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shoegazer vocal effects processor?
Old 17th May 2006
  #1
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deaddeaddead's Avatar
 

shoegazer vocal effects processor?

im looking for a reverby voice box like shoe gazer / new wave bands such as guitaro, jesus and mary chain, and my bloody valentine.

helphelphelp
Old 17th May 2006
  #2
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frontierfran's Avatar
 

...

pump vox through an EH holy grail pedal.
Old 17th May 2006
  #3
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deaddeaddead's Avatar
 

thanks, i'll try that out, i was looking to buy one anyway for guitar.

anyone know what those bands actually use though? is it all studio equiptment or can you get processors for live performance?
Old 17th May 2006
  #4
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frontierfran's Avatar
 

...

well, im a shoegazer myself. when i think of modern verbed out shoegazer stuff I think of Doves...and I guess you can run vox through any verb send on a board...just use more of it. pretty washed out, thinly EQ'd vox is what comes to mind.
shoegazer music is very mid humped. (just run a cd through an analyzer)...
there's never such thing as too much reverb.

I dont know...but ill venture what you hear on CD's was perhaps some nice eventide stuff...high end lexicon perhaps....
Old 17th May 2006
  #5
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hmmm that makes sense, i never thought of the mid-hump before,
do you think pairing a reverb pedal with a EQ pedal like BOSS makes would work ok? you can boost the mid frequencys on those EQ pedals ,right?
Old 17th May 2006
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaddeaddead
thanks, i'll try that out, i was looking to buy one anyway for guitar.

anyone know what those bands actually use though? is it all studio equiptment or can you get processors for live performance?
Studio stuff usually.

Second if the house has any FX then the band is at the mercy of whatever house has...

If they get big enough, the band has their of FX.

But MBV didnt really have reverb drenched vox....neither Jesus and MC.

Slowdive, though....Neil could really put it on ....

Regards,
David
Old 17th May 2006
  #7
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frontierfran's Avatar
 

...

sure. I mean, you can build a live vocal rig like my lead singer did. he had a dodgy art tube pre in there, with a lexicon and an eq module. but then your getting into MIDI triggering.

I am not sure the mic signal would fare too well going from Mic-->verb pedal-->eq pedal--> then to the board pre (via a snake, most likely)
couldnt hurt to try though...
Old 17th May 2006
  #8
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well maybe reverb isnt the best word, but JAMC definatly sounds drenched in something, and the girls voice in MBV as well, on loveless and isnt anything. i dont know if you've heard GUITARO before, but their vocals are my absolute favorite, check out an album called FUTURA BLACK. never got too into slowdive before, i'll give em another shot.
Old 17th May 2006
  #9
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okey, so how would you recommend boosting the middle? i have a mixer, so theres hi-mid-low knobs, but that only goes so far.
Old 17th May 2006
  #10
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Alex Niedt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deaddeaddead
never got too into slowdive before, i'll give em another shot.
Slowdive's my favorite shoegaze band by far. Jesus and Mary Chain songs all sound alike to me (and very basic, predictable progressions over and over), and while I respect MBV, it's really not something I find that enjoyable to listen to.
Old 17th May 2006
  #11
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deaddeaddead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Niedt
Jesus and Mary Chain songs all sound alike to me (and very basic, predictable progressions over and over), and while I respect MBV, it's really not something I find that enjoyable to listen to.
to each their own i guess, sometimes i have a sweet tooth for predictable pop songs though, and they did it perfect... at least on psychocandy. the other stuff i find boring.
Old 17th May 2006
  #12
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Try using a good cheap reverb, like an old Pioneer model from the 70's that were made for home stereos. They give you a unique washed out spring reverb sound. You can get them on Ebay for $20-40 bucks.
Old 17th May 2006
  #13
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deaddeaddead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomo1234
Try using a good cheap reverb, like an old Pioneer model from the 70's that were made for home stereos.
okay, forgive me for the stupid questions, but im confused. your talking about an amp, right? i love the amp i have so im not looking for a new amp with reverb in it. im looking for something, it doesnt have to be a pedal, or small, that i can use with xlr and/or quarter inch cable input and output to my amp. i just dont know what that something is or what to call it! i dont really want the new digital stuff, id like an old string coil tank or whatever they were called. i just dont have a clue how they work or what their inputs/outputs are.
Old 17th May 2006
  #14
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octatonic's Avatar
The cynic in me says you probably need a pair of converse, no body fat and poor motor control.
Seriously- Kevin Shields from MBV used this rig:

Old 17th May 2006
  #15
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deaddeaddead's Avatar
 

y'all're jus' tryna confuse me mo'
Old 18th May 2006
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deaddeaddead
im looking for a reverby voice box like shoe gazer / new wave bands such as guitaro, jesus and mary chain, and my bloody valentine.

helphelphelp
OK, I'll tell you my favourite trick. It requires a few different things but the results are STELLAR in my opinion.

