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Volume nob for monitors?
Old 18th February 2012
  #31
Lives for gear
 

I use a Shallco stepped attenuator custom made to my spec with twenty 1 dB steps plus "off.". Works quite well. BTW, I use standard light switches to switch between monitors, all of them wired to the same power amp.

Cheers,

Otto
Old 18th February 2012 | Show parent
  #32
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanbarnett View Post
The outs and ins on the back of the Radial MC3 are all quarter inch..whats the best way to hook it up if my cables from HD to the amp are all XLR based male and female in/outs... get what i mean? I know, i should be removed for even asking such a stupid question...


Radial MC3 | Sweetwater.com
NYCruiser is right. Just use XLR to TRS interconnects. It's all balanced.

Old 20th February 2012 | Show parent
  #33
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Boschen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
That aint pretty....but I'm sure it works... .:-)
Lol thanks!

Yeah, I'm clearly influenced by the industrial school of design.
I had the chassis painted red but I liked the grey better with that chickenfoot.

DIY lets me make choices based on my own stupid
priorities. I love that.

I'm dying to see Otto's light switch monitor bank. I can think of lots of fun ways
To lay that one out!
Old 21st February 2012
  #34
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boschen View Post
Lol thanks!

Yeah, I'm clearly influenced by the industrial school of design.
I had the chassis painted red but I liked the grey better with that chickenfoot.

DIY lets me make choices based on my own stupid
priorities. I love that.

I'm dying to see Otto's light switch monitor bank. I can think of lots of fun ways
To lay that one out!
I'll see if I can post a quick pic sometime. Pretty low budget affair. The ground leads of the switches on a channel are tied together and then to the amp ground output and speaker ground outputs. Then the switches connect the plus leads of the speakers to the amp plus output. I just click one set on at a time. Cheap and low tech but perfectly adequate.

Cheers,

Otto
Old 21st February 2012
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boschen View Post
I'm dying to see Otto's light switch monitor bank. I can think of lots of fun ways
To lay that one out!
Now I can rest knowing I will not be the immediate agent of your demise...

Didn't worry too much about making it pretty, obviously.

Cheers,

Otto
Attached Thumbnails
Volume nob for monitors?-imageuploadedbygearslutz1329792787.921916.jpg  
Old 21st February 2012
  #36
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ofajen View Post
Now I can rest knowing I will not be the immediate agent of your demise...

Didn't worry too much about making it pretty, obviously.

Cheers,

Otto
One switch controls a L/R, or one for each side? Looks from your setup that switching is a two-fist affair. You could have one dual-gang light switch per pair.

This is all after the power stage, correct? What to you do about optimizing the different loads? I used to have a speaker switcher with one amp, but wanted the levels matched among pairs so ended up powering each with a dedicated amp. Plus I had one set of powered monitors.
Old 21st February 2012 | Show parent
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
One switch controls a L/R, or one for each side? Looks from your setup that switching is a two-fist affair. You could have one dual-gang light switch per pair.

This is all after the power stage, correct? What to you do about optimizing the different loads? I used to have a speaker switcher with one amp, but wanted the levels matched among pairs so ended up powering each with a dedicated amp. Plus I had one set of powered monitors.
Yes, there is one switch per side. I could have a dual gang switch to do both. It doesn't seem like a burden to switch them both and the switches cost $0.47 each. Also separate switches makes it easy to just use one mix cube speaker (with the mixer output switched to mono).

These switches are all after the power amp. At present, I'm only using the mix cubes and two-way sealed Peerless speakers. My monitoring purposes for the two are different enough that I don't fret over the somewhat greater sensitivity of the mix cubes.

I suppose I could measure it precisely and then just adjust the monitor gain that many dB between switching one set off and the other on. I also have an identical spare DH-200 power amp if I decide I need a separate amp for each of the speaker sets. At present, the third set of switches is unused.

Cheers,

Otto
Old 21st February 2012
  #38
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
That aint pretty....but I'm sure it works... .:-)
Mine's not too much to look at either. The Shallco stepped attenuator runs a good deal more, but you can't tell here by looking. Once you listen, you will take precise level matching for granted at every setting.

