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Anyone here work on a Rush album?
Old 16th May 2006
  #31
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SHIRK's Avatar
I can't wait to get in to the studio to pull out the Rush. Haven't listened to the CD's for quite awhile. These guys were a huge influence on me. I couldn't get enough. I think I bought every album up through Counterparts.
Old 16th May 2006
  #32
Gear Nut
 
Open Sky's Avatar
 

I have to agree about the drum sound on Caress of Steel. I just listen to that drum intro from "Lakeside Park" and try to figure out how to get my kit to sound like that. So warm and real. Perfect! I love those guys!

Anyone know what kind of console they used to record any of their stuff from that period?
Old 16th May 2006
  #33
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Blast9's Avatar
http://www.musictoyz.com/articles/chopalex.php

here's a useful resume of stuff Alex has used! I'm sure he once used Loft 450 delays for his chorus sounds... but I can't find anything about this... nor can I find anything about Limelight!

[EDIT] BINGO! found something! "That was my Strat with a Shark neck--made by a Canadian company--the Lawrence humbucker in the bridge, and a Floyd Rose trem. I tracked the rhythm guitars through an original Boss chorus into two Marshall 2x12 combos. I improvised the solo, and used a rack-mounted Loft chorus. The amps were at the usual volume--11! I stood in the control room and we cranked the monitors to get feedback. We regenerated the last note with an Eventide delay to keep it going. That solo is made up of all those pulls and drops with the Floyd, and they give it its unusual, elastic quality. It's my favorite recorded solo."

Found that at plexi palace
Old 17th May 2006
  #34
Gear Addict
 
wildstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daryllh
Maybe, but whos cell phone number ends in 2112? hehe
Dude that is SO unfair!

I'd buy that number off you.

I am not joking.

One of my favorite things to do on a rainy Sunday: pick a project (building cables, caulking the bath tub, organizing the bookshelves, etc.), and play at concert volume and in this order:

2112
A Farewell to Kings
Hemispheres
Permanent Waves
Moving Pictures

If time is short, 2112 will do.



I'm curious how they recorded the synths for that era of albums. Direct? If so, through what? Or fed into some kind of amp and speaker? Synths just don't get any better sounding than that.
Old 17th May 2006
  #35
Here for the gear
 
Mr Rich's Avatar
 

Ah yes, Rush... I love it.

I came to Rush years after the great albums were made, but the excellence still managed to shine through. I love the old stuff, but as a keyboard player, it was the early 80s era that appealed to me most; all that fat Oberheim and Taurus stuff... Just grand.

Thanks for the reminder; I'll be digging out the CDs now.
Old 17th May 2006
  #36
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildstar
and play at concert volume and in this order:

2112
A Farewell to Kings
Hemispheres
Permanent Waves
Moving Pictures

If time is short, 2112 will do.
Yes, great list!

I first saw them during the 2112 tour in 1976/77. heh And about 8 more times after that. The last time was about 1993. What a band!
Old 17th May 2006
  #37
Gear Head
 

To me their opus was Counterparts, sonically. And I'm partial to the songs also although I know it's not considered a classic in the Rush catalog. If I was in a hard rock band and had to pick a producer, Shirley would be at the top of the list.

Wildstar, love the avatar.
Old 17th May 2006
  #38
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by numchukskillls
To me their opus was Counterparts, sonically. And I'm partial to the songs also although I know it's not considered a classic in the Rush catalog. If I was in a hard rock band and had to pick a producer, Shirley would be at the top of the list.

Wildstar, love the avatar.
Shirley destroyed Dream Theater as a producer. While I liked what he did with Rush on Counterparts...Kevin DOES have his limits.

By the way, any Rush dorks want to get a 2112 phone number, all I did was pay the 36 dollars to change my number with Cingular.

I think Neil's drums WEREN'T coated in Vibrafibe until Permanent Waves. I will have to check on that. His old Slingerlands were probably not maple as well...perhaps mahogony. He used those up until Hemispheres.
Old 17th May 2006
  #39
Gear Addict
 

Actually, Neil has stated that the Vibrafibing was in the drums starting at A Farewell to Kings. While this probably isn't as important as the heads he was using, it may have a little to do with the overall tone.
Old 17th May 2006
  #40
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wildstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by numchukskillls
To me their opus was Counterparts, sonically. And I'm partial to the songs also although I know it's not considered a classic in the Rush catalog. If I was in a hard rock band and had to pick a producer, Shirley would be at the top of the list.

Wildstar, love the avatar.
Thanks dude. Being a Rush nerd and being a Robotech nerd aren't too far from each other, unfortunately.

Ah well. The geek shall inherit the Earth. Isn't that how it goes?

