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I just won the lottery: Recommend big old bassy tracking monitors
Old 31st January 2012
  #1
Gear Nut
 

I just won the lottery: Recommend big old bassy tracking monitors

I didn't actually win the lottery but I did come upon some decent cash. I want to invest in better studio monitors that can handle uncompressed 16-foot keyboard bass notes and the low end of a bass guitar for tracking. I've never used a sub. I just need that big old bottom end without any buzz or bottoming out. I've heard the Dynaudio Bm15a's are pretty epic? The room is treated but not too large. I want to float in a heaven of bassy-ness.

Piggles
Old 31st January 2012
  #2
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Kinosita monitors with TAD drivers are about the pinnacle that technology... at least in my experience... YMMV.

Peace
Old 31st January 2012
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Kinosita monitors with TAD drivers are about the pinnacle that technology... at least in my experience... YMMV.

Peace
"Our monitors reproduce 9HZ!"...Wow, if that wasn't an ad for the blatantly ignorant then I don't know what is. I guess I'll have to buy a boat to have them ship 2 300kg elephant speakers.
Old 31st January 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 

If I may interject:

You want your tracking monitors to be flat. If they are bass crazy, your recordings will be bass shy. There is really no reason to not use the same monitors you use for mixing. So if you're upgradin', look for something that goes low but is accurate enough to also mix.
Old 31st January 2012
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat View Post
If I may interject:

You want your tracking monitors to be flat. If they are bass crazy, your recordings will be bass shy. There is really no reason to not use the same monitors you use for mixing. So if you're upgradin', look for something that goes low but is accurate enough to also mix.
for sure. i don't want hyped, i want flat and accurate but has the capabilities to reproduce Zeus smashing down a whale.

my experience while tracking frequcies 28hz-40hz is that the speakers start to rumble or bottom out...or you have to pump them 4x the volume just to hear the note.
Old 31st January 2012
  #6
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by piglet View Post
"Our monitors reproduce 9HZ!"...Wow, if that wasn't an ad for the blatantly ignorant then I don't know what is.
I guess I'm blatantly ignorant... because they have that capability... and at a significant volume. Its not that you would [or should] ever need them to go to 9Hz... but there are elements of phase distortion that are introduced into monitors [and electronics... and a whole bunch of other stuff] when things are rolled off higher.

You had seemed like you were looking for "the best" in terms of low frequency reproduction... so that's where I pointed you. They have been installed in all the Hidley rooms I've worked in since the 90's that were rated at 20Hz and below... and seem to have been installed in those rooms for a reason.

I'm going to go back to my ignorance... please pardon the intrusion.

Peace
Old 31st January 2012
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
I guess I'm blatantly ignorant... because they have that capability... and at a significant volume. Its not that you would [or should] ever need them to go to 9Hz... but there are elements of phase distortion that are introduced into monitors [and electronics... and a whole bunch of other stuff] when things are rolled off higher.

You had seemed like you were looking for "the best" in terms of low frequency reproduction... so that's where I pointed you. They have been installed in all the Hidley rooms I've worked in since the 90's that were rated at 20Hz and below... and seem to have been installed in those rooms for a reason.

I'm going to go back to my ignorance... please pardon the intrusion.

Peace
Sorry man, I didn't mean to offend you...It's just that no human can hear 9HZ so I don't even know what the point is in mentioning that, seems kind of tacky....it's not even a note. I play some pretty darn low instruments.

I'm just messing with you. I bet these are the best in the world...But it would be pretty darn hilarious using a 300kg "monitor"...it's more like a wall of sound.
Old 31st January 2012
  #8
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
No offense taken - its about phase linearity... nothing more, nothing less... and yes, you can hear these things, but they might not be important to you.

You can't hear 80kHz either... but decently designed audio gear will go up to [and often] past 80kHz in its design -- again this goes to linear phase response through the spectrum of human hearing [and human perception].

There are lots of examples of these elements of audio that are outside the direct perception of human hearing making an audible difference in what is heard in the audible spectrum. If you have some spare time you might want to look into it. Rupert Neve turned me onto the concept one night at dinner [probably about 15 or so years ago]... since then I've done a little personal research into the phenomena... might be worth your time to do some similar homework... or not, I have no idea what's actually important to you.

