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help me put together bass reamp rig
Old 17th May 2006
  #1
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electric's Avatar
 

help me put together bass reamp rig

hi all,
i want to get a bass reamp setup going for mixing (and also tracking). i have an ibp but have not been putting it to use from a bass reamping perspective. I was planning on reamping in my vocal booth which measures 4'x4'. currently my mic collection is a u195, 4033, and sm57.

what amp/speaker combo would work well for this size of a room? would the mics i have work well for this application? lets pretend price is no object.

also i had a friend who suggested creating a "speakerbox" that essentially was a speaker mounted in a cabinet with a mic mounted inside so you could use it as repeatable effect. do any of you guys reamp bass like this? if so do you like the way it works. or do you think a manual setup is better?

any feedback appreciated.

regards,
electric
Old 17th May 2006
  #2
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IMO, in a 4' x 4' space you are basically screwed as far as bass goes. Maybe you should use DI for lows, and use a very small speaker for mixing in some mids only.

If you had a much bigger space, you could use the reamp sound for lows, and roll off the unwanted room sound, and maybe use the DI for mids and highs.

There are so many different approaches to recording bass, all valid for different styles.
Old 17th May 2006
  #3
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electric's Avatar
 

how big a space minimum do you want minimum for recording lowend bass? i have plenty of other rooms but they are not as noise isolated as the vocal booth. they are just ordinary rooms in the house. (busy street is nearby too). i really want to experiment with low end reamping along with the mids.
Old 18th May 2006
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger
IMO, in a 4' x 4' space you are basically screwed as far as bass goes. Maybe you should use DI for lows, and use a very small speaker for mixing in some mids only.

If you had a much bigger space, you could use the reamp sound for lows, and roll off the unwanted room sound, and maybe use the DI for mids and highs.

There are so many different approaches to recording bass, all valid for different styles.
How do you get any highs from a DI? Or am I just misunderstanding what some people mean by DI? For me, the main reason to feed a DI signal through something would be to get some highs in there like an amp has but are missing from DI.

Thanks.
Old 18th May 2006
  #5
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There's a big choice of DI's out there ... and generally you would use a passive DI with an active bass, and an active DI with a passive bass. Some are very clean and transparent (Avalon U5, Radial JDI, JDV) and others offer some tubey harmonics (GT Brick, REDDI, Valvtronics, etc), and some attempt to model an amp, with eq and distortion etc (Sansamp, MXR M80), or you have basic bass preamps or amps with a line out ....

A speaker cab actually filters out a lot of highs (unless you crank up the horn), and generally can't cope with the low fundamentals. So a DI will always give you a fuller range than a speaker & mic.

So you can use a DI as your total solution, or just use it to compensate for what the speaker/mic can't get. (Whether that be lows, or highs, or mids - whatever).
Old 18th May 2006
  #6
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Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

I built a bass box that sits about 50' from the control room. At first I used it at the tracking stage but recently have been using it at mix. It is a very heavy particle board contraption that has it's walls filled with sand. It is on heavy duty casters to eliminate as much floor coupling as possible. Size is approx. 4' wide by 6' long and 5' high. It is treated on the inside with 703 and sonex. I send a line level send from my board and drive a Mosfet amp (about 60 watts) into a hartke 4x10 cabinet. The mic is a neumann U47fet. Been using it quite a bit recently.
Old 18th May 2006
  #7
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frans's Avatar
What do you need from the reamped-signal? Fullrange? Grit? The sound of a cone moving some air? Minimal would be a suited headphone strapped over your mic. If you only need some dirt you could use any small combo amp, get mids and some highs from it and use the lows from the signal (D.I.ed?) you feed your amp with - in any case check for phase, the "phase" button on the mixer/pre will not be of much use here as you will run into phasey mids/highs that are better fixed by putting the mic a few inches/millimeters nearer or more far away from the speaker. Loop the signal and with your headphones (with both signals) position the mic until it sounds right. In some cases it will be easier if you search the best position for the mic with pink noise. If you want a bold fullrange signal from your reamp you're in to more work/cost.
I use a 1970's Hiwatt and a TraceElliot 15" in a 20x60' room - from nice to Motorhead with the twist of a knob...and a THD hotplate to back off 4 or 8 dB. Don't forget to try a few places where you set up the cab, bass will be different all over the place...and you could also put the cab on a crate or something to get it off the ground.
Old 19th May 2006
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger
There's a big choice of DI's out there ... and generally you would use a passive DI with an active bass, and an active DI with a passive bass. Some are very clean and transparent (Avalon U5, Radial JDI, JDV) and others offer some tubey harmonics (GT Brick, REDDI, Valvtronics, etc), and some attempt to model an amp, with eq and distortion etc (Sansamp, MXR M80), or you have basic bass preamps or amps with a line out ....
OK, then yes y'all use "DI" to refer to more than I would have thought applicable. I was thinking more just a straight impedance conversion and nothing else, which I guess would be your passive DI option. I don't see why you would want to reamp a signal sent through something like a sansamp(already processed) though, as opposed to the signal that went into the sansamp(unprocessed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger
A speaker cab actually filters out a lot of highs (unless you crank up the horn), and generally can't cope with the low fundamentals. So a DI will always give you a fuller range than a speaker & mic.
I realize that a speaker rolls off above like 6k or so(which I doubt is ever needed anyway), but an AMP boosts what I am referring to as highs(2-5k or so) - both guitar and bass amps. That sansamp is bright, more like a good amp, whereas my bass trough a passive DI is quite dull.

Thanks.
Old 19th May 2006
  #9
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vernier's Avatar
Quote:
What do you need from the reamped-signal? Fullrange? Grit? The sound of a cone moving some air? Minimal would be a suited headphone strapped over your mic. If you only need some dirt you could use any small combo amp, get mids and some highs from it and use the lows from the signal (D.I.ed?) you feed your amp with - in any case check for phase, the "phase" button on the mixer/pre will not be of much use here as you will run into phasey mids/highs that are better fixed by putting the mic a few inches/millimeters nearer or more far away from the speaker. Loop the signal and with your headphones (with both signals) position the mic until it sounds right. In some cases it will be easier if you search the best position for the mic with pink noise. If you want a bold fullrange signal from your reamp you're in to more work/cost.
I use a 1970's Hiwatt and a TraceElliot 15" in a 20x60' room - from nice to Motorhead with the twist of a knob...and a THD hotplate to back off 4 or 8 dB. Don't forget to try a few places where you set up the cab, bass will be different all over the place...and you could also put the cab on a crate or something to get it off the ground.
Wow, never heard of some of that stuff.

frans! ...write a book (bout recording), I want to read it!
Old 22nd May 2006
  #10
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frans's Avatar
As I have no formal training and generally no clue at all compared with the big guys....no, I won't write a book. That said I already wrote a book or two...I am a daytime cartoonist/comicbook artist. If you want to read a good book about recording: "mixing with your mind" by Michael Paul Stavrou. If you plan to buy just one book - this is it. He's the man.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #11
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electric's Avatar
 

hi frans -

kind of looking for the whole gammit. would like the options of being able to add full range bass, mids,sound of cones moving some air, or grit/harmonic content. (essentially to have options.) however the full range option is not going to work due to my limited space. i might be able to build a bass box a la mr sutton when it get some time. (which translates to never)

without the space i will probably just keep using sansamp to add a little bit of harmonic content underneath and maybe reamp a headphone or lowfi speaker for some mids. (want to put ibp to work )

great suggestions everyone. thanks.

electric
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