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High pass on electric guitars? Saturation Plugins
Old 7th May 2006
  #1
Gear Head
 
Luk3_c's Avatar
 

High pass on electric guitars?

Hi,
which way do you use high pass on guitas? The lowest strin on guitat in normal tuning is E (165 Hz). Does it mean that everything bellow 165 Hz is useless? Just rumble from room and cabinet? I don't think that highpassing guitar on 165 Hz is good but what about e.g. 120Hz?
Old 7th May 2006
  #2
Moderator
 
Oroz's Avatar
 

It depends on a lot of things but if we were talking about an electric rhythm guitar in a pretty busy song I often find myself cutting all the way to 200-250 Hz to let it interact more with all the instruments, specally if the song has many "big sounding" or "bassy" instruments and if the guitar is not playing an important role in the song.
Old 7th May 2006
  #3
Gear Head
 
Luk3_c's Avatar
 

I mean modern emo/punkrock rhythm guitars - distorted chords. Usually doubled guitars, bass, drums and vocals.
Old 7th May 2006
  #4
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luk3_c
Hi,
which way do you use high pass on guitas? The lowest strin on guitat in normal tuning is E (165 Hz). Does it mean that everything bellow 165 Hz is useless? Just rumble from room and cabinet? I don't think that highpassing guitar on 165 Hz is good but what about e.g. 120Hz?
165hz might be where the low E is, but you have to consider cabinet resonance and the room sound.
You want some of this, otherwise you might as well DI.
I high-pass around 60-80hz a bit, not often higher, sometimes not at all.
Old 7th May 2006
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Actually, the low 'E' is 82.5 Hz, so you'll hear a big change if you high-pass at 165. Where (and if) you highpass probably all depends on the context of the mix, but defaulting to 165 is probably a bad idea.
Old 7th May 2006
  #6
Gear Head
 
Luk3_c's Avatar
 

richmondjames: yep..the cabinet and the room, that's what I wanted to hear

StudioRhytm: I'm not going to highpass the guitar on 165. Just wanted to hear how much is everything under 165Hz important. But are you shure that low E is 82,5? Think it's not. It wouldn't be guitar but bass. Just check it on spectral analyzer. But in scores.....the guitar is noted one octave lower than it really is....I thinkheh , maybe I'm not right so please correct me.
Old 7th May 2006
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luk3_c

StudioRhytm: I'm not going to highpass the guitar on 165. Just wanted to hear how much is everything under 165Hz important. But are you shure that low E is 82,5? Think it's not. It wouldn't be guitar but bass. Just check it on spectral analyzer. But in scores.....the guitar is noted one octave lower than it really is....I thinkheh , maybe I'm not right so please correct me.
The low 'E' on guitar is 82.5, on bass it's 41.25 Hz. I don't think a spectral analyzer would be much help, because both instruments are probably richer in their first overtone than the fundamental (at least on the low notes), but if you did check, you'd see some activity down there.
Old 7th May 2006
  #8
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picksail's Avatar
 

These days, I prefer to shelve the guitars down versus a steep high-pass.

It seems to help retain some of the natural qualities inherent in the guitar.
Old 7th May 2006
  #9
Gear Head
 
Luk3_c's Avatar
 

Can't beleve it.......turning on my specral analyzer
Old 7th May 2006
  #10
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Luk3_c's Avatar
 

Oh **** ))))...you are right...sorry
Old 7th May 2006
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luk3_c
Oh **** ))))...you are right...sorry
Old 7th May 2006
  #12
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by picksail
These days, I prefer to shelve the guitars down versus a steep high-pass.

It seems to help retain some of the natural qualities inherent in the guitar.
I agree. Don't have to toss out the whole deal, just turn some of it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StudioRhythm
Actually, the low 'E' is 82.5 Hz, so you'll hear a big change if you high-pass at 165. Where (and if) you highpass probably all depends on the context of the mix, but defaulting to 165 is probably a bad idea.
I think defaulting to anything is not a very good idea.

I think that instead of the spectral analyzer, I'd just listen to the guitars in the context of the entire mix and see what your ears (+brain) think.
Old 7th May 2006
  #13
Lives for gear
I would say LOW pass guitars if they're of the distorted emo/pop punk type. Try 10k...takes the shrillness out and allows other things to breathe up there.
Old 7th May 2006
  #14
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by picksail
These days, I prefer to shelve the guitars down versus a steep high-pass.

It seems to help retain some of the natural qualities inherent in the guitar.

i like really gentle hp's, like 6db/octave, even more than shelves, for the same reason: they sound very natural.

another great hpf is mic placement .


gregoire
del ubik
Old 7th May 2006
  #15
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elambo's Avatar
I typically HPF guitars, but never with any sort of standard setting. I rarely go above 150 unless I'm going after an effect - typically just below the point where the HPF starts to steal away anything that the song needs, which is most often around 80. As long as the bass and kick have enough space to move around down there I'm cool with keeping the HPF relatively flat. On the other hand, if it's a mix that needs to be spatious and precise, I'll cut anything below the lowest note.
Old 8th May 2006
  #16
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DirkB's Avatar
 

I often hi-pass dist-guitars. I select the filter and sweep around a little until the bass and low-end of the guitars "all mix and separate" pleasantly, i.e they sound as a whole, but I can detect the tone of both.