Peace
Old 31st January 2012
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
No offense taken - its about phase linearity... nothing more, nothing less... and yes, you can hear these things, but they might not be important to you.

You can't hear 80kHz either... but decently designed audio gear will go up to [and often] past 80kHz in its design -- again this goes to linear phase response through the spectrum of human hearing [and human perception].

There are lots of examples of these elements of audio that are outside the direct perception of human hearing making an audible difference in what is heard in the audible spectrum. If you have some spare time you might want to look into it. Rupert Neve turned me onto the concept one night at dinner [probably about 15 or so years ago]... since then I've done a little personal research into the phenomena... might be worth your time to do some similar homework... or not, I have no idea what's actually important to you.

Peace
fair enough. thank you for your information. i sincerely appreciate tit. but ya, this money has got to go. i don't want a penny left. i want to be broke.
Old 31st January 2012
  #10
Lives for gear
 

If you ever do get your hands on speakers that go down to 9 Hz, you can totally make a haunted house.

A sin wave at 15 or 18 Hz or so can't be heard, but make it loud enough and it can be sensed. In nature only dangerous **** ever makes sound that low, so when it hits us we get uneasy like we're being watched or we're not alone. If it REALLY gets rattling it can even shake our eyeball fluid causing us to literally see things that may be on the surface of our eye/lens/glasses that we otherwise can filter out.

This is seriously the explanation behind a few real life haunted houses.

Legal disclaimer: If you crank it to 150 db and liquify somebody's kidney, don't come after me.
Old 31st January 2012
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat View Post
If you ever do get your hands on speakers that go down to 9 Hz, you can totally make a haunted house.

A sin wave at 15 or 18 Hz or so can't be heard, but make it loud enough and it can be sensed. In nature only dangerous **** ever makes sound that low, so when it hits us we get uneasy like we're being watched or we're not alone. If it REALLY gets rattling it can even shake our eyeball fluid causing us to literally see things that may be on the surface of our eye/lens/glasses that we otherwise can filter out.

This is seriously the explanation behind a few real life haunted houses.

Legal disclaimer: If you crank it to 150 db and liquify somebody's kidney, don't come after me.
sweet, thanks man. okay i am calling that company and getting them to build me a custom 25-foot tall woofer that my house can fit inside. I want the frequency response to go down to at least negative 20 hertz.
Old 31st January 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 

I don't know if this is for real or not....
Old 1st February 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by piglet View Post
"Our monitors reproduce 9HZ!"...Wow, if that wasn't an ad for the blatantly ignorant then I don't know what is. I guess I'll have to buy a boat to have them ship 2 300kg elephant speakers.
AH.... HAHAHAHHAHA

piglet, meet Fletcher.

I see nothing wrong with speakers that can extend down to subsonic frequencies. It doesn't mean that they are hyped in any way (for example), nor does it mean their marketing is inaccurate.

It DOES mean you need one hell of a custom built room to work with them to allow it.

And if you think are bad.... you should have been the pair of Hartsfields I used to have in my living room.

HARTSFIELD

anyway... back on topic....

so I sense that you're looking for more realistic answers for normal sized rooms like in your home studio or similar? or is this for a dedicated control room in a dedicated recording studio?
Old 1st February 2012
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
excellrec's Avatar
 

You can certainly feel below 20-30hz, which is still worth capturing in my opinion. These frequencies occur in reality, and can be felt. If you are in the business of capturing and recreating all aural events created in the environment you are recording.. then this spectrum of audio may be relevant to you.
Old 1st February 2012
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by excellrec View Post
You can certainly feel below 20-30hz, which is still worth capturing in my opinion. These frequencies occur in reality, and can be felt. If you are in the business of capturing and recreating all aural events created in the environment you are recording.. then this spectrum of audio may be relevant to you.
hehe. of course you can hear notes 20-30hz. Octobass, contrabassoon, bottom note of piano, lowest 5 string double basses and bass guitars.

