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Pyramix DAW - could have been for me...
Old 7th May 2006
  #1
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Pyramix DAW - could have been for me...

Now I know this DAW has a small but loyal fan base but my arguement (as a Pro Tools LE user) is that it could have finally been the DAW to drag me away from PT.

I have to admit to becoming frustrated with the "locked in" nature of Digidesigns LE hardware as there is no real professional step up without going full blown HD. I dont need HD as my work usually only utilises a few channels with very little plug ins / processing. But I do could do with Wordclock / Aes/Ebu support to name a couple.

So I was preparing myself for a change when I heard that this exciting new software might be the answer. To all you Logic users out there I primarily track and I have tried that in Logic to my severe frustration. Ive never tracked with a DAW as stable as PT. Yes that might just be my experience blah blah blah but every DAW has its strengths and weaknesses and personally, from the DAWs Ive tracked with, PT smokes them all for that particular application.

So anyway Pyramix sounded stable, intuitive and pro. But then I read about the native versions restrictions:

"The Native software is protected and authorised with a USB dongle, whereas the VS system only runs if the bespoke hardware DSP cards are installed in the computer. The Native version has limited functionality compared to the VS system, providing only stereo audio in and out, with sample rates up to 48kHz. It is also restricted to four playback channels in the mixer"

Personally I think that they have really missed a trick here. I know plenty of folk like me who track professionally using LE based systems but become increasingly frustrated at having to find "workarounds" to essentially bypass the prosumer features / restrictions. If Pyramix had catered for this group then who knows. While I can live with PT Le's restrictions (I have done up to now) I cant live with those outlined above, 'stereo in only'... I mean come on!
Old 7th May 2006
  #2
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Your answer is Sequoia or Samplitude...the absolute heat!

the inlcuded plugs are killer. Mixing engine is great, sounds fantastic...do a search here on it...youll see.

Sequoia/Samp smokes em all.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite
Now I know this DAW has a small but loyal fan base but my arguement (as a Pro Tools LE user) is that it could have finally been the DAW to drag me away from PT.

I have to admit to becoming frustrated with the "locked in" nature of Digidesigns LE hardware as there is no real professional step up without going full blown HD. I dont need HD as my work usually only utilises a few channels with very little plug ins / processing. But I do could do with Wordclock / Aes/Ebu support to name a couple.

So I was preparing myself for a change when I heard that this exciting new software might be the answer. To all you Logic users out there I primarily track and I have tried that in Logic to my severe frustration. Ive never tracked with a DAW as stable as PT. Yes that might just be my experience blah blah blah but every DAW has its strengths and weaknesses and personally, from the DAWs Ive tracked with, PT smokes them all for that particular application.

So anyway Pyramix sounded stable, intuitive and pro. But then I read about the native versions restrictions:

"The Native software is protected and authorised with a USB dongle, whereas the VS system only runs if the bespoke hardware DSP cards are installed in the computer. The Native version has limited functionality compared to the VS system, providing only stereo audio in and out, with sample rates up to 48kHz. It is also restricted to four playback channels in the mixer"

Personally I think that they have really missed a trick here. I know plenty of folk like me who track professionally using LE based systems but become increasingly frustrated at having to find "workarounds" to essentially bypass the prosumer features / restrictions. If Pyramix had catered for this group then who knows. While I can live with PT Le's restrictions (I have done up to now) I cant live with those outlined above, 'stereo in only'... I mean come on!
Old 7th May 2006
  #3
Gear Nut
 
Sensater's Avatar
 

Mosrite,
I think you have old information. Pyramix Native can take up to 8 I/O. Check it out at www.merging.com, click on 'Pyramix Native' on the left.

I have a single-card Pyramix system and I love it. The mix engine is awesome and the edting capabilities are nearly as good as Sonic and I hear Sequoia, which I haven't used. It has been very stable for tracking too, I haven't lost a take in over 3 years of use.

-Sen
Old 7th May 2006
  #4
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Hi Big Ray,

Thanks for those suggestions, will check them out. I know you, as I, do location recording. Can I ask what you interface your DAW with? What does Sequoia support?

Quote:
I think you have old information. Pyramix Native can take up to 8 I/O. Check it out at www.merging.com, click on 'Pyramix Native' on the left.

