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Neil Young's New Protest Album
Old 15th May 2006
  #31
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Are you saying then that he has become an American citizen? Because if you're going to protest "our country's" war, I would think you should be a citizen of that country.
Just curious re: your stand on guest workers/immigration.....

Should the thread be moved?
Old 15th May 2006
  #32
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
I could be wrong on this, but I think I read in an interview a couple months ago that Neil Young is an American citizen. He is still a god either way!!!!!
Old 15th May 2006
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O
Just curious re: your stand on guest workers/immigration.....
Don't get me wrong, I love Neil Young. And I am fine with his protesting US involvement in Iraq. Everyone has the right to speak out against what they believe is wrong.

But I heard him refer to it as "our country" and I found that odd, as I believed he was a Canadian citizen.

I may be wrong.

As for workers/immigration, whoo-boy!! We'd have to move the thread.

-gil
Old 15th May 2006
  #34
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
Neil isn't an american citizen, but he's lived there for most of his life and has American children. He has just as much a right to be calling them "our boys" when he refers to American soldiers -- his children are Americans.

Discrediting his perspective based on his citizenship seems a little bit petty to me man. You don't have to agree with his politics, but if that's the case, there's other things to criticize him for.

I for one agree with his politics, but that's not what this thread was supposed to be about... I started it to discuss the sonics and the musicality of it. Political discussion is so useless these days, especially on a non-political forum.
Old 15th May 2006
  #35
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vernier's Avatar
It's what folksingers did ...Pete Seeger, The Weever's, Bob Dylan, Peter Paul & Mary, Berry McGuire, and a dozen others ...sang things that made people think.
Old 15th May 2006
  #36
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Not sure if Neil's naturalised or not... but he's married to an American citizen, his kids are US citizens, he has lived and worked in the US for over 40 years, been paying US taxes for over 40 years... been a contributor to untold US charities (both financialy and his own time)... That's not even taking into account the musical contributions he made to another tumultuous period in our (The United States) history... He may not be "American", but he's certainly "Americana".

I kinda think he's earned the right to say "our country" if he likes... don't you?
Old 15th May 2006
  #37
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IMO, the minute "your country" and "your soldiers" left it's/their home soil, invaded another country, you opened yourself (your country) to criticism from foreigners. You can't invade another country for no apparent reason (or reasons based on plain and simple LIES) , slaughter THOUSANDS of their citizens, and then say to the world "mind yer own fukkin business". tutt

Damn. I broke my own rule. Never debate politics with total strangers over the internet.

Oh yeah.....Neil.
Regardless of the politics, I'm looking forward to hearing this record.

-Z-
Old 15th May 2006
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray
Political discussion is so useless these days, especially on a non-political forum.
You're right. But the thread was titled "Neil Young's New Protest Album", as oppsed to "Neil Young's New Album".

I just was making a small point, I have said more than once that I love him and I respect his right to protest. I too want to hear the album, I have every other record he has come out with, not about to stop now!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco
IMO, the minute "your country" and "your soldiers" left it's/their home soil, invaded another country, you opened yourself (your country) to criticism from foreigners.
Please read what I said - it's not the criticism I was complaining about.

-gil
Old 16th May 2006
  #39
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Are you saying then that he has become an American citizen? Because if you're going to protest "our country's" war, I would think you should be a citizen of that country.
If you follow that logic then we as americans had no right to complain about anything Saddam was doing, let alone invade his country.

Or are you an Iraqi citizen?
Old 16th May 2006
  #40
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Not ONE actor had any words of support for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they had plenty to say about Bush.

-g

Do some research, Gil. I've heard & read many of the antiwar comments made by actors & others in the media and nearly all of them say they support the troops & would like to get them out of harm's way.
Old 16th May 2006
  #41
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berolzheimer
Do some research, Gil. I've heard & read many of the antiwar comments made by actors & others in the media and nearly all of them say they support the troops & would like to get them out of harm's way.
Including Neil, actually. He's very sympathetic to the posted soldiers, lyrically.