Cheers,

Otto
Attached Thumbnails
Volume nob for monitors?-imageuploadedbygearslutz1329799034.369566.jpg  
Old 28th April 2012 | Show parent
  #39
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popmann's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanbarnett View Post
I am looking at a Radial MC3... would this work?
I just got mine...and unless it's broken (I've emailed Radial support-will call Monday if I don't hear back)...no...

I literally have this hooked with 1meter out...and either 2 or 3 (I've tried both my Akai and computer-physically in different locations)...and there's a VERY noticeable high end loss compared with plugging the same DAs OR the analog master section of the Akai into my speakers.

I will report back if they say this is defective...but, I will certainly be returning it if this is how it acts.
Old 28th April 2012
  #40
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
I just got mine...and unless it's broken (I've emailed Radial support-will call Monday if I don't hear back)...no...

I literally have this hooked with 1meter out...and either 2 or 3 (I've tried both my Akai and computer-physically in different locations)...and there's a VERY noticeable high end loss compared with plugging the same DAs OR the analog master section of the Akai into my speakers.

I will report back if they say this is defective...but, I will certainly be returning it if this is how it acts.
Huh. Don't know what will be causing that. The only thing in line is the attenuator, so more or less straight wire. Sounds like a capacitance problem, but there is no real distance in there.
Old 28th April 2012 | Show parent
  #41
SRS
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SRS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boschen View Post
I needed just the same item, and didn't like what I saw on the market. I opted for a DIY stepped attenuator design. I had the chassis and a nice chickenfoot laying around already. I made another with a high quality dual gang pot instead of the steps, but I like the step design better, even though there was very little noticeable drift with the dual pot. I got the dual pot from my local electronics shop (a very good one, rare as hen's teeth...) on the cheap, as well as the stepped one, which cost me 15$ without the resistors soldered on. I have coarse steps on my knob, cause that's what I use, but I could have gone finer...total DIY cost was about 20$, not counting my own time. In that sense, I would have saved $ by simply buying a box from my wholesale supplier, but I like doing this kind of thing for fun.
EDIT: I concur with Granny G, above...

Would you mind sharing the stepped switch specs and the resistors used to set this up? I want to make an additional one. I use my Grace M902b as my main monitor control now, but want a secondary monitor control.
Old 1st May 2012
  #42
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popmann's Avatar
Radial support has no suggestion to improve what I'm hearing. They say 6db level loss is normal with a passive circuit...but, while this seems like more than 6db, let's assume that is what it is...but, the dulling and distortion are unacceptable. Going back.
Old 1st May 2012 | Show parent
  #43
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
Radial support has no suggestion to improve what I'm hearing. They say 6db level loss is normal with a passive circuit...but, while this seems like more than 6db, let's assume that is what it is...but, the dulling and distortion are unacceptable. Going back.
It's a level loss, or a HF rolloff, distortion, or all three? In your first post you only wrote about the HF rolloff.

Very curious.
Old 1st May 2012
  #44
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popmann's Avatar
All three. Radial support said they knew there was a 6db level loss...which I suppose could account for some perception of high end loss...but, not for the distortion. If anything, feeding 6db less to the powered monitors should result in less distortion.

I honestly don't know what to do. I mean...it looks like to get analog master section features...the next step up is the over $1k level--Dbox, Coleman QS8, and the UBK stuff, which honestly I'd take off the table because it sits on the table. This Radial worked ergonomicaly because it sits flat, but is addressed from the sides--thus it can sit up under the LED.

I really find it amazing that there's no solid product for this at less than those expensive units--I guess I could just get an ATTY and do the rest (dim/mono/sp select) digitally in the Cubase "control room".
Old 2nd May 2012 | Show parent
  #45
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

I'm using a Nano Patch made by SM. $60 if I recall correctly. Balanced ins on trs/xlr combo jacks, balanced outs on 1/4" jacks plus a stereo mini jack output and a mute button. It's been working fine, although I didn't do an A/B test to check for signal degradation.
Old 2nd May 2012
  #46
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popmann's Avatar
Yeah, I'm a bitch that way...I don't buy/keep anything without a solid A-B.

