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Drum Buss - Send Overheads there too??
Old 10th February 2012
  #1
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Drum Buss - Send Overheads there too??

Do you send your overheads to the drum buss along with the other close mics ? I hear alot of people say " don't compress your overheads " !!

Give me some feedback about what you send to the drum buss .
Old 10th February 2012
  #2
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jstummbillig's Avatar
 

Mostly not. But then again, the **** if I made a rule out of this. For the stuff I do it just sounds better most of the time to my ears.
Old 10th February 2012
  #3
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For me... always!

But, I find that my bus compressor is only squishing snare/kick, it just kisses the cymbals and toms.
Old 10th February 2012
  #4
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Send the overheads to the drum bus. If you don't like it you can always un-send them.heh


Something you can also try is a parallel compression drum buss, where you just send the stuff you wanna compress to that buss and compress it pretty hard, mixing the results in with the uncompressed drums.

You can use aux sends to send to this bus, this way you can adjust the amount of each element independently of your "clean" drum mix. You can get mega squish happening on your kick and snare and only a little squish on your overheads, all while using only one compressor.
Old 21st February 2012
  #5
I assumed this thread was about sending OH's to a parallel drum buss, not straight thru... Smashing overheads is losing proposition (in most cases, you never know....) I'd highly recommend paralleling it all, make the comp do what you want and mix it in.
Old 21st February 2012
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
For me... always!

But, I find that my bus compressor is only squishing snare/kick, it just kisses the cymbals and toms.
I tend to think like this as well.
Old 21st February 2012
  #7
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Fletcher's Avatar
Funny... I hate compressing kik, snare or cymbals... but toms? I love to smash the fvck out of them... in parallel.
Old 21st February 2012
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
Do you send your overheads to the drum buss along with the other close mics ? I hear alot of people say " don't compress your overheads " !!

Give me some feedback about what you send to the drum buss .
I compress OHs all the time in one way or another. And I've worked with plenty of producers and engineers who do the same.

As usual, it depends on the source, but it can be highly useful for adding sustain to cymbals. It can also work great when the snare is poking out a bit too loud over the cymbals, maybe fighting the close mics, and needs to be smacked back down. Especially useful for drums tracked in crappy-sounding rooms.

As for sending the whole kit to a compressed buss, hell yeah, include the OHs! Part of the mojo of buss compression comes from the pumpy goodness that unifies the kit and drives things along. The ambience and cymbals from the OH mics can be an integral part of that. If I'm doing buss compression on the kit, I send every element of the kit to it.

Working in parallel, it can go either way. Probably include the OHs more often than not, but the pumpy distortion added to the cymbal decay can be a problem.
Old 21st February 2012
  #9
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Kabby's Avatar
I usually send kik, snare, toms, & a bit of the mono room mic, like -15 db less than the close mics.
Old 21st February 2012
  #10
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turk sanchez's Avatar
Hey ScumBum

I love compressing the overhead channels...but I have not even been doing any drum buss at all. I kind of just like inserting different comps on the channels and having everything go straight out l/r and having a mix buss comp kiss the drums. I mix ITB though...

PS...I usually track a pair of stereo room mics nuked through an old 33609 (in a great room)...having this on hand to blend in helps a lot.
Old 24th February 2012
  #11
anyone ever play with high-passing (at like -6 dB/octave) the side chain for a parallel drum buss comp? I've messed with it cursorily, just to keep from choking the buss.

Also, anyone mix a summed mono compressed drum buss back in? I did it once out of necessity (only one EL-8 in my school's studio...). I didn't mind it, but I was told by a prof/ industry pro that it would screw up the stereo image
Old 24th February 2012
  #12
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott003 View Post
anyone ever play with high-passing (at like -6 dB/octave) the side chain for a parallel drum buss comp? I've messed with it cursorily, just to keep from choking the buss.

Also, anyone mix a summed mono compressed drum buss back in? I did it once out of necessity (only one EL-8 in my school's studio...). I didn't mind it, but I was told by a prof/ industry pro that it would screw up the stereo image

Yes and Yes.

Don't be afraid to try anything except not gain staging! Well, hell, try that too!
Old 24th February 2012
  #13
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I pretty much compress every damn thing. Ya just gotta know how much. And what attack and release to use. You can just kiss it A little or smash it.

Obviously the overheads are critical. You could technically use them and A kick mic alone to get A great drum sound. Done it. So if your not A compressor Ninja don't track with one...

A lot of times I let the drums fly free and send them all to 2 stereo busses. One for parallel compression. And one for reverbs. 'Till I get A really good mix of them that is working well in the song. Then I will group them. Sometimes I never group them at all. There may not be A need if everything is tracked at nice levels. Depends on how much time is alotted to the job.

John
Old 24th February 2012
  #14
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And yeah Scott taking the low end out of the sidechain will let the drums kick more ass. It won't pump as much. And sound much beefier!

Scott knows A Lot more than he is leading me to believe. The mono sum to A stereo buss compressor's sidechain with An adjustable highpass filter is an SSL buss compressor... Or at least that is what mine does.
Old 24th February 2012
  #15
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Beat Poet's Avatar
 

I send the actual drums to a bus and the OHs to a separate bus. I find that it's easier to add the compression that way, without getting that awful pumping. It's particularly valuable with the OHs, as they only have to contend with the limited amount of kick and snare they're picking up from above the kit, rather than having the close mics on the same bus and mucking everything up.
Old 24th February 2012
  #16
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filipv's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by decocco View Post
Send the overheads to the drum bus. If you don't like it you can always un-send them.heh
the best possible answer! EOD
Old 24th February 2012
  #17
GSF
Gear Addict
I've had great results, especially with heavier stuff, when sending the entire kit to something like a TG1 in parallel...
Old 24th February 2012
  #18
I rarely use parallel compression, but I always compress the overheads usually
with a low ratio like 2:1 with a slow attack and release
Old 28th February 2012
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by stagefright13 View Post
The mono sum to A stereo buss compressor's sidechain with An adjustable highpass filter is an SSL buss compressor

What I meant was running a mono parallel drum buss and comping it (necessary with one EL8 lol). My concern was for the stereo image, but would this be similar to compressing just the mid of a M-S?


