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Unhappy with snare mic, advice please!
Old 22nd December 2011
  #31
To the OP, what you never really said was what the sound was you were getting, I suspect what you were getting is a lot of top head ring, instead of sounding like a snare it sounds more like a hi pitched tom, the trick around this is all about mic placement, over the years what I discovered consistently works is this, take a mic and pretend your micing the shell, then you want to be about an inch back from it, then raise that mic so it's now just poking over the rim, sometimes not even entirely over. You;ll find you get more snap and less top head ring. Then take another mic and instead of micing the bottom, mic the shell, try to keep the mic the same distance away from the snare drum. You might have to switch the polarity on the shell mic. What you'll get is this, the same top that you'd get from underneath, minus the extra kick bleed and minus the ugly ratty tone as Fletcher described so well, sounding like something is broken.

As far as mic choice you want a bright mic for the shell and maybe try your Beyer for the top, since it's back a little it might not overload so easily and you'll get a much nicer snare sound with NO eq. I use condensers for this usually an AKG 460 on the top and either an Earthworks SR77 or a Peluso Cem6 for the shell. If you absolutely feel like you have to have the mic pointing down at the top of the snare, try a Sterling ST 31, it's a 99 dollar mic that Michael Wagner likes. But it doesn't at all work with my micing technique.
Old 22nd December 2011
  #32
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Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monsieur x View Post
Which drummer might you be speaking of BTW? Name starting with J (normally in LA), L (normally in NYC), or A? (He's Venezuelan)

PM me, I think we might know some of the same people.

--

Anyway, I don't like a microphone on the bottom of the snare, but the truth is I am very into hi-fi sounds. Never figured it out. I am sure there are great people getting great sounds with tools I'd never use.

I just use an RE20 on top, through an NPNG. Notch out the shell a bit with EQ if necessary. It also takes additive EQ in the top very well, never harsh. I get my very fast attack by making sure to use a fast pre, so I don't need to depend on EQ for "attack".

I can share examples of my drum recordings upon request.

Best,
My 2 favorites in town are Matt Crowning and Mark Poeiz. Both are versatile and since I do mostly rock, they both work well. Matt does well with country and Mark is awesome for hard rock and the one I was talking about from UM. He was the drummer for UM's CJB at one point and now the drummer for a band called 'Ghost of Gloria'. He's pretty phenomenal.
Old 22nd December 2011
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
My 2 favorites in town are Matt Crowning and Mark Poeiz. Both are versatile and since I do mostly rock, they both work well. Matt does well with country and Mark is awesome for hard rock and the one I was talking about from UM. He was the drummer for UM's CJB at one point and now the drummer for a band called 'Ghost of Gloria'. He's pretty phenomenal.
you should also check out Drew Betts, he's great and a total pro, he's in Tampa which isn't close, but florida musicians will travel.
Old 22nd December 2011
  #34
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Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
you should also check out Drew Betts, he's great and a total pro, he's in Tampa which isn't close, but florida musicians will travel.
I'll have to look him up, thanks for that!!
Old 22nd December 2011
  #35
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sonic dogg's Avatar
For those drummers who cannot get past what they're hearing on their earbuds while diddling themselves in front of a mirror, there's drumagog and any number of replacement/enhancement programs. I use the Massey trigger for midi replacement and it works like a charm.

I think you're kinda letting these self-important idiots reign in your room. They're probably trying to get these polished finished sounds on cheap steel import snares with 2 year-old heads and no idea of proper tensioning, tuning, and poorly out-of-round equipment with a beat-up bearing edge.

My suggestion is to take a snare into your room and record it with single hits on the quarter notes. Then make a track of it and gradually add the drumagog enhancement to it in several different samples. Present these to the drummers who want to meddle with the sound before you even push the red button. Tell em to be patient that this what we can get at mix and to just play the frikin parts right and shaddup.

Mic the shell as Fletcher suggested. Be sure you get a very positive hit so your replacement software doesnt false trigger and you're in the ball park. Your i5 is just fine for this though I remember reading someone suggesting the Beyer 201 which is one of the best snare mics in the world. Although theres two really old AKG's that work as well. D160 and D224.
Old 22nd December 2011
  #36
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A friend of mine just bought a Slate plugin, which was a drum sample replacement on steroids. When I remember what it was called..... But all I can say is that the cheap drum kit he recorded which might not have sounded that great, a few snare and kick tweaks, and it was a different beast.... In a good way!!!
Old 22nd December 2011
  #37
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dasoundjunkie's Avatar
 

One mic that's surprised me for snare is actually a tom mic, the Audix d-2. Punchy with good detail and great body. Very rarely will I use something else, this guy just works
Old 22nd December 2011
  #38
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
I do a couple things. First, beta57 on top, but a Neumann KMS105

As for the top mic, the biggest thing that made my sound better is not burrying the mic onto the top of the head. Back it up off the snare, make some distance and angle its pickup pattern toward the shell of the opposite end. Technically it's not just the top head that makes the snare sound, so backing it up allows for the mic to pick up a fuller, rounder sound from the instrument. Now, you just need to deal with the hi-hat, but I'm sure you can figure that one out. That's the best advice I can give.
Great advise! I like the Beta 57 better than the old SM57 as the Beta retains some of the higher freq's of the snare. The SM57 sounds like it has a sock over it. KMS 105 are also very good sounding mic's.
Old 23rd December 2011
  #39
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The Beyerdynamic m201 is my go to snare mic. It's does the trick 90% of the time.
Old 23rd December 2011
  #40
Somebody said earlier they don't like dual mics on a snare and I'm in agreement.