I have a single-card Pyramix system and I love it. The mix engine is awesome and the edting capabilities are nearly as good as Sonic and I hear Sequoia, which I haven't used. It has been very stable for tracking too, I haven't lost a take in over 3 years of use.
thats interesting. Although when you say you have a card does that not imply you are not using Pyramix native (or am I getting confused)?
Old 7th May 2006
  #5
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

Perhaps take a peep at Soundscape if you are considering your options. It might be the thing for you.
Old 7th May 2006
  #6
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Quote:
Perhaps take a peep at Soundscape if you are considering your options. It might be the thing for you
Thats really interesting as years ago the early Soundscape machines where the first that I trained on (before native DAWs became a viable solution). I have no memory of the interface though. Ziggy, do you primarily track with it? In your opinion what makes it work? also, can you compare it to PT? Thanks.
Old 7th May 2006
  #7
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

I use the Lynx AES 16. Lynx products and Sequoia work very well...

Telarc Just commissioned a Sequoia/Lynx system.

A lot of the professional location engineers I know love sequoia and would use nothing but. a lot of MEs as well.

It does recording/mixing and mastering equally well, native plugins are awesome..and it just sounds phenomenal.





Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite
Hi Big Ray,

Thanks for those suggestions, will check them out. I know you, as I, do location recording. Can I ask what you interface your DAW with? What does Sequoia support?



thats interesting. Although when you say you have a card does that not imply you are not using Pyramix native (or am I getting confused)?
Old 7th May 2006
  #8
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seaneldon's Avatar
 

i worked on sequoia almost 100% of the time all of last year, at my last studio. incredibly powerful program.
Old 7th May 2006
  #9
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite
Thats really interesting as years ago the early Soundscape machines where the first that I trained on (before native DAWs became a viable solution). I have no memory of the interface though. Ziggy, do you primarily track with it? In your opinion what makes it work? also, can you compare it to PT? Thanks.
I don't own one, nor have I ever used one. Just thought it looked like a nice alternative to a DSP based daw that could complete with protools.
Old 7th May 2006
  #10
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Nuendo or cubase, with the hardware you need and choose. We use nuendo here, it's beyond our dreams.
Regards Tamas Dragon
Old 7th May 2006
  #11
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AmbientSound's Avatar
 

Have you checked out the options that SADiE has to offer. I use SADiE 5 everyday and feel that it is a very stable and reliable system. But thats just my view.

Cheers

Jason
Old 7th May 2006
  #13
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pingu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRay
Your answer is Sequoia or Samplitude...the absolute heat!

the inlcuded plugs are killer. Mixing engine is great, sounds fantastic...do a search here on it...youll see.

Sequoia/Samp smokes em all.....


Except saw stuidio.
Old 7th May 2006
  #14
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu
Except saw stuidio.
That wasnt meant as a personal Jab, Pingu..just my thoughts. (lot of others use it/reccomend it too, which is what initially caused me to check it out.)

Indeed, SAW is a good program, but doesnt cut it up against Sequoia/Samp. (to me) for classical recording/mixing/mastering...

Like I said before ,if samplitude and sequoia were not in existance, then id use SAW.
Old 7th May 2006
  #15
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AlphaDingo's Avatar
 

Second vote for saw from a former samplitude user (which has the same audio engine as sequoia by the way!). Download the demo at sawstudio.com and see for yourself.
Old 7th May 2006
  #16
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Sensater's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=mosrite
thats interesting. Although when you say you have a card does that not imply you are not using Pyramix native (or am I getting confused)?[/QUOTE]

My main rig is a non-native Pyramix with 1 dsp card and AES I/O card.
I also have a native system. I've only used it for editing and light mixing, I've never tried to record with it. But, from the Merging.com website:

"Essentially, Pyramix Native has a maximum of 8 inputs and outputs with 24 audible editing tracks at 1FS (12 at 2FS and 6 at 4FS), with appropriate software option) and does not require Merging’s Mykerinos DSP hardware technology. A Range of third-party USB/IEEE 1394 audio interfaces are supported and listed below."