I LOVE Counterparts. It's what got me into Rush. I was in high school when that came out, and it wasn't too hard to make the jump from Alice In Chains and Soundgarden to Counterparts. Once I was hooked, it was easy to make the bigger and much more satisfying jump to 2112, Hemispheres, etc.

Nothing since Counterparts has had great songs and good sonics IMHO. What's up with that? What different choices have they made since then to suck the life and testoserone out of their recordings? Is it really all about Shipley?
Old 17th May 2006
  #41
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Blast9's Avatar
Anyone know what Ged was plugging into back in the day, before the Ashly preamp?

I know he plugged into Sunn amps in the 70's, and you always see Ampeg 8x10 cabs in live piccies.
Old 17th May 2006
  #42
Gear Head
 

I read that Kevin Shirley went super simple with Geddy's setup on Couterparts and had him use only an SVT head. No clean DI mixed with dirty DI and whatever other stuff he's doing these days. To me it was the best bass tone he's had in recent memory. I don't like his current approach at all and I think it's one of the reasons their new stuff doesn't sound good. I'm sure mixing all those signals sounds huge but I don't think it works well in context even WITHOUT overdubbing multiple lines. It was an intersting idea but it seemed overindulgent. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with that.

Wildstar, it's funny how you mentioned AIC and Soundgarden also as I'm also huge fans of those bands. Moreso than Rush actually. Counterparts did seem a bit more raw than previous cds and that had to be partly influenced by all the hard rock bands out at the time.
Old 17th May 2006
  #43
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Blast9's Avatar
Cool... never hear that album. My personal fave tones are on Hemispheres --- really ballsy - Not as much grind as Moving Pictures but more punchy I think, and less "splatt" on the attack.
Old 18th May 2006
  #44
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wildstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blast9
Cool... never hear that album. My personal fave tones are on Hemispheres --- really ballsy - Not as much grind as Moving Pictures but more punchy I think, and less "splatt" on the attack.
If I could record and mix rock drums that ended up sounding like Neil's kit on 2112, I'd die happy.
Old 18th May 2006
  #45
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wildstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by numchukskillls

Wildstar, it's funny how you mentioned AIC and Soundgarden also as I'm also huge fans of those bands. Moreso than Rush actually. Counterparts did seem a bit more raw than previous cds and that had to be partly influenced by all the hard rock bands out at the time.
Have to agree with that. Bad ass riffage was in the air. King's X put out Dogman at just about the same time as Counterparts, and if that ain't bad ass riffage, I don't what is.

Maybe Rush should work with Michael Wagoner! The latest King's X album is so freaking awesome, their best in years. I wonder what he could do for Rush??
Old 18th May 2006
  #46
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dtucker's Avatar
 

Whatever Rush does next they need to do it the way they used to. Write, rehearse, preproduction, hit studio, lay tracks in an organized fashion, and use a real engineer.

The reason why Vapor Trails sounded so bad was because most of it was tracked by Geddy and Alex. They're great musicians, but not necessarily great engineers. Not to mention the years of touring and how that has affected their hearing.

Have someone else engineer it so they can concentrate on the song. As long as they do that they'll put out a great product. Always.
Old 18th May 2006
  #47
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wildstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtucker
Whatever Rush does next they need to do it the way they used to. Write, rehearse, preproduction, hit studio, lay tracks in an organized fashion, and use a real engineer.

The reason why Vapor Trails sounded so bad was because most of it was tracked by Geddy and Alex. They're great musicians, but not necessarily great engineers. Not to mention the years of touring and how that has affected their hearing.

Have someone else engineer it so they can concentrate on the song. As long as they do that they'll put out a great product. Always.
I didn't know that those two did the engineering! Ack! One listen was enough for me, I didn't even glance at the liner notes.

Maybe a fan petition would work?
Old 18th May 2006
  #48
Gear Head
 

I vote for Brendan O'Brien.
Old 18th May 2006
  #49
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wildstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by numchukskillls
I vote for Brendan O'Brien.
That's funny. I was going to say Brendan O'Brien too, but thought that everyone would think that a stupid idea.

Well it's a great idea. I second it. So how about that petition?
Old 18th May 2006
  #50
Lives for gear
 

All I wish to say here...

Is that Rush has been as much a part of my musical journey, teenage spirituality, teenage growth, and pure inspiration as any band ever.

Geddy...was a personal hero for years..

Thank you brothers for such a fantastic Journey...!!

2112
Caress of Steel
Moving Pictures
Farewell to Kings
Hemispheres
Power Windows

They are so dear to my heart....

Much Respect,
Old 18th May 2006
  #51
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtucker

The reason why Vapor Trails sounded so bad was because most of it was tracked by Geddy and Alex.
Well, that, and the songs suck.
Old 18th May 2006
  #52
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No4PCs's Avatar
Agreeded

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtucker
The reason why Vapor Trails sounded so bad was because most of it was tracked by Geddy and Alex. They're great musicians, but not necessarily great engineers. Not to mention the years of touring and how that has affected their hearing.