That said, could we start talking about the sonics, if there's anything left to talk about? Gil is right, I really shouldn't have used the word "protest" in the title. It's really a fabulous sound, I think, so as more people hear it, I think it would be interesting to continue to digest it's musicality. A significant opposing force in the "modernized" and "over-compressed" age.
Old 16th May 2006
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berolzheimer
Do some research, Gil. I've heard & read many of the antiwar comments made by actors & others in the media and nearly all of them say they support the troops & would like to get them out of harm's way.
I meant to say "at this year's Oscar telecast". Edited to reflect my intention.
Old 16th May 2006
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berolzheimer
If you follow that logic then we as americans had no right to complain about anything Saddam was doing, let alone invade his country.

Or are you an Iraqi citizen?
Okay, pay attention and stay with me now...

I (we) have a right to complain about anything I (we) find objectionable. But in complaining about Saddam and his actions in Iraq I would not say "I don't like what he is doing over there in our country" if I were NOT an Iraqi citizen.

We Americans have no right to call Iraq "our" country if we are not citizens of Iraq. And IMHO, Neil Young and Celine Dion should not refer to America as "their" country if "they" are not citizens of it. I don't see what is so outrageous about that opinion.

If Neil is a citizen of the US, or a dual-citizen, then fine. But if he has not bothered to seek US citizenship, then (again, IMHO) his protests should be more in the vein of " I think your war sucks" or "I think what your country is doing is wrong".

I'm not the only one who thinks so - here is the Washington Post's take on it, published on Neil Young's website:

'This just in: Neil Young is "looking for a leader to bring our country home." ( And yes, by "our country," the singer, a Canadian citizen, means the United States, where he's lived for decades.)'

http://www.neilyoung.com/lww/lww_greatdebate.html

-g
Old 16th May 2006
  #44
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
Ahh Christ, screw it, Jules, just toss this in the "shoot the breeze" category I guess.
Old 16th May 2006
  #45
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Bottom line is that if this wasn't a Neil Young record none of you would probably even give it a second listen. More often than not, when an artist is already famous for past great music we tend to like almost anything new they do.

Like Michael Jackson for example: he could make a recording of himself taking a *hit with a microcassette recorder in his bathroom, and his fans would line up to buy it and say it was the greatest thing they ever heard.

Same with Neil. He could do almost anything now and people will find a reason to like it -- just because he's Neil the legend!
Old 16th May 2006
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray
It's really a fabulous sound, I think, so as more people hear it, I think it would be interesting to continue to digest it's musicality. A significant opposing force in the "modernized" and "over-compressed" age.
Matthew -

Sorry for veering the thread off your intended topic. Can we post a new one called "Neil Young's 'Living With War' CD - sound opinions" or something like that?

-gil
Old 16th May 2006
  #47
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
I have no problem with him protesting our involvement in Iraq. I love Neil Young and have been listening to his music since the late 60's.

This isn't his first work of protest songs (Ohio, Soldier, etc.) I only take issue when someone says "our country" when they are not a citizen of it, as the soldirs who are fighting over there are.

I would like to see us get out of there as soon as possible, but it is life or death for them every day, while rich rock stars and rich actors sit back in the comfort of the wealthy lifestyles and protest "our" involvement in the war. Not ONE actor at the Oscar telecast this year had any words of support for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they had plenty to say about Bush.

Some of these actors were the same ones who said they'd leave the country if Bush got re-elected. Yeah, right.

-g
You would be amazed how many of the US soldiers serving in Iraq right now are not US citizens.

Citizenship is not a requirement for military service.
Old 16th May 2006
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyrock
You would be amazed how many of the US soldiers serving in Iraq right now are not US citizens.

Citizenship is not a requirement for military service.
Yikes!! That's NOT what I said!! IMHO, citizenship is required to call a country your own, especially if you are going to slam that country when its leaders do things yoiu don't agree with.

It's the same in my opinion with voting - it is hard to take someone seriously when they complain about the leadership (Local, State, or Federal) and when you ask them who they voted for, they say "I didn't vote" or "I don't vote".
Old 16th May 2006
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Please read what I said - it's not the criticism I was complaining about.
I know. I wasn't directing my little rant at you in particular.

Matthew - Sorry about shiiting on your thread....

Peace out.

-Z-
Old 16th May 2006
  #50
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
Eh, shiit happens guys.
Old 16th May 2006
  #51
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vernier's Avatar
Quote:
Can we post a new one called "Neil Young's 'Living With War' CD - sound opinions" or something like that?
Thread is fine so far w/different reactions musically and socially.
Old 16th May 2006
  #52
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Okay, pay attention and stay with me now...