My main requirements were good sound, editing features, mastering features, and price. I tried to look at Sequoia but getting a demo from the distributor was like pulling teeth. I have no doubt it would be great for what I do. Lots of former Sonic Solutions users like myself have moved on to Sequoia and rave abotu it, and lots of serious mastering engineers use it (ie, Sterling Sound). Sequoia plus a Lynx card was also a lot more $$ than Pyramix. So where I work we purchased 4 Pyramix non-native systems and 6 native systems. And I got one for myself. BTW, our native systems at work are only edting stations, we don't track with them. At least not yet....I might try hooking up our MOTU box one day!
Old 8th May 2006
  #17
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Quote:
Tone Control
4 Band Parametric EQ
Dynamics processor
4 Channel Record Inputs
4 Channel Playback Outputs
24 Audible Internal Editing Tracks at 1FS
Real-time Editing
Source/Destination Editing
Track Grouping
Up to 48kHz sample rate
CD Import
Direct-X and VST capability
Supports, PMF, WAV, BWF, AIFF, SD2, OMF and CD Image audio formats as standard.
Thats from Merging's website. Seems to be a slight contradiction. In this list it says 4 channel recording inputs. I think you have to step up to the Media bundle to get 8. Also, 48khz is a bit harsh in this day and age and 24 tracks limits would be nice to get away from (as occasionally I do have a clients project that eats them up and PT LE has always frustrated me with that). Having said that I am sure its a very stable platform but this list of "restrictions" is exactly why I reckon they've missed a trick. Its worse restrictions than in PT LE!

Quote:
Your answer is Sequoia or Samplitude...the absolute heat
Sequoia should be, I just looked at the price for the software!

Whats Samplitude like in comparison?

Pity about that Pyramix....looked so nice as well...
Old 8th May 2006
  #18
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Take a peek at Soundscape.

Haven't lost a take in 12.5 years

www.sydec.be
Old 8th May 2006
  #19
I've been joking for years that all you need is Auto tune and Beat Detective for Pyramix.

A hur ahur ahur..... (cough)

Hello?

Ware iz everybodee ...?
Old 8th May 2006
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Another strong vote for Sequoia, if you can accept its price. It´s top-end and very friendly. If you cannot accept price, go for Samplitude. Try it!!!
Old 8th May 2006
  #21
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Samplitude is missing some of the finer mastering options of Sequoia(4 point crossfade editor, ability to use some of the Algorithmix plugs, etc) but you might not even miss them.

Teddy
Old 8th May 2006
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Yes, this is why there is so drastic pricing difference between them... And also I heard that Sequoia have better CPU optimalization. It really works good on slow machines!
Old 8th May 2006
  #23
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Roland's Avatar
I think its fair to say that Pyramix native is aimed at radio production/stereo editing side of the market, those that do not need the "horsepower" of the VS system.

The benefit of the full blown Pyramix VS is that its features are only possible rivelled by systems such as Pro-Tools HD and Sadie. Argueably all these systems have their niche markets. Sequioa is without doubt a good system, but because it is software only it will have its own limitations.

If I was multitracking bands in a studio situation I think that Pro-tools would be my weapon of choice, as much as anything for compatibility. Pyramix's strengths are its multitrack recording, sound to picture, multitrack editing. Many of its users are in film editing/post, location recording for radio/tv broadcast. It is not cheap, but its versitility is reflected by its price.

regards



Roland
Old 8th May 2006
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite
Thats from Merging's website. Seems to be a slight contradiction. In this list it says 4 channel recording inputs. I think you have to step up to the Media bundle to get 8. Also, 48khz is a bit harsh in this day and age and 24 tracks limits would be nice to get away from (as occasionally I do have a clients project that eats them up and PT LE has always frustrated me with that). Having said that I am sure its a very stable platform but this list of "restrictions" is exactly why I reckon they've missed a trick. Its worse restrictions than in PT LE!

edit:

Pity about that Pyramix....looked so nice as well...
Well if you buy the most basic version you're stuck at 48k and 4 I/O. If you buy the media bundle software package you get high sample rate support and 8 I/O. So you can't say it's limited to 4 I/O...it is indeed capable of more, if you buy the option. Honestly I'm not pimping Pyramix, just pointing out that it can do what you say it's a 'pity' that it can't. Except for more than 24 tracks I guess. Seems like you've got several good choices.....what about Sonar for instance?
Old 9th May 2006
  #25
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Mosrite,

