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Mic for recording classical viloin
Old 28th February 2012
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Mic for recording classical viloin

Need a mic for recording a superb classical violinist.
I have been suggested the SE4400a and a AT 4047.
I tried an AKG C1000s which brought out the lower strings nicely but there was too much sibilence on the high E string.
I also want the mic for other applications such as flute, voice, maybe classical guitar and mandolin.

Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks
Old 29th February 2012
  #2
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

For the sources you want to record, you'd want two mics: a neutral response mic like a ADK A6 or one of the KEL mics (HM2?) for violin and mando, and a brighter mic like the AT4047 for voice and classical guitar. The AT4047 can also sound good on mandos and such, but could be a little too in-your-face for classical violin, depending on the context. If it's unaccompanied solo violin, you might want to record in stereo, or with the MS (mid-side) configuration, which requires two mics, one of them featuring figure 8 pattern.

Another advantage of a multi-pattern mic is that the frequency response can change drastically, depending on which pattern you have selected. Sometimes, omni pattern flattens the EQ curve, giving you a more natural response with a smoother high end, but it also brings your room into the recording, which could be a problem if your room doesn't sound good. Check the frequency response graphs for the mic to see the difference in response depending on which pattern is selected.
Old 29th February 2012
  #3
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Earcatcher's Avatar
A superb violinist deserves a superb mic. Think Schoeps or DPA. I used a Schoeps CMC6-MK21 as a spot mic in the sample in this post: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7507163-post6.html The mics you mentioned are not in that league by far.
Old 29th February 2012
  #4
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I was afraid of that.
Beautiful sound Earcatcher, I forgot how much I liked that piece as well.

So, any recommendations in the $400 - $1000.00 range that may suffice?
I mean, most people are listening to mp3s..........

Thank you both for the replies so far.
Old 29th February 2012
  #5
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noto View Post
I was afraid of that.
Beautiful sound Earcatcher, I forgot how much I liked that piece as well.

So, any recommendations in the $400 - $1000.00 range that may suffice?
I mean, most people are listening to mp3s..........

Thank you both for the replies so far.
Well, I paid €981.- for that CMC6-MK21 combo in 2011. Brand new from my dealer, no special promotion, so it's not that far out of your price range. Anyway, if you want a secret tip from me: go the ribbon route if only cheap condensers would be your alternative for the Shoeps and DPA mics. So far the AT4081 has given me much joy on strings (apart from the less affordable Royers). The musicians themselves like that sound a lot too. AT4081 samples can be found in the recordings in these posts:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7587901-post2.html (Alman a 5 in G sample; the spotmics on the violas)
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7452382-post36.html (Clavicymbalum)
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/6950450-post22.html (Sax)

What most people listen to should not be your reference! Your reference should be how great a superb violinist can sound in real life and what you can make out of that.
Old 29th February 2012
  #6
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rumbletone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
A superb violinist deserves a superb mic. Think Schoeps or DPA. I used a Schoeps CMC6-MK21 as a spot mic in the sample in this post: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7507163-post6.html The mics you mentioned are not in that league by far.
+1 - IMHO B&K/DPA through a clean pre and great converter are sublime for solo classical. In your price range, I'd look at a pair of joly-modded Oktava SDCs - assuming you are recording classical repertoire in a suitable room (i.e., a hall with some natural verb). If not, ribbons may be a good option - solo violin can be harsh/biting when mic'd close or in a dry room, and a warmer ribbon can go a long way to taking off some edge. Two ribbons in Blumlein could sound great for solo violin. Let us know how it works out!
Old 29th February 2012
  #7
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Been playing for 30 years..Depending the sound you are going for royers are nice. Recently we've used peluso 47le a couple times and old 414s as well. Room plays a big part too of course.
Old 29th February 2012
  #8
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Beyerdynamic MC930 stereo pair. I just love the natural sound of these mics.

Sent from my HTC EVO.
Old 29th February 2012
  #9
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travisbrown's Avatar
How about this setup?
Old 29th February 2012
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noto View Post
Need a mic for recording a superb classical violinist.
I have been suggested the SE4400a and a AT 4047.
I tried an AKG C1000s which brought out the lower strings nicely but there was too much sibilence on the high E string.
I also want the mic for other applications such as flute, voice, maybe classical guitar and mandolin.

Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks
earthworks QTC
Old 29th February 2012
  #11
Gear Nut
 
oldgreensock's Avatar
 

Violin rcording

If you're feeling open minded, this mic has produced some of the best violin/viola/flute sounds I have ever recorded. Put it on the ear of the musician that is closest to the source and you will be amazed.
Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : BP892-TH MicroSet
Old 29th February 2012
  #12
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waxx's Avatar
 

I like the Gefell M300 a lot if no schoeps is availeble for violin. It's a rather neutral sdc and just fits your budget. You can also use it for a lot of other applications (from drum overhead if you got 2, over acoustic guitar, piano, classical instruments, room, ...)
Old 29th February 2012
  #13
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Enginearing's Avatar
 

MS with Beyer m201 or Sennheiser MD441 as mid, cascade fathead as side(basing this on using AEAr92 but the cascades are getting some serious raves around here and are more online with your budget) .
All of these are fantastic on most sources, including the ones on your list. This should give you a wonderful full sound with a silky well rounded top end.
I think some LDCs you might encounter some harshness, but you could consider something like an Audix C212 for side. As with everything results will depend on your environment somewhat.