-g
No problem staying with you, Gil, and in fact I think we agree on many things. But the issue of the technicality of citizenship- I just think it's kind of superficial. Ok, maybe he didn't pass the little test and take the little oath in front of a judge, but he's lived & worked in this country for 40 years, made contributions to our society that most of us can only dream about, and paid more taxes here than probably most of us put together. I think those things weigh more heavily than the citizn ritual.
I also think that it's time that we start looking beyond national borders. We're beginning to see that the world is a smaller place than we usually think, in that our behavior here effects everyone everywhere, and vice versa. We need to start thinking of ourselves as citizens of the world, as members of humanity, first, and of our nationality second. Your neighbors aren't just next door, they're on the next continent. Human rights belong to every human, they don't vary depending on where one was born.
Old 16th May 2006
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berolzheimer
But the issue of the technicality of citizenship- I just think it's kind of superficial. Ok, maybe he didn't pass the little test and take the little oath in front of a judge...
Technicality - superficial - "little" test - "little" oath...

If it means that little you, than I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

-g
Old 16th May 2006
  #54
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vernier's Avatar
I don't think he made the album to direct attention to himself ..he's relaying a message.
Old 16th May 2006
  #55
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Technicality - superficial - "little" test - "little" oath...

If it means that little you, than I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

-g
I guess so. The things that matter to me aren't the rituals, they're what you do with your life, the contributions you make to improving society, making us better, improving our understanding of things, and leaving a better world for our kids.

The rest is BS.
Old 16th May 2006
  #56
Gear Head
 

Saying what needs to be said:

Canada, since electing the Bush-of-the-North Mr. Harper, is now fully involved in Afghanistan and gearing up with urban warfare training to take over roles in Iraq.

"Our Country" will soon be known as the "free-trade zone of the North American Union" - like the new Europe, a region without borders.

Sign up for the free Mexican interns!
heh

And I'm very symapthetic to any patriotic individual, military and non-military, who sign up to defend an ideal and find themselves being used as expendable pawns for big corporate interests that have little at all to do with patriotism.


Tell it like it is and Keep on Rockin' in the no-longer-free world Neil!




s
Old 16th May 2006
  #57
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
But I heard him refer to it as "our country" and I found that odd, as I believed he was a Canadian citizen.

-gil

Meh... I'd just be happy that someone living in America displays such passion and devotion for their adopted country... whether they are technically a citizen or not. Wouldn't you find it more odd if he was singing ballards about Canada, yet rarely ever sets foot in it?
Old 16th May 2006
  #58
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ted demen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart

Irrespective of what side of the isle you may put yourself on,
???

actually, its: youre either against the war, or youre a racist fu.ck.tard idiot.
Old 16th May 2006
  #59
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Interesting thread, but I' don't understand the "show support to our troops" statements... I mean I know they are risking their lives, but fukk they have chosen to be in the army...There's no conscription in the US any more right? This is not WW2 or Vietnam...If you want to become a profesionnal soldier, you should know what it implies: the business of killing people and the risk to be killed.
(As well as a morbid fascination for weapons and authority...)
Maybe some poor bastards join the army for other reasons: Like Free "education", love of uniforms...hum...male company?
I mean I deplore all loss of human lifes in this sordid conflict but if I had to choose between the life of a civilian and someone who choose to be a profesionnal soldier....

What do you think? Sorry for the slight hijack.....I've listen to the Neil Young album though !
Old 16th May 2006
  #60
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by baikonour
Interesting thread, but I' don't understand the "show support to our troops" statements... I mean I know they are risking their lives, but fukk they have chosen to be in the army...There's no conscription in the US any more right? This is not WW2 or Vietnam...If you want to become a profesionnal soldier, you should know what it implies: the business of killing people and the risk to be killed.
(As well as a morbid fascination for weapons and authority...)
Maybe some poor bastards join the army for other reasons: Like Free "education", love of uniforms...hum...male company?
I mean I deplore all loss of human lifes in this sordid conflict but if I had to choose between the life of a civilian and someone who choose to be a profesionnal soldier....
In some cases that's true, in many others however it's a question of economics. Many low income kids see no other job possibilities. Our kids are undereducated and desperate, just the way the corporate & military honchos like them.
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