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Fender Twin Amp & Synths (Hard and Soft)
Old 16th May 2006
  #1
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Fender Twin Amp & Synths (Hard and Soft)

I have read the thread regarding recording the ultimate Rhodes sound. It was suggested using the Fender Twin Reverb Amp provided the ultimate sound. I have witnessed this done in the past, with an actual Fender Rhodes keyboard. The results were exceptional!

I am interested in using the Fender Twin Amp with Hardware and Software synths. I want to track the synths with mic's and/or direct box connected to speaker output, trying to capture the Twins tube magic...

Is this an appropriate use of the Fender Twin Amp?

Are there any issues involved in using the Twin for this application?

Are the output signals from hardware/software synths appropriate for direct plug-in to the Twins inputs?

Will the signals/frequency range damage the Twins circuits?
Old 16th May 2006
  #2
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I've gigged running my laptop using Emagic's EVB3 (Hammond modeller), EVP88 (Electric Piano modeller), Native Instruments B4 and M-Tron along with my tube guitar amp (a Vox AC15tbx) and it's been great. I sometimes gigged with my guitarist's vintage pre-CBS Fender Super Reverb.

I just plugged direct in and kept the volume a little lower as line level is much stronger than a guitar signal. If I had to do it all over again I'd go out of my laptop/audio interface into a Re-Amp/X-Amp kind of box and then into the guitar amp but even without it, if you kept the volume at a lower level you're fine.
Old 16th May 2006
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestral
If I had to do it all over again I'd go out of my laptop/audio interface into a Re-Amp/X-Amp kind of box and then into the guitar amp but even without it, if you kept the volume at a lower level you're fine.
Yes, I was looking at the Radial X-Amp re-amping device. But was wanting to pull this off without adding extra devices to the signal path and spending more $$$'s...

So ultimately, these amps are appropriate for guitar and synth signals?
Old 16th May 2006
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixxed Up
Yes, I was looking at the Radial X-Amp re-amping device. But was wanting to pull this off without adding extra devices to the signal path and spending more $$$'s...

So ultimately, these amps are appropriate for guitar and synth signals?
The way I see it, if it sounds good and doesn't blow stuff up, it's "appropriate". So yes, it's appropriate
Old 16th May 2006
  #5
Stevie Wonder has used modified twin reverbs with a hard hammer Rhodes for recording. The amps were fitted with E-120 JBL speakers. Better results can be obtained with speakers with high frequency drivers included. I still prefer recording them direct as no speaker is even enough.

Jim Williams
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Old 16th May 2006
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
I still prefer recording them direct as no speaker is even enough.
I suspected as much. So it seems that the best application would be the amps speaker output into a direct box. still capturing the amps tube magic...

So while it is possible to keep output volume at "Low" from the line level device/hardware synth, prior to input into amp, what benefits does the re-amping device provide in this application?
Old 16th May 2006
  #7
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i just bought an early 70's' twin reverb with blackface mods for my Rhodes.
if you noticed how the twin reverb can really bring out the bark in the lower register, it does this with softsynths as well. Check out Chick Corea's "Light as a Feather" for a great example of that bark. I just love it. The suitcase speakers can't get near it, though the super satellite speakers can.

i sent a sequence playing Alphakanal's Automat synth plug-in to the twin and it barked just as i expected it.

i think you'll be pleased running synths through the Twin, just keep the volume going in low.
Old 17th May 2006
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay
i just bought an early 70's' twin reverb with blackface mods for my Rhodes... i think you'll be pleased running synths through the Twin, just keep the volume going in low.
Yeah! congrats on the recent score! I was recently reading your thread...

I'll be trying this out today, with low volume (no re-amping device)
btw- using a '65 TWIN REVERB reissue (if that matters)
Old 20th May 2006
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixxed Up
Yeah! congrats on the recent score! I was recently reading your thread...

I'll be trying this out today, with low volume (no re-amping device)
btw- using a '65 TWIN REVERB reissue (if that matters)
4 days later....
so how'd it go?
pleased or displeased with the results?
Old 21st May 2006
  #10
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I did not use it on the Rhodes sound, but on a harmonium patch from the Swar Plug-in. I found a sound that I really liked alot - using the speaker output into direct input (no mic's). but I have not completed all the tracking or the Mix as of yet...

No doubt about it, this is a force to be reckoned with! I will be using this with my recordings from now on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay
as for rhodes + twin, if i want that gritty corea/herbie sound i'll crank the input to get it to break up a bit, but adjust that to taste obviously.. crank the bass all the way, scoop out the mid almost entirely (about 1 or 2 on the knob) and the treble gets adjusted based on the song more than any other knob. if theres alot of high register playing, i'll usually tame it to about 5 to 7, but for mid and low registers cranking the high along with the low really gives you the bark when it breaks up. My rhodes usually has the tone knob all the way up (bright), but they're all different. Whats bright on my tone knob may be dull on yours, or vice versa.
Vibrato, usually 60-80% intensity and 1 to 2 on speed but it depends on the song.

and a touch of the spring reverb is always welcome, though usually in more subtle dosages.

