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gearnut