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Ebay dispute--item damaged in shipping
Old 15th May 2006
  #1
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feyshay's Avatar
 

Ebay dispute--item damaged in shipping

I need your advice on something. I don't do much on Ebay.
I had a pair of MAudio BX5's away from my main studio. They worked perfectly. They had absolutely no damage (not even a scratch). The picture I posted on Ebay was of them in their pristine condition.
I sold them for the meager amount of $144. The buyer did not make payment for greater than 2 weeks. Then they were sent and received by him on May 4. He emails me by ebay today (5/15), saying that he just unpacked them and that one of the speakers has a dented tweeter and does not work. (He has "doubts about their packing.")
I packed these very carefully (with the help of my wife, even). They worked, now one doesn't? He did not pay for insurance. Any advice on what I should do?
Old 15th May 2006
  #2
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rolo's Avatar
 

did you offer to use insurance? if you did and he opted not to pay for insurance... you are not at fault. if you did not offer to ship with insurance in the auction, then i would say you were responsible. just my 2 cents
Old 15th May 2006
  #3
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Kris's Avatar
Bummer, not that it would help you now, but in the future, ALWAYS insure. For $144 speakers it would have probably added no more than chump change to the total shipping cost.
Old 15th May 2006
  #4
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UPS and FEDEX shipments are already insured for $100
Old 15th May 2006
  #5
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cap217
UPS and FEDEX shipments are already insured for $100
But you have to be able to make a claim that will be considered legitimate by the company.

Gonna be hard to do in this case, considering the courier is no longer present, etc.

Some claims are more cut and dry, like when the package goes missing.

Btw, usually a dented tweeter works about the same as a non-dented one.

Here's what I think you should do: find out what the tweeter is, and order it from Speaker City in Studio City Should cost ten or fifteen dollars. Send the guy one.

Speaker City (818) 846-9921

I think you're gonna have to find out what the tweeter is. Or send the guy measurements and a photo. Anyone have a pair of those that they can pull the tweeter out of for a photo?
Old 15th May 2006
  #6
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Hey, I found a picture of the front of the tweeter, and it looks totally standard. I don't think it's gonna be a problem to find a replacement. If that's the dude's only gripe, then how can he not be happy with that.
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Old 15th May 2006
  #7
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feyshay's Avatar
 

The odd thing that I find is that not only is the tweeter dented, but the same speaker does not work at all. I am obsessive-compulsive with the care of my equipment (even MAudio stuff).
He was offered insurance (automatically on the invoice). It was sent USPS. I don't know why he didn't add the insurance for a few bucks. That always boggles my mind. I have never bought anything from someone without insurance.
I know it went in that box in perfect condition. I question this kid's reliability because I was not paid for greater than 2 weeks (had to send him 2 or 3 reminders), and then he does not "open" the box for 11 days.
He might be able to pull that tweeter out with some tape or a paper clip with super glue, but that won't fix his claim that the speaker does not even work.
Old 15th May 2006
  #8
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TheReal7's Avatar
 

His loss then. Time for him to live and learn!
Old 15th May 2006
  #9
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Tell him that without insurance, it's FOB.

And tell him to check the tweeter. You can give him the number to the speaker place if you feel like it. How long has it been since the auction closed? I think you can only get negative feedback after ninety days. Stall him until then.
Old 15th May 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Advise him to file a claim with Fed Ex. They won't even come out to look at the box or anything. You'll receive the standard $100 insurance check in the mail in about 3 weeks.

It's a small amount they won't even sneeze over. My brother works for Fed Ex.
Old 16th May 2006
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

For what it's worth. FedEx will not blink if the claim is 50.00 or under. They just pay it. I know this from experience many moons ago. That was when everything was already insured for 50.00. Now that the new minumum standard insurance (the free insurance) is 100.00, it may still be the case, even at this new, higher dollar amount.


So far, FedEx has never damaged one of our shipments, ever.


Good luck,
Old 16th May 2006
  #12
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus13
I've sold on E-Bone/Fee-Pay since 1998.

PP is useless for problem/fraud resolution, and imho, does not "earn" the 3% they charge.

kk in pdx
This is indeed the gospel thruth.
My ebay rating is around 950, 100% positive. Sadly, if you don't appease this guy, you may get a negative. Whether you are in the right or not is irrelevant.
Old 16th May 2006
  #13
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DeepSpace's Avatar
 

Sure sounds like the buyer may be misrepresenting the situation. Maybe he really didn't open the box for 11 days. Or maybe he misused/abused the speakers and now wants you to pick up the tab.

If you're sure that the speakers left you in good order and were well packed - and given that insurance was offered but declined - I agree with others here that the buyer's claim by rights is against the shipping company, not against you.
Old 16th May 2006
  #14
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Albert's Avatar
 

Was there any damage to the box the speaker was shipped in? You should ask him to send you a picture of the speaker and the box.