If I understand properly, your SSL buss comp is using a summed-mono high-passed SC?
Old 28th February 2012
  #20
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amishsixstringe's Avatar
 

I love the cymbal pumping thing you get out of sending everything over and giving it a good spank. If I want less pump, you can split the overheads and/or rooms and only send a little bit to the bus, then leave a separate bus for those tracks untouched....or smash the **** out of them too! SMASH IT ALL!


Neil
Old 1st March 2012
  #21
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bluefaced's Avatar
 

I send every channel of drums to the drum bus/VCA usually with no compression. But there's also a lot of parallel compression thing going on with the drums through the matrix. Fixed post fader so the balance stays the same.
Old 1st March 2012
  #22
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swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
Do you send your overheads to the drum buss along with the other close mics ? I hear alot of people say " don't compress your overheads " !!

Give me some feedback about what you send to the drum buss .
I do currently, but I don't usually compress any thing but the room mics.
Old 1st March 2012
  #23
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ScumBum's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Stanley View Post
I gotta tell ya sumthin peepole

When Kiss was starting out we would not only take the drums on the bus! We would take our guitars and basses too! Taking the buss in NYC in the 1970's was dangerous, peepole! I would hafta carry my LOVE GUN!
Thanks Paul , so you guys used to take your drums on the bus ? I'm worried that if the bus driver slams on the breaks , my cymbals could go flying and smash some little old lady in the head . Well I guess if its in the name of Rock n' Roll , its worth the risk .
Old 2nd March 2012
  #24
I like to keep overheads in a separate group with ride, hihats and any spot mics -no compression on them except what they receive on the master buss. I keep the stereo room mics separate also and crush the hell out of them.

As for Kicks, Snares and Toms, they can go in a submix but I still apply individual compression on each channel.
Old 2nd March 2012
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Stanley View Post
I gotta tell ya sumthin peepole

When Kiss was starting out we would not only take the drums on the bus! We would take our guitars and basses too! Taking the buss in NYC in the 1970's was dangerous, peepole! I would hafta carry my LOVE GUN!
what did you guys use for a buss comp on the love gun record?
the bass and kick drum on Christine Sixteen are huge and punchy

Gene has a little bit of distortion on the bass too which really helps cut through the mix!
It's so hot! I think you better call out the FIREHOUSE!!!!!

that mix really sets my soul on fire
Old 2nd March 2012
  #26
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

I once took a 4 x 12 cab home on a bus.
Old 2nd March 2012
  #27
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monkeyxx's Avatar
I like a compressor on just the overheads often... haven't experimented with drum buss compression. I know I don't like compressors on kick or snare individually.

compressing the overheads just brings out more of everything, it seems, to me, with the added benefit of making the cymbals sound really epic.

maybe this has to do with me tracking in less than perfect rooms as bgrotto mentioned... I never would have guessed at that. got to love gearslutz sometimes
Old 2nd March 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
overheads are tricky on the buss they often get too washed out and smushed if not done properly it's best to just comp them separately ever so slightly and chop out the low mid cardboard with eq before the comp.

Sometimes a high pass filter is a good trick, that way you can get all the power from the drum mics themselves and not worry about having to send the oh to the buss. You only use the OH for cymbals/hats

Buss comping in a DAW can sometimes be problematic with plug-in delays on certain platforms. Not so much a concern nowadays but on a busy mix with lots of plugs on a native system it is something you have to be careful of w/ flanging && || phase issues due to potential delays.

Sometimes a buss comp on the drum buss but a limiter on the oh can get a slamming sound it all depends, it is so dependent on the project, the song the way you tracked && miced the kit. It's tough to just give deaf advice
without hearing your tracks and what you are going for
Old 4th March 2012
  #29
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I always mix drums with adding compression here and there. Just a slightly bouncing meter on something like a 1176 can add quite a bit of definition to the OHs, then also send them to the drum buss and parallel. Here and there means kind of micromanagement. I might have a compressor on nearly every drum track. Just use ears and meters and keep close attention to what the plugins or outboard are doing. It can be a daunting amount of data to deal with but you get used to it.

On the buss I have a similar thing going on, just maybe 2dB of compression. What's smashed is the room and parallel.

What I'm going for is a tight roomy sound. I start with just the smashed room and OHs and go for a sound like a kit that's played in a room with all of the attack coming through. The compression deals with decay and sustain. I cut out the highs from the room track. Otherwise they seem to add messiness to the drum mix.

Then blend in seperate mics with individual compression and finally the parallel.

I also send the whole kit to a reverb with lows rolled off. Gives cymbals a nice empty space to splash in.

Then play around with compressors and tape for character. Mixing the drum kit with other instruments is a whole another matter. I usually individually figure out what sounds kind of good, then start tweaking to glue the whole thing together.

This is what I do for a massive drum sound. Might not fit other styles, currently I'm mixing progressive death metal of my own band!
I don't consider myself as a "pro", this is just stuff I've been learning over the years. The first mixes I did I used to compress the hell out of everyhing. Then slowly I figured out that all of the compression adds up. And now I get a lively drum sound.
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