I've never seen the point. I've done it both ways and it's so much easier IMO to get the sound by moving a single mic around and finding the right spot. I'll move a 57 a dozen different ways before I change it on the snare. Rarely have to change mics.

Besides the close mics are support mics. The overheads are the key (assuming a natural kit sound in a room that can deliver a decent kit sound is the goal and source). I think it's misguided to try and get the close mic to sound completely polished when auditioned in isolation. In isolation close mics often don't sound all that impressive in raw recordings, hence the frequent use of EQ and compression (sometimes radically dialed in) to get them to sit stylistically "right".

As long as when you playback the whole kit and mix things sit right then you're good. Of course that's just my opinion, to each their own way, etc...

This all also assumes the kit is in tune, new skins, played well/consistently, etc.
Old 23rd December 2011
  #41
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monsieur x's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Estock View Post
The Beyerdynamic m201 is my go to snare mic. It's does the trick 90% of the time.
Doesn't distort, clean mid-range. Good for snare.
Old 23rd December 2011
  #42
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ARIEL's Avatar
Depends on your production style your going for . Some like the drum sound from the overheads , where as I like them tight and focused . All close miced with the OH acting only to catch the cymbals but cutting a lot of low end out . The sm57 is always the mic i go for and I have sampled about 80 snares in the past couple of years . Some snares are just garbage , others were not quite tuned too good .Also it depends on the person hitting it . Not too hard and not too soft getting a bit of the rim in the crack will give more punch , where as direct with no rim will be a bit fatter but not as hard.
I have recorded lots of drummers and only a few really knew how to hit it solidly on the same spot with the same dynamic . So for me , a sm57 at a 45 degree angle roughly , 2 " in and 3" from shell works great . Also I never use a bottom mic either .
Old 23rd December 2011
  #43
I have been using a [padded] sE3 on top through a la610 mk2 and 414 on the shell.. .. a 604 on top sounds good aswell
Old 23rd December 2011
  #44
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Estock View Post
The Beyerdynamic m201 is my go to snare mic. It's does the trick 90% of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsieur x View Post
Doesn't distort, clean mid-range. Good for snare.
As the Electrical Audio website says. The 201 is what an SM57 would sound like if it were a microphone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightOnRome View Post
I have been using a [padded] sE3 on top through a la610 mk2 and 414 on the shell.. .. a 604 on top sounds good aswell
I revied the sE4 a couple years ago and thought it sounded fantastic on SD.
Old 23rd December 2011
  #45
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If the drum is not tuned correctly, being the source of sound, it's not going to sound good. The old saying "poop in, poop out" comes into play here. I get great results with an SM 57, Beta 57 or Audix I5 on the batter head with a Sennheiser MD441 on the snare side. Being a drummer and very proficient in tuning, I would press the matter to the producer if I had to, to get a great sound out of the drum instead of something mediocre.

Dennis
Old 23rd December 2011
  #46
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
This indicates that the drum is tuned / sounds good... but I dare say it may not be the microphone... it sounds like a microphone positioning issue from the description.

Personally - I hate bottom snare mics... they almost always sound "broken" to me so I try to get the snare with 1 mic. Very often not mic'ing the top snare head is the ticket to happiness.

Try mic'ing the shell of the drum with the mic 3-6 inches off the side of the drum - aimed at the shell between the top and bottom rim. This position will give you no less "whack" from the drum, a good balance of "snares" and may very well lead you to the promised land.

Best of luck with the hunt.

Peace
+1 Fletcher! One of your newfangled M80s might not be a bad thing as well.....
Old 23rd December 2011
  #47
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useme2305's Avatar
 

unhappy with the snare sounds your getting from the mics at your disposal?
get an m201!
still unhappy?
think about changing your job!
Old 23rd December 2011
  #48
I agree that the Beyer 201 is an nice snare mic, and it was my snare mic of choice until I tried an AKG 460b on the snare, it just sounds more like the drum, it had more body than the 201. So my pair of 201's don't get as much use as they used to
Old 23rd December 2011
  #49
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tomdarude's Avatar
the Josephson e22 is such a gem on snare...as is a Neumann KM86..

I never liked 57s on SN...
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