Enough time has passed that it is really borderline whether you should take responsibility for the speaker issue. He had the speakers for almost two weeks and anything could have happened in that time. Perhaps do the paperwork with the shipper for the $100 automatic insurance.

Another thing you should always do is make a note of the serial number of any gear you are selling, before shipping it. Then include that in the auction description, or email correspondence with the winner after the auction ends. It might discourage people that like to do the switcheroo.
Old 16th May 2006
  #15
Gear Addict
 

About insurance.. I was always under the impression that if you offer insurance and the buyer declines.. if the piece gets f'd in delivery, it's the buyer's tough luck. But, this apparently isn't so, according to the fleabay "community" :

"Yes, they can require insurance to be purchased, and write it right into the invoice, so the item is not paid for until the insurance is paid for. But, once they ship the item, they are responsible whether the buyer bought the insurance or not. If there is a loss, it is theirs."

http://answercenter.ebay.com/thread....=1147687239623

And every thread I've read there about insurance says the same thing; Seller is responsible for loss regardless.

So, wtf?
Old 16th May 2006
  #16
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

i always make insurance mandatory.
it is not that much and it is insurance, not that i am to keen on insurance companies mind you as i think they are regularly screwing us all in one form or another.
Old 16th May 2006
  #17
Gear Nut
 

I almost ran into a similar situation with a computer that I sold on ebay recently. I knew I sent the guy a working computer, but he claimed it wasn't working. I had him doing all sorts of basic troubleshooting (fearing the mobo or processor had bit the dust) when it turned out he wasn't using the correct power switch. Point of the story is, make absolutely sure this kid is hooking up the speakers correctly. Maybe he's doing something wrong that's really simple to correct?

For future listings, you can now add a return policy to your listings. Just factor in something like a 15% handling charge for all returns, and make the buyer pay for return shipping. That way, even if you get screwed, you don't get TOTALLY screwed...
Old 16th May 2006
  #18
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

I just insure it no matter what, even if it is out of my pocket. It doesn't have anything to do with fault here, if you want positive feedback make him happy. If a negative point doesn't bother you, make him deal with it.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 16th May 2006
  #19
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GP_Hawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel DuBay
For what it's worth. FedEx will not blink if the claim is 50.00 or under. They just pay it. I know this from experience many moons ago. That was when everything was already insured for 50.00. Now that the new minumum standard insurance (the free insurance) is 100.00, it may still be the case, even at this new, higher dollar amount.


So far, FedEx has never damaged one of our shipments, ever.


Good luck,
I've had 2 claims over the years. Both well above $300.xx worth of damage. I took 3 weeks before I made the claim. The damage was inspected and I was paid out, no hassle. Do this, that way the guy will either get a tweeter or get called on his bs.
Old 16th May 2006
  #20
Lives for gear
 

I don't know if this helps, but we had a set of BX5's that, after about 5 month use, tore a woofer. No explaination for it, a crack appeared running the radius of the cone. I am in Canada, I emailed MAudio Canada, explained that they were my studio partner's(who was out of town) and inquired about a replacement cone (price and how to get one). The next day I received an email confirming the model and asking for my address. I received a new woofer cone in about five days, no questions asked, no proof of purchase or anything. Nice guys at MAudio. I sent an email to inquire about advising the head of their tech team about the quality of service, who replied right away letting me know he was the one I was dealing with the whole time. Great service there. If a new tweeter is not under warenty, it would be most likely quite cheap I imagine.
Old 16th May 2006
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
Trancetones's Avatar
 

I both buy and sell gear on e-bay. Only had one bad experience, but I avoided it being costlier than relisting. Here is my recommendation for e-bay sales.
  • "I only ship UPS ground to US or Canada" This protects you against chargebacks for unreceived items.
  • "I don't ship International" Same reason as above.
  • "Paypal Only." This helps avoid slow payment via check or MO.
  • "Payment due in two weeks" Hey, sometimes someone won't pay. Ebay has a mechanism for getting a portion of your listing fee back, it works. Forget about filing negatives, just put that person on your "don't allow bids to this buyer list" and move on. Make up the loss of relisting fees by getting a better deal on purchases. You will still end up better in the end.
  • "I insure all items for the sale price" Self explanatory. Set this up when you sell to automatically add insurance and shipping.
  • "Buyer pays for packaging and shipment" This will discourage some buyers, but don't worry about them. Good buyers want it packed right. I use the same authorized UPS Store shipment center for all my shipments. They packed it, they shipped it and they are liable for damage. If you stay on good terms with your shipment center they will back you 100% when you make the claim. I add a 6 dollar handling fee and select the correct weight and size for the shipping calculator. I have never had someone dispute the shipment cost. I always refund over the shipment cost. Buyers love getting money back and paypal also refunds you the fee on the refund amount.
Old 16th May 2006
  #22
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feyshay's Avatar
 