But, once I get get gear I like, I leave it be for a LONG time...so...I'm in a painful transition right now, but considering the way recording fidelity is going, getting spendy right now might be a wise thing...if I just buy a "get me though this transition phase" system, when I go for another in a few years, you (speaking collectively) may have decided that 320 mp3 is best for tracking...and that Apple earbuds gen5 are the defactor target monitors...and that "automix algorithms" take the guesswork out of getting proper mix balance...

Can you tell I'm getting old and cynical?
Old 2nd May 2012 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
Yeah, I'm a bitch that way...I don't buy/keep anything without a solid A-B.

But, once I get get gear I like, I leave it be for a LONG time...so...I'm in a painful transition right now, but considering the way recording fidelity is going, getting spendy right now might be a wise thing...if I just buy a "get me though this transition phase" system, when I go for another in a few years, you (speaking collectively) may have decided that 320 mp3 is best for tracking...and that Apple earbuds gen5 are the defactor target monitors...and that "automix algorithms" take the guesswork out of getting proper mix balance...

Can you tell I'm getting old and cynical?
If you can handle selecting an enclosure, installing the jacks and wiring and deal with the switching, Shallco will make a stepped attenuator to your spec (dB change on each step) using 1% precision resistors. Keep the cable length reasonable and it will be excellent. Should be under $200 for the whole thing, and it will be precisely built to your spec. This is a product line they bought from Daven in the mid-60s with a long track record of service in audio applications.

Cheers,

Otto
Old 23rd December 2012
  #48
Gear Head
I'm using a Radial MC3 and I like it, except for the fact that it uses pots, which I intend to mod.

As a switcher, it is wonderful, and meets my needs perfectly. I have it configured as follows:
Monitor A: JBL LSR28P pair
Monitor B: Bryston 4B > NS-10 pair
Sub: JBL LSR12P
Aux: Behritone C50A pair

The master pot was a bit scratchy and muddy at low volumes, so I keep it all the way up. I was using the monitor pot on my 01V96 console or Motu interface to control volume feeding the MC3, but now I use the stepped switch on a Lavry DA10. MUCH better sound at ALL volumes with the Lavry!

I calibrated the system by running pink noise through the system, generated from the 01V96. Using a dB meter, I set the Lavry's volume so that I was getting 83dB out of Monitor A > JBL's at their sweet spot. (The MC3 Monitor A trim was set at max.) I then moved the dB meter to the NS-10 sweet spot, switched to Monitor B, and lowered the Monitor B trim to get 83 dB out of them. Then I switched off Monitor B and switched on the "headphones" and moved the front panel headphone control until the Behritones were giving me 83 dB on the meter.

Then I ran a measurement mic into an aux input in Pro Tools, not going out anywhere, but with a Waves PAZ analyzer on it. I set the sub trim to get as close to flat low end response in the room, with the Monitor A JBL pair on too. Close to all the way up is where it ended up.

I set the dim at a good dim spot - around 9 o'clock.

If I mix with headphones, I plug them into the Lavry.

The Behritones had to be run unbalanced out of the Aux, with a 1/4" TRS stereo plug to two RCA plugs "insert" cable.

The system works great, and I get equal volume when switching between monitors at average mixing volumes, making tonal comparisons better.

I considered building a passive balanced switch box with attenuation, but that would eliminate the sub control. The Radial box is unique in that it is a passive circuit, through the main L/R signal path, but with active buffers to handle the sub's mono fold-down, and for the headphone amp. Not many boxes on the market like that. It is really useful to be able to switch the sub in and out, while listening to any of the 3 monitor pairs.

Before I got the Lavry, I bought a 10K stepped attenuator, to switch out for the main pot. WAY too big to fit in the box! That would be an improvement, but would require its own separate box, perhaps mounted just below or next to the Radial with the leads running through a hole into it.

Now that I have the Lavry, I intend to improve the MC3 by eliminating all of the pots. I'll pull out the trim pots, leaving them set exactly where they are as I calibrated them, measure their resistance at that setting, then buy resistors of those exact values to solder into the board in place of them. The Monitor A and the Master pots will be replaced with a simple jumper, since they are set all the way up.
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