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Front Of Kick Mic
Old 16th May 2006
  #1
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Rednose's Avatar
Front Of Kick Mic

I have another drum session this week.
I want to get the Subkick, but don't have the coin this week.
What are some good Front Of Kick Methods?
The band doesn't have a big budget, so i don't wont to bother with drumagog to trigger the kick.
I get a real nice kick tone with a D 112 or Audix D 4.
Just need some more body so i don't have to trigger and it will sit better in the mix without cranking it.
I have the following mics available after I use the rest on the kit.
D112
Audix D 4
PL 20
Blueberry
NT 3
Sm 57, 58
My 2nd engineer also suggested making a tunnel with a heavey blanket and putting a mic at the end.
What about Phase? Don't have the IBC yet either.
Thanks!
Old 16th May 2006
  #2
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try the NT3 may or may not work for your application but you will be surprised where that mic can work.
if you dont want to spend forever moving the mic back and forth to get the best phase relationship between 2 mics just nudge them before you mix.
Old 16th May 2006
  #3
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guid0's Avatar
 

I'd go with the D112 up close and the Blueberry or NT3 as "front of kick".
Make sure you follow the 3 to 1 rule so as to minimize phase issues. IOW, if the D112 is set 1 foot away from the kick, the FOK mic should at least be 3 feet away.
Old 16th May 2006
  #4
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pkautzsch's Avatar
 

Basically, ANY speaker is capable of adding some LF boomy sound to the BD, this doesn't necessarily have to be the Subkick. So if you have some speaker available, just connect the two ends of the coil to Hot and Cold, and you're done for a bit of BOOMMM. The Subkick is of course somewhat optimized and thus more controllable.
In any case, I'd get a good BD sound from the "normal" miking though and use subkick-style stuff for special effects.
Old 16th May 2006
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guid0
I'd go with the D112 up close and the Blueberry or NT3 as "front of kick".
Make sure you follow the 3 to 1 rule so as to minimize phase issues. IOW, if the D112 is set 1 foot away from the kick, the FOK mic should at least be 3 feet away.
3 feet away from what? The beater? The Front head? The Center of the drum?

Just wondering.....

-Z-
Old 16th May 2006
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco
3 feet away from what?
3 feet away from wherever you put the "closer" mic. you just need to maintain the ratio between the two mics.

conversely, put the mics wherever you get the best sound from the kick and adjust for phase with delays or line it up in the DAW after the fact. this is typically what i do.


cheers,
wade
Old 16th May 2006
  #7
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Chris Parsons's Avatar
 

The RE20 will do a great job of captureing the "boom" 2 feet out or so.
Old 16th May 2006
  #8
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RUSCO's Avatar
I have great results with a beta 57 actually . Seems to handle the bottoms well and is defined enough for the ' click ' .RE20 is also great for that application.
Old 16th May 2006
  #9
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

i tend to like LDC's for FOK. YMMV.
TTYL!
Old 16th May 2006
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrface2112
3 feet away from wherever you put the "closer" mic. you just need to maintain the ratio between the two mics.
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the 3 ft rule (which I generally ignore in favor of simply listening...) takes into account the mic's distance from the sound source. In the case of close micing a kick drum, this "source" is a pretty vague concept....I suppose the beater/head could be considered the source, but the front head and shell itself also produce a fair amount sound, so I'm not really clear how the 3 ft rule would apply here. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just analyzing the concept.....

Quote:
conversely, put the mics wherever you get the best sound from the kick and adjust for phase with delays or line it up in the DAW after the fact. this is typically what i do.
Bingo!

-Z-
Old 16th May 2006
  #11
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vernier's Avatar
Right, 3:1 (ratio).
Old 16th May 2006
  #12
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octatonic's Avatar
I use a D112 or Beyer M88 inside and a U147 about 3 ft away.
(Sometimes a D112 inside, M88 on the beater side and the 147 a foor away.)
Sometimes I'll use a 'tunnel', as you say, sometimes not.
It usually sounds great.

With the mics on that list I'd suggest The D112 or the D4 inside and the Blueberry 3 ft away.
I'd not use NT3- I have both the original NT3 (from early 90's) and the latest one- completely unsuitable.
The PL20 is a cheapy RE20 isnt it? Might work- dont know it.

Doing it this way you shouldn't have phase issues.
Old 16th May 2006
  #13
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Try an EV RE-20 on the front (outside). I love it.