"A follow-up on my situation:
There is some very good advice here, and I hope others find this useful. I will definitely follow this advice for the future.
On communicating with the buyer, I don't think he is scamming me, but I could be wrong. He said he was traveling in response to why the package was not opened for 11 days.
I asked him to clarify if the power unit is not working (is there a light up front, is the power button engaged?). I also asked him to send me a picture of the box, although he did not say the box had any damage. I believe that the tweeter was probably damaged by him, since I was very careful with this.
He says that the box used was too small. There was a good cushion, and they were packed tightly--no movement. I'm thinking that the box was probably dropped and that there was a jarring. I'm not sure if the original box would have made a difference.
The money doesn't mean that much to me. I'd almost just have paid him the money just to save myself the time. But, at least I'm learning for the future.
I offered to pay for the cost of damage to the speaker for repair. I'm also thinking of just paying him half of the $144 that he paid for the speakers. He would then have to send the speaker to MAudio for repair. It would be a waste to ship both speakers across country for $33 again, when the damaged speaker was only bought for $72. $72 is really nothing--it's just the principle. I'll probably just cough up that money and call it a day.
Old 17th May 2006
  #23
Gear Head
 
Mark O's Avatar
 

a vacuum cleaner is perfect for popping out caved in tweeters

sounds like he might have put his finger in it taking it out of the box...

or... wow I wonder what would happen if....
Old 17th May 2006
  #24
mwd
Gear Maniac
 
mwd's Avatar
 

The majority of Ebay Sellers don't get it. Thinking that bold disclaimers like "can't be responsible" or "no insurance at your own risk" will get them off the hook if something happens.

It won't.

They don't realize that insurance is for the protection of the seller.

You own that product until it is received and accepted by the buyer. Look at the transaction in it's most basic legal form. Ship out a perfect widget, widget gets damaged (or lost), seller received item "not as described" or not at all. It doesn't matter why or who did it or whether they purchased insurance or declined. They have a base level claim for fraud.

If you have ever noticed professional distributors say like Musicians Friend or NewEgg or any pro online or catalog company never gives you the option of buying insurance or not? Because they know if something happens it's their problem.

They charge you for the shipping and insurance. The insurance protects them.

What Ebay sellers don't get is that the buyer is not purchasing insurance he is reimbursing the seller for it. The seller is the one that is entering into a contract with the shipper when he ships the item.

Don't ever ship without insurance.
Old 17th May 2006
  #25
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwd
The majority of Ebay Sellers don't get it. Thinking that bold disclaimers like "can't be responsible" or "no insurance at your own risk" will get them off the hook if something happens.

It won't.

They don't realize that insurance is for the protection of the seller.

You own that product until it is received and accepted by the buyer. Look at the transaction in it's most basic legal form. Ship out a perfect widget, widget gets damaged (or lost), seller received item "not as described" or not at all. It doesn't matter why or who did it or whether they purchased insurance or declined. They have a base level claim for fraud.

If you have ever noticed professional distributors say like Musicians Friend or NewEgg or any pro online or catalog company never gives you the option of buying insurance or not? Because they know if something happens it's their problem.

They charge you for the shipping and insurance. The insurance protects them.

What Ebay sellers don't get is that the buyer is not purchasing insurance he is reimbursing the seller for it. The seller is the one that is entering into a contract with the shipper when he ships the item.

Don't ever ship without insurance.
dead on!
Old 17th May 2006
  #26
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwd
The majority of Ebay Sellers don't get it. Thinking that bold disclaimers like "can't be responsible" or "no insurance at your own risk" will get them off the hook if something happens.

It won't.

They don't realize that insurance is for the protection of the seller.

You own that product until it is received and accepted by the buyer. Look at the transaction in it's most basic legal form. Ship out a perfect widget, widget gets damaged (or lost), seller received item "not as described" or not at all. It doesn't matter why or who did it or whether they purchased insurance or declined. They have a base level claim for fraud.

If you have ever noticed professional distributors say like Musicians Friend or NewEgg or any pro online or catalog company never gives you the option of buying insurance or not? Because they know if something happens it's their problem.

They charge you for the shipping and insurance. The insurance protects them.

What Ebay sellers don't get is that the buyer is not purchasing insurance he is reimbursing the seller for it. The seller is the one that is entering into a contract with the shipper when he ships the item.

Don't ever ship without insurance.
Roger that.
Old 17th May 2006
  #27
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Kestral's Avatar
 

Yup, Dingo pretty much nailed it. When I sell stuff on eBay, I ALWAYS ship with insurance and tracking number. I don't care if the buyer (or potential buyer) whines like stuck pig, it's being shipped insured. And for that I have perfect feedback on eBay and no hassles.
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