First, you will need a cheap spring reverb like the Roland/Boss RV-100 (cheap on ebay).
Second, you will have to get a multitrack reel to reel (preferably) with optional noise reduction. A "Tascam 34" 4-track will be perfect - otherwise TEAC, Fostex etc. DX-4D noise reductions usually come with the Tascam 34 on ebay or you can find them individually.

OK, record a mono mix of your song onto track 1 at full 15ips speed.
record your vocal onto track 2 with a pretty warm sound - don't EQ it all. Record them through the spring reverb with the desired amount of reverb and make sure NOISE REDUCTION is ON whilst you are recording.

Now you've done the take, go back and listen with the noise reduction taken off.
Holy ****! My favourite sound - It's not easy to describe. For an example, go to our myspace page at www.myspace.com/belleswillring and listen to this sound on the vocals of "The Coldest Heart".

PS we are a psych / shoegaze band.
Old 18th May 2006
  #17
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mdbeh's Avatar
 

The vocals on Loveless were doubled many, many times. There's an old Tape Op interview with Kevin Shields where he goes into a decent amount of detail about it.
Old 18th May 2006
  #18
As far as MBV goes, the thing that sticks out about those vocals to me is that they sound like they were tracked very close to the mic, sung at a very quiet level and with the pre cranked.

I was going to say chorus or phase also, but it seems that effect may be coming from the many double tracks that mdbeh mentioned.

Loveless is a phenomenal album.

JAMC are great too, and they may have used a similar miking technique, but I hear lots of verb on those vocals.
Old 18th May 2006
  #19
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Saucyjack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdbeh
The vocals on Loveless were doubled many, many times. There's an old Tape Op interview with Kevin Shields where he goes into a decent amount of detail about it.
I remember reading that as well.
Some songs on Loveless had like 20-30 vocal tracks and Shields say there are only a few guitar tracks on most songs.

I bet more time was spent in vocal tracking/comping/mixing than you think
Old 18th May 2006
  #20
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deaddeaddead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neukoln
OK, I'll tell you my favourite trick.
that sounds pretty stellar indeed, it really works for your music. im looking for something even thicker though.

everyone please check out this link and listen to some tracks off of futura black, all their songs were recorded at home, but the production sounds amazing. i want these vocals sooo bad:

http://guitaro.ca
Old 18th May 2006
  #21
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]

But MBV didnt really have reverb drenched vox....neither Jesus and MC.
Really? I listen to "Psychocandy" and "Loveless" a few times a week, and I sure think I hear a TON of reverb."

hey, deaddeaddead, what's your budget, how are you gonna use it (live, recording, etc.), if you're recording, how are you recording (tape, daw, what daw, etc.) If we know this stuff it can be a lot easier to steer you the right way.

max
Old 18th May 2006
  #22
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deaddeaddead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
what's your budget, how are you gonna use it (live, recording, etc.), iIf we know this stuff it can be a lot easier to steer you the right way.
max
i really just want it for live sound, when i comes time to record, i'll figure it out then, dont worry about the budget, if something will give me what im looking for, i'll save up and pay what i have to pay... or go into debt.

yeah i hope this thread doesnt turn into an argument about definitional shoegaze... i wasnt claiming that all the bands i listed were shoegaze, more talking about aspects of vocal effects that i personally identify as shoegaze.

ps, i've played guitar for almost ten years, but im real new to mics, so its okay to talk to me like a kid, i really dont know anything. if anyone has mic suggestions as well, that would be helpful. right now im just using a condenser mic that a friend gave me, running it thru a mixer to a speaker, i tried doing what "frontierfan" (above) suggested, passing thru a reverb pedal—the boss version—but i really am not satasfied with boss' reverbs, they sound very thin and fake to me.
Old 18th May 2006
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
Really? I listen to "Psychocandy" and "Loveless" a few times a week, and I sure think I hear a TON of reverb."

hey, deaddeaddead, what's your budget, how are you gonna use it (live, recording, etc.), if you're recording, how are you recording (tape, daw, what daw, etc.) If we know this stuff it can be a lot easier to steer you the right way.

max
For JAMC, I was thinking of them as a whole, but yes Psychocandy has a good amount of reverb. I really dont hear alot of reverb on MBV and Loveless in particular...in fact his stuff sounds very intimate and soft...which seems to imply less reverb. But that is just how I hear it.