Most of the times, the hi-pass ends up somewhere between 60-90Hz with a 12db/oct filter.

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 8th May 2006
  #17
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Rednose's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luk3_c
Hi,
which way do you use high pass on guitas? The lowest strin on guitat in normal tuning is E (165 Hz). Does it mean that everything bellow 165 Hz is useless? Just rumble from room and cabinet? I don't think that highpassing guitar on 165 Hz is good but what about e.g. 120Hz?
I got a tip from a good mixer that I think works allrighty.
roll off under 120, but boost 100.
try that.
Old 8th May 2006
  #18
Gear Head
 
Luk3_c's Avatar
 

Rednose: I was trying something like that ...highpass on on 120 and boost something under it. But why 100?..........Think that there should be similar result when highpassing on 100. But maybe highpass on 120 and 82,5 boost could be fine.
Old 8th May 2006
  #19
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nathanvacha's Avatar
 

For your style of music, my vote is that it entirely depends on your bass sound. The better your bass player/bass sound, the higher you can probably filter the guitars. There's so much riffing typically with that music and when there's drop chording, the bass is probably playing the same as the guitars, and the high end is what makes your guitars really hard. You need that grit on the chords.
Old 8th May 2006
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
aetucker1's Avatar
 

for that type of music I have been consistantly hipassing at around 120. My quote that I always tell people in that general genre is "let the bass do the bass". a lot of guitar players now days really like a TON of low end that, in my opinion, makes guitars sound like crap and unable to sit in a mix.......so i take it all out once they leave by using hipass. haha
Old 8th May 2006
  #21
Gear Addict
 
emeline-rec's Avatar
 

I do alot of emo/punk mixing and I usually find i high pass at around 100-150Hz works generally trying to fit it around the bass. I also find a low pass is usefull if the guitars have to much top end. Also pay attention to the 4k area, I find distorted guitars tend to mask the 'click' in the kick around there.

Ian
Old 8th May 2006
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
joelgtrnut's Avatar
 

I do a lot of metal and you know how metal guitarists are..... 99,999 tracks of guitar at any given time. I've always found that hi passing and low passing in the 70-95 and 7k-11k (depends on what you are dealing with tone wise) really helps open up mix room for everything else, especially BASS and Kick drums. I've always tried to get the guitar and bass to gell and be one uniform tone. HPF and LPF can really help you accomplish this.

Sometimes I like to use the dreaded multiband on the low mids of the guitars to keep them in check if they are a bit boomy, but I want to keep that low mid guitar fattness there in the mix.

The trick with the top end is to get rid of any nasty fizz without destroying the top end of the guitar sound. Some frequencies can really build up on you when you do heavy layering. Hence a reason having a really great mic position on the cab is so important. For example: the dreaded evil ratty 5k spike of doom! Getting that really polished top end with that nice upper mid bite can be a real challenge sometimes. Using hi and low pass makes life much easier when doing the heavy stuff. YMMV
Old 8th May 2006
  #23
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Lord Fear's Avatar
 

i'll always high pass my distorted electrics to about 100 and than i'll pull them up further if i have to, i used to work for a producer who made a lot of those big emo/metal band's albums and he would often high pass his guitars to 200-250....
Old 8th May 2006
  #24
Gear Nut
 
unsilpauly's Avatar
 

multiband limiting the low mids(200-400hz depending on what youve got to work with) does the most for tightening things up as far as heavy guitar tones go. that and some highpass/lowpass(80hz/10kish) depending on the material. but a multiband limiter with only one band engaged on the low mids will work wonders. go and try and see for yourselves. this will work on most high gain guitar tracks.
Old 8th May 2006
  #25
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DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aetucker1
a lot of guitar players now days really like a TON of low end that, in my opinion, makes guitars sound like crap and unable to sit in a mix.......so i take it all out once they leave by using hipass. haha
My favorite trick too!

Sure beats arguing. It never fails when they come in for the next session: "Wow! What did you do to the guitars?!?! Sounds great!" I just tell them I "fattened" the guitar sound.heh
Old 8th May 2006
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
aetucker1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown
My favorite trick too!

Sure beats arguing. It never fails when they come in for the next session: "Wow! What did you do to the guitars?!?! Sounds great!" I just tell them I "fattened" the guitar sound.heh
i just tell them that i am amazing and can turn their crap into gold. what they dont realize sometimes is that i also reamp on a rare occasion........suckers.
Old 8th May 2006
  #27
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drmmrboy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by picksail
These days, I prefer to shelve the guitars down versus a steep high-pass.
It seems to help retain some of the natural qualities inherent in the guitar.
Word.. thumbsup
Old 9th May 2006
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
Matt Smith's Avatar
 

Yup, I agree with a lot of what's been said: multiband compression on the low mids is invaluable, as is filtering. For me, for Metal guitars it's usally around 60-80 Hz (depending on tuning) and around 12K up top. It's all dependent on the cabinet though, especially in terms of how much fizz you need to filter out on the top.
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