If you can beg, borrow, hire or steal (ok maybe not steal) something like a DPA4099 that could be used to blend in to taste.
Old 29th February 2012
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noto View Post
I also want the mic for other applications such as flute, voice, maybe classical guitar and mandolin.

Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks
I would recommend a pair of Shure SM81's.
About $350 each.
Excellent all round choice for all acoustical sources.
Shure SM81 | Sweetwater.com

Good Luck!
Old 29th February 2012
  #15
Try a Heil PR40 .it has been surprising me a lot recently . Have not heard a violen recorded with it but it's articulation and character may just be the ticket. Recently for me ,it's been winning over condensers 70% of the time.
Old 29th February 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
I had great luck with a pair of Fathead II Lundhalls in mid/side with a Blue Bottle Rocket Stage 1 (standard capsule) mounted above the M/S pair, pointing down at the violin. The M/S gave smoothness and body with an excellent 3D acoustic envelope and the Bottle Rocket gave some edge and moved the mix toward a more neutral tone. You can pick up the Fathead Blumlein pair kit for about $600 and choose between and A/T or other condenser of choice in the $400 range.
Old 29th February 2012
  #17
Here for the gear
 

Earcatcher,
I do not see a single CMC6-MK21 for sale, they all seem to be in matched pairs.
Wow, I really like the AT 4081 samples.........wow!
The sax sounds great, the viols are beautiful! What made you choose the 4081 over the 4080?

Thank you everyone else for the responses, I have a lot of research to do.
Does anyone else have any recording of strings to share?
Old 29th February 2012
  #18
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noto View Post
Earcatcher,
I do not see a single CMC6-MK21 for sale, they all seem to be in matched pairs.
Wow, I really like the AT 4081 samples.........wow!
The sax sounds great, the viols are beautiful! What made you choose the 4081 over the 4080?

Thank you everyone else for the responses, I have a lot of research to do.
Does anyone else have any recording of strings to share?
You can buy all Schoeps parts single or double. Talk to a good dealer if you have a chance. Mine is cheaper than the big box movers.

Anyway, yes I am getting more and more happy with those AT4081's. The AT4080 has an inflated low boost. Great for pop/rock, probably, but I like the more linear response of the AT4081. The form factor of the AT4081's is also much more friendly on stage. They look fantastic actually. They need some burn-in time to get lower noise. Quite strange. In the beginning I got the spec'd noise levels, but now they are much more quiet, without any loss of response. I started out with one and found the noise prohibitive for considering another. But when that first one got better I bought another one. Same story. Normally I find AT condenser mics too bright/sharp for my taste, but these ribbons are superb. I happily mix them with my Royers.
Old 1st March 2012
  #19
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

You didn't mention a budget, but I'm thinking a Flea 12 could be great for this.

-R
Old 1st March 2012
  #20
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
You didn't mention a budget, but I'm thinking a Flea 12 could be great for this.

-R
In post #4 Noto says: "So, any recommendations in the $400 - $1000.00 range that may suffice?".
Old 1st March 2012
  #21
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

in the $1000 range i would look at the following:

1. for a brighter sound, a used AKG 451 EB or 460 with CK1 capsule.

2. for a darker, thicker sound, a used Coles 4038.

3. if you can find one for $1000, a Neumann KM 84 is great on just about anything with strings on it.
Old 1st March 2012
  #22
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keep you're money, and just hire an m49 for a few days
Old 1st March 2012
  #23
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybluerental View Post
in the $1000 range i would look at the following:

1. for a brighter sound, a used AKG 451 EB [...] with CK1
This is what I typically use for lead or solo violin. You should be able to find a used one for under $500. It's a mic worth having for all sorts of uses.
Old 3rd March 2012
  #24
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Would the Schoeps CMC6-MK21 work for classical flute as well?
Old 3rd March 2012
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

KM84
Old 4th March 2012
  #26
teo
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teo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skybluerental View Post
3. if you can find one for $1000, a Neumann KM 84 is great on just about anything with strings on it.
I was about to say that, but...what's up with the price? I guess they are less expensive here in Europe...
Old 4th March 2012
  #27
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sonic dogg's Avatar
KM84. Also.
Old 4th March 2012
  #28
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filipv's Avatar
Boring answer: u87, hpf off, cardioid pattern, two feet away
Old 4th March 2012
  #29
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noto View Post
Would the Schoeps CMC6-MK21 work for classical flute as well?
Yes.
Old 4th March 2012
  #30
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybluerental View Post
in the $1000 range i would look at the following:

1. for a brighter sound, a used AKG 451 EB or 460 with CK1 capsule.
My choice.
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