I can answer your post because I've worked with Pyramix for about a year now as well other DAWs that were mentioned. Pyramix has advantages that most others don't. It's a very analitical program. There's a reason it is prefered only to Sadie. First off, it only handles audio. I personally feel many DAWs favor either audio or midi. Pyramix will do almost anything you can think of! However, the drawback is the learning curve. Also it is expensive! With the high sample rate option, you're up to 1700!
Version 5 is quite an improvement. I was there for the growing pains from 4. But the V5 native software is ASIO friendly. I auditioned many DAWs last year. Only 2 remain. SX3 and pyramix. Merging's support has alot to be desired, but that seems to be the only thing that is not "pro".
Check out the website and the forum. You don't have to own the program to ask questions. And for some odd reason, there is no demo!

Don
Old 9th May 2006
  #26
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S
Mosrite,

I can answer your post because I've worked with Pyramix for about a year now as well other DAWs that were mentioned. Pyramix has advantages that most others don't. It's a very analitical program. There's a reason it is prefered only to Sadie. First off, it only handles audio. I personally feel many DAWs favor either audio or midi. Pyramix will do almost anything you can think of! However, the drawback is the learning curve. Also it is expensive! With the high sample rate option, you're up to 1700!
Version 5 is quite an improvement. I was there for the growing pains from 4. But the V5 native software is ASIO friendly. I auditioned many DAWs last year. Only 2 remain. SX3 and pyramix. Merging's support has alot to be desired, but that seems to be the only thing that is not "pro".
Check out the website and the forum. You don't have to own the program to ask questions. And for some odd reason, there is no demo!

Don

Support can seem a bit patchy, however if you call your dealer or contact them direct in Switzerland usually things get sorted out almost straight away.

As for the demo situation, I don't think that Pyramix is really the sort of programme you can just work out by yourself, really you need a dem, any of the Pyramix dealers are happy to provide that for customers. Certainley in the UK Paul Mortimer from Total Audio is as helpful a guy as you could wish for!

Regards to all


Roland
Old 9th May 2006
  #27
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Haigbabe's Avatar
 

I'm given to understand that in this country, Pyramix is outselling PTHD by a long long way.

And I don't think Pyramix is after the "small fry" with its native stuff either (a la PTLE).

It's a powerful program, or so it seemed at the couple of demos I attended and tutes I was given.

Best regards,

Haigbabe

PS We still use SADiE and Samp.
Old 9th May 2006
  #28
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Don S's Avatar
 

Haig,

I'm glad it's gaining in popularity. It's growing here in NY. They're starting to pay more attention to the native. I would hope because of cost. With a High sample rate option, you're up to the cost of Nuendo or Sequoia. They're realizing that at that price point they have competition! Nuendo sounds good and is very easy to use. I personally could not afford a Sadie sytem. Most of my work is CD production, so the native system does everything I need.

Don
Old 9th May 2006
  #29
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S
Haig,

I'm glad it's gaining in popularity. It's growing here in NY. They're starting to pay more attention to the native. I would hope because of cost. With a High sample rate option, you're up to the cost of Nuendo or Sequoia. They're realizing that at that price point they have competition! Nuendo sounds good and is very easy to use. I personally could not afford a Sadie sytem. Most of my work is CD production, so the native system does everything I need.

Don
How much is Pyramix? I paid 3G for Sequoia, though it is worth every penny, and ive nearly made my money back.
Old 9th May 2006
  #30
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.RayBullard
How much is Pyramix? I paid 3G for Sequoia, though it is worth every penny, and ive nearly made my money back.

The Native bundle starts at around £400 and I believe the enhanced version is less than £700. If you want the full VS system realistically you are looking at £5,000 - £20,000. I would suspect that the prices are going to be comparable to Sadie and to a certain extent pro-tools.

Because the system is available with both AES and Madi cards (amongst other formats) it is popular for mastering and it interfaces with a lot of modern digital desks like the Studer Vista, Euphonix, Digico etc.

Regards


Roland
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