But back to the OP, you just need to get a multi FX vocal box that will allow a nice smathering of reverb, echo and some phase/chorus.

Dial to taste.

There are some boxes now that will send a line level balanced signal to the board so you dont really have to worry about degrading the sound.

Digitech has one for $200 that I am sure will sound fine for live work. And it has presets to cover the many styles shoegaze vox has...from drenched to fairly clean and initmate.

As we have seen here on this thread, there is no one definitive shoegaze vocal effect.

Good luck,
David
Old 18th May 2006
  #24
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deaddeaddead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Digitech has one for $200 that I am sure will sound fine for live work. And it has presets to cover the many styles shoegaze vox has...from drenched to fairly clean and initmate.
Do you mean this one?


Cause i tried it and it was poopy. it has that reverb preset, but the other ones are all so gimmicky! seems great if you want to sound like alvin and the chipmunks, or an alien, or maybe a demon. heh. i think i need something more professional.

try going to musicians friend, under vocal effects, all these things come up... but i dont know if theyre any good or how they work. i dont want to just buy something and not be 100% sure that its what i need.
Old 19th May 2006
  #25
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I remember reading somewhere way back that many of the vocals that sound female or at best 'androgenous' on the MBV stuff are often Kevin doubling himself with his full voice and/or falseto. Also - as far as I understand - when mixing Loveless Kevin and Alan Moulder would split several doubled takes so that one take has a hi pass masking the lows of the take, whereas another take will have a low pass masking the highs.
Old 19th May 2006
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaddeaddead
Do you mean this one?


Cause i tried it and it was poopy. it has that reverb preset, but the other ones are all so gimmicky! seems great if you want to sound like alvin and the chipmunks, or an alien, or maybe a demon. heh. i think i need something more professional.

try going to musicians friend, under vocal effects, all these things come up... but i dont know if theyre any good or how they work. i dont want to just buy something and not be 100% sure that its what i need.
Yeah...that is a start....you can get better, but you have to pay for it.

The TC Helicon is nice...but it is $800.

Good luck,
David


Good luck,
David
Old 19th May 2006
  #27
Gear Maniac
 

Quadreverb+ cheap as chips and still a bit of a fav of mine. grungey hissy but kinda lush as well
Old 19th May 2006
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisstoff
Quadreverb+ cheap as chips and still a bit of a fav of mine. grungey hissy but kinda lush as well
just did a quick ebay search... are the GT or the 2 the same as the PLUS? what are the inputs/outputs? 1/4? or XLR?

thanks
Old 20th May 2006
  #29
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cookiekixx's Avatar
 

gazey verbs

for most of my more shoegazey mixing i have gotten alot better vox verb using cheaper verbs and pedals. for the cass mccombs "prefection" album, he and i battled about which verb to use on the vox. cass wanted the leadvox to go through this little boss pedalboard and i prefered using the lexicon 480. after a few days i gave in and tried the boss pedalboards lofi digital reverb and that was the point that the entire record came together. another winner has been the yamaha spx90 and the ensoniq dp4................

just about every band i am working with at the moment has some sort of guitar pedal that is essential to the sound of their vocals on record. i cant say who uses what, but i can say that the most popular three vox pedals are the line6 green pedal for echo, the holy grail reverb for verb and the boss supershifter for a harmonizer.

hope this sheds some light! ttyx, chris coady
Old 20th May 2006
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ101
I remember reading somewhere way back that many of the vocals that sound female or at best 'androgenous' on the MBV stuff are often Kevin doubling himself with his full voice and/or falseto. Also - as far as I understand - when mixing Loveless Kevin and Alan Moulder would split several doubled takes so that one take has a hi pass masking the lows of the take, whereas another take will have a low pass masking the highs.

AH. That's a nugget I've been looking for...
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