For extra control and punch, try an sm58 inside aimed at the beater, and mix to taste.
Old 16th May 2006
  #14
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Rednose's Avatar
Thanks for the tips guys!
I really like the one about nudging the front kick mic, forgot about that one.
When you nudge it, do you try to line up the wav files exactly with the track inside the kick, or do you offset it a bit?
I do have a NS 10 subwooofer laying around in working condition.
Maybe I should spend and hour farting with that, I'm just not that technically inclined.
Any links to do-it-yourself subkicks?
Thanks again
Old 16th May 2006
  #15
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Rednose's Avatar
The PL20 is a cheapy RE20 isnt it? Might work- dont know it.

Actually, the PL20 is the vintage RE20.
The only difference to my knowledge is the RE20 has more gain.
I'm pretty sure the PL20 is more sought after.
Old 16th May 2006
  #16
I would go for a condencer to pick up that sub bass (as you dont have a royer 121 my fave)..

Have a chum move the mic (have your hand on a phase flip button or plug in as you do this) untill you find the best spot for it.. Wave to him when he found the best place & get him to tighten the mic stand so it stays there!

Tips re nudging..

Dont do it by 'eye' - you are dealing with SOUND, not paint by numbers....
Do it by "ear" - nudge and listen untill you gradually find the sweet spot
Have a phase reverse plug in to hand - as you will be wanting to flip phase often untill you find the best nudge location / phase setting.
Old 16th May 2006
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednose
When you nudge it, do you try to line up the wav files exactly with the track inside the kick, or do you offset it a bit?
no

and

Well, possibly

See above
Old 16th May 2006
  #18
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Rednose's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
no

and

Well, possibly

See above
Thanks Jules!
Phase is still something very hard for me to determine, but I'm working at it.
Old 16th May 2006
  #19
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Raw-Tracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednose
I do have a NS 10 subwooofer laying around in working condition.
I have used the NS10 woofer before. I think that is what actually inspired the Sub-Kick. Basically, the setup I used was the woofer mounted to some sort of a piece of a guitar stand or something. You want to get the woofer right up close the resonant head. Then there was a speaker wire coming off of the speaker leads that was terminated in a 1/4" TS plug. I plugged that into a DI box and sent it to a mic pre. Flip the polarity a few times on the preamp to see which way is best. Worked like a champ. Loads of low end.

I've also heard of folks using a 15" bass guitar cab in a similar fashion.
Old 17th May 2006
  #20
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ethan_c's Avatar
 

I like a combination of a U195 or ifet7 and a D112. Just for the heck of it today I put a kick in the vocal booth facing a corner and put a U195 about 5" in front. Man, talk about bass! As a matter of fact I had to check my chain a couple of times to see if everything was correct. There is little to no attack whatsoever but the bass is unreal!
Old 17th May 2006
  #21
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Matti's Avatar
In practise, just listen while positioning the mics. I don`t think there is any
theory about this. Your "click mic" might be on the beaters side -outside- aswell etc.
Matti
Old 17th May 2006
  #22
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Alexi's Avatar
 

do you guys use the fok mic focused on the kick sound or as a mic in front of the kit?

I am in a similar situation......recordings coming up, i've got a senn.602 and a subkick but since i am going for the glyn john (or however you want to call it) technique i want to use another mic in front of the kit.............


i don't want to steal this thread.thou'
Old 17th May 2006
  #23
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echorec's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by erick21
I have used the NS10 woofer before. I think that is what actually inspired the Sub-Kick. Basically, the setup I used was the woofer mounted to some sort of a piece of a guitar stand or something. You want to get the woofer right up close the resonant head. Then there was a speaker wire coming off of the speaker leads that was terminated in a 1/4" TS plug. I plugged that into a DI box and sent it to a mic pre. Flip the polarity a few times on the preamp to see which way is best. Worked like a champ. Loads of low end.
Nice, have to try this. I also have a spare NS10 woofer somewhere.
Old 17th May 2006
  #24
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guid0's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexi
do you guys use the fok mic focused on the kick sound or as a mic in front of the kit?

I am in a similar situation......recordings coming up, i've got a senn.602 and a subkick but since i am going for the glyn john (or however you want to call it) technique i want to use another mic in front of the kit.............


i don't want to steal this thread.thou'
I usually use it as "Front of kit" instead of "front of kick". One way or another, it's still a FOK mic heh
Old 17th May 2006
  #25
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carival's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednose
The PL20 is a cheapy RE20 isnt it? Might work- dont know it.

Actually, the PL20 is the vintage RE20.
The only difference to my knowledge is the RE20 has more gain.
I'm pretty sure the PL20 is more sought after.
The difference is that the pl20 was marketed through Electro Voice's "contractor"or "commercial" line (can't remember what they called it). The re20 was in their "recording/broadcast"(whatever they call it) line. Different section of their catalog, different price, different finish, same sonic attributes. I've used them interchangeably for years. They both do a fine job recording a bass drum.
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