Yes, despite my good grace with money I am looking for speakers that retail investors or pro studio guys would still use. Not looking for a boutique speaker, just something available to buy online that sounds awesome. Dynaudio Bm15A or is there "better"?
Old 1st February 2012
  #16
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat View Post
In nature only dangerous **** ever makes sound that low
I LOVE this post heh
Old 1st February 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
suedesound's Avatar
 

i love me some bm15's, but if you want to really crank them (like it sounds from your posts) they will distort. i've had them to the point of cones looking like they're gonna fly out of the thing. and still not loud enough. i know people will knock me for listening like that but when you've barely slept and working 15+hr days for 5 days in a row with a hardcore band sometimes these things happen.
Old 1st February 2012
  #18
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by piglet View Post
i don't want a penny left. i want to be broke.
Well you've certainly chosen the right industry!!! If you work hard enough you can pretty much get to homelessness in damn near no time!!

Peace
Old 1st February 2012
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by suedesound View Post
i love me some bm15's, but if you want to really crank them (like it sounds from your posts) they will distort. i've had them to the point of cones looking like they're gonna fly out of the thing. and still not loud enough. i know people will knock me for listening like that but when you've barely slept and working 15+hr days for 5 days in a row with a hardcore band sometimes these things happen.
How loud were you trying to get? I can mix at a lowish volume but like to track reasonably loud.
Old 1st February 2012
  #20
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suedesound's Avatar
 

didn't measure but i'd say around 100db. the studio also had huge westlake mains that i used for tracking. i feel ya on the loud thing, it keeps the band excited. i have a bleeding ear tattoo and my old production partner got loud in sign language for how deafly loud we like things
Old 1st February 2012
  #21
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by suedesound View Post
didn't measure but i'd say around 100db. the studio also had huge westlake mains that i used for tracking. i feel ya on the loud thing, it keeps the band excited. i have a bleeding ear tattoo and my old production partner got loud in sign language for how deafly loud we like things
Well, that's just WAY too loud. 100db is the equivalent to a jackhammer going off next to you. Anything above 75 for prolonged periods is going to destroy your ears and most certainly speakers. There is absolutely no reason to track, mix or master at such a volume.
Old 1st February 2012
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
cl-audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by suedesound View Post
i love me some bm15's, but if you want to really crank them (like it sounds from your posts) they will distort. i've had them to the point of cones looking like they're gonna fly out of the thing. and still not loud enough. i know people will knock me for listening like that but when you've barely slept and working 15+hr days for 5 days in a row with a hardcore band sometimes these things happen.
Get the passive BM 15's (BM 15p) with a killer amp (Bryston 4b or something like it). Kicks some serious ass. I always felt that the active BM 15a's are way under powered.

Hope this helps,

Claudio
Old 1st February 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 

instead of asking opinions, go to the people who build the monitors.
Tell them what you want and listen to what they offer and then make your decision.

The truth is...if you can't hear it, then buying on a recommendation is idiotic.
Old 1st February 2012
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cl-audio View Post
Get the passive BM 15's (BM 15p) with a killer amp (Bryston 4b or something like it). Kicks some serious ass. I always felt that the active BM 15a's are way under powered.

Hope this helps,

Claudio
Either that or I'll just buy some trees, rubber and slave labor to construct 25-ft tall monitors that make your kidneys explode.
Old 1st February 2012
  #25
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thepilgrimsdream's Avatar
 

What speakers can I buy that produce the brown frequency?
Old 1st February 2012
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepilgrimsdream View Post
What speakers can I buy that produce the brown frequency?
Those are known as crap speakers.
Old 1st February 2012
  #27
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suedesound's Avatar
 

auratones then? brown and crappy
Old 1st February 2012
  #28
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suedesound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Well, that's just WAY too loud. 100db is the equivalent to a jackhammer going off next to you. Anything above 75 for prolonged periods is going to destroy your ears and most certainly speakers. There is absolutely no reason to track, mix or master at such a volume.
i completely agree and i don't do it often, but as said sometimes it makes sense. i also have been playing drums for 20 years and have been in live sound for quite awhile. i know i have damage but i also know what sounds right. btw 83-85db is the best for fletcher-munson curve, you may want to monitor a bit louder (could help with your low end problem).
Old 2nd February 2012
  #29
Tannoy System 215DMT
Old 2nd February 2012
  #30
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepilgrimsdream View Post
What speakers can I buy that produce the brown frequency?
Well, you can buy a peavy bass amp for 100 dollars that produces those notes fine...however, those aren't to be used for tracking/mixing/recording.
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