Have someone else engineer it so they can concentrate on the song. As long as they do that they'll put out a great product. Always.
Yes, i think Geddy and Alex tracking is something like Steve Harris editing Iron Maiden videos.
My opinion is Permanent Waves and Moving pictures the top for Rush studio texture sounds .
Old 18th May 2006
  #53
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great
Well, that, and the songs suck.

I thought 'one little victory' esp the drum part, was one of the best intros to an album they had.

There are a couple good songs on that album. Though, I will admit, I have listened to it about 3 times since I bought it (the day it came out)
Old 18th May 2006
  #54
mds
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daryllh
Shirley destroyed Dream Theater as a producer. While I liked what he did with Rush on Counterparts...Kevin DOES have his limits.
That's funny, I think Falling Into Infinity is one of the more listenable DT records. After they started producing themselves they got so self indulgent I just kinda gave up on them. I can't take much past Metro II, though I pretty much worshipped I&W through FII when I was 16-20...

Mike
Old 18th May 2006
  #55
mds
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great
Well, that, and the songs suck.
Amen to that...how many of us wanted so bad for that record to be good...I think the best thing out of Rush post Roll The Bones is the Victor record, and thats only cause it's kinda funny...
Old 18th May 2006
  #56
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mds
That's funny, I think Falling Into Infinity is one of the more listenable DT records. After they started producing themselves they got so self indulgent I just kinda gave up on them. I can't take much past Metro II, though I pretty much worshipped I&W through FII when I was 16-20...

Mike
It's the most non-DT album of theirs. And a 'piss off' to Kev for bringing in Desmond Child to co-write a song. Yuck! Shirly and Sony almost destroyed that band. Damn close call. I will admit, there are songs on FII that I love. As a DT 'prog album', it doesn't cut it and you can tell that something was sucked out of the band during that period of recording.

I didn't mind Kev's mixing, though you rarely heard the bass. I don't think he was a good producer for a band like that. It's obvious that Portnoy and Petrucci are great producers...since all the albums after FII are there's and there's alone.
Old 18th May 2006
  #57
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mds
Amen to that...how many of us wanted so bad for that record to be good...I think the best thing out of Rush post Roll The Bones is the Victor record, and thats only cause it's kinda funny...
I'm a fan of Test for Echo and 'My Favorite Headache...IF we are going solo projects. Even the Burning for Buddy I is good.
Old 18th May 2006
  #58
mds
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daryllh
I'm a fan of Test for Echo and 'My Favorite Headache...IF we are going solo projects. Even the Burning for Buddy I is good.
Yeah, TFE is prety cool, and Ged's solo effort had its moments...for some reason Victor just stuck out in my head because it is so non-Rush like for the most part...
Old 18th May 2006
  #59
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mds
Yeah, TFE is prety cool, and Ged's solo effort had its moments...for some reason Victor just stuck out in my head because it is so non-Rush like for the most part...
I see that. I loved Victor. It was so far out there for Rush fans. You really got a deep vision of what Al was really like as a musical personality. Such an ecclectic person. I don't think most people knew that by seeing him on stage.

Ged's album sounded much better. Being newer helped. having Matt Cameron drum on most of it helped too!! thumbsup I like that album for some of the hooks and drum parts. Moreso than victor.
Old 18th May 2006
  #60
mds
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daryllh
It's the most non-DT album of theirs. And a 'piss off' to Kev for bringing in Desmond Child to co-write a song. Yuck! Shirly and Sony almost destroyed that band. Damn close call. I will admit, there are songs on FII that I love. As a DT 'prog album', it doesn't cut it and you can tell that something was sucked out of the band during that period of recording.

I didn't mind Kev's mixing, though you rarely heard the bass. I don't think he was a good producer for a band like that. It's obvious that Portnoy and Petrucci are great producers...since all the albums after FII are there's and there's alone.
I have about 60 minutes of outtakes from the FII sessions and there are definitely some tense moments on it. For me DT started to lose my interest when the songs got super long and the "how fast can we play a b minor scale" thing started lasting 5 minutes instead of 2. In reality it probably has more to do with me moving on from being semi-obsessed with Petrucci as a guitarist than the band being any different.

I do still get a kick out of Awake from time to time. My favorite record, mostly because of how facinated I was with it when it came out (coffee can snare sound aside). I still think Voices and Scarred are the bands best moments...

On last FII note: Sherinian was always my favorite keyboard player in that band. I loved his crazy sounds and the timbre he added to the band. Rudess just never did it for me, I guess...

Mike
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