for more tonal/classic stuff. i wont drive the preamp as hard, and the low/high eq isn't nearly as extreme. So basically all the knobs that are at extreme settings in the last description would be at more modest settings (3 to 6, all around). Vibrato and rhodes on-board tone to taste, once again. Also, occasionally for a more classic sound its best to go direct. I really like the Groove Tubes Brick DI, and UA 610 DI when that is the case.
btw- I really appreciate these methods you have posted about recording techniques for the Rhodes
Old 21st May 2006
  #11
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Did you try with sampled rhodes like the Scarbee's one?
How do you work in this case?
Is the final recorded result much different than what the VKFX can produce?
Old 21st May 2006
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixxed Up
I have read the thread regarding recording the ultimate Rhodes sound. It was suggested using the Fender Twin Reverb Amp provided the ultimate sound. I have witnessed this done in the past, with an actual Fender Rhodes keyboard. The results were exceptional!

I am interested in using the Fender Twin Amp with Hardware and Software synths. I want to track the synths with mic's and/or direct box connected to speaker output, trying to capture the Twins tube magic...

Is this an appropriate use of the Fender Twin Amp?

Are there any issues involved in using the Twin for this application?

Are the output signals from hardware/software synths appropriate for direct plug-in to the Twins inputs?

Will the signals/frequency range damage the Twins circuits?
Just don't get a Twin Amp before you have heard a Traynor YCV80... The Traynor is a little brighter and the harmonic bloom is just unbelievable! I have compared these two live with maybe 10 guitars. I found a Japanese tele that was sooooo sweet through this amp, so overall the Traynor YCV80 was much more attractive sounding. I think a Fender Rhodes would sound awesome through this amp! Also try a Roland JC-120 Jazz Chorus. I would really like to have these two amplifiers available for guitars and keyboards. I can't even imagine what it would sound like to run these in parallell...!
Old 22nd May 2006
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xist
Did you try with sampled rhodes like the Scarbee's one?
For the Rhodes sound, I am using either the LoungeLizard3Vsti softsynth or the EMU Vintage Keys module (sample based). I have not tracked anything yet but have played around with the Vintage Keys into the '65 TWIN REVERB. I really like the sound of this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainbowStorm
Just don't get a Twin Amp before you have heard a Traynor YCV80...
I already own the '65 TWIN REVERB (for many years). But thanx for the tip!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestral
If I had to do it all over again I'd go out of my laptop/audio interface into a Re-Amp/X-Amp kind of box and then into the guitar amp
Why would you do it this way, if doing it again? Does the reamping device add anything to this application?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener
Because the quality of your D/A conversion will suffer. You have to try if that really bothers you. I think it depends on the amount of level reduction.
Is this what the issue is, when dealing with softsynths? and what reamping devices remedy (quality of the D/A conversion)?
Old 22nd May 2006
  #14
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Hi Mixxed Up,

The Reamp device would bring the hotter line level signal to a guitar level signal. It's not completely mandatory but nice to have.

btw, how do you find the 65 Twin Reverb reissue? I owned one and personally hated it. I bought it sight unseen thinking it'd sound as good as a real blackface Twin Reverb and it doesn't. It doesn't even sound as good as a silverface imo. Ended up with a Vox AC15tbx (the British made half a Vox AC30) and haven't looked back.
Old 22nd May 2006
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestral
The Reamp device would bring the hotter line level signal to a guitar level signal. It's not completely mandatory but nice to have.
Thanx for the info! What input do/did you usually go in (1 or 2)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestral
btw, how do you find the 65 Twin Reverb reissue? I owned one and personally hated it. I bought it sight unseen thinking it'd sound as good as a real blackface Twin Reverb and it doesn't. It doesn't even sound as good as a silverface imo.
I have never found the '65 TWIN REVERB to be lacking in anyway. Always sounds clear and powerful. I pretty much just tweek the Hum Balance adjustment screw every now and then.

I know of a couple locals with the silver faced TWIN. They have changed out tubes, speakers, etc to try to improve the sound. One has actually sold off his TWIN to move into the "beautique" amps, that run at lower wattage.

btw- Does anyone know which tubes to pull out to cut the wattage to 1/2 or 1/4? I understand that it is possible to run this amp at lower wattage (and lower volume) and still get the good results, without hearing loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestral
Ended up with a Vox AC15tbx (the British made half a Vox AC30) and haven't looked back.
I'd love to have one of those to play around with, as well!
Old 22nd May 2006
  #16
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Its amazing what you can run through a twin. TRY EVERYTHING! Not that you always want to run it but what sounds good will amaze you.... Its almost like an effects box to me- another color. Mic drums through it......thumbsup
Old 23rd May 2006
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay
so how'd it go?
pleased or displeased with the results?
I've had sometime to play around with this...

The loungelizard3 vsti just sounds so groovy! Not sure I won't mic up the TWIN after all...

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold
Its amazing what you can run through a twin. TRY EVERYTHING! Its almost like an effects box to me- another color.
Yeah, I'm just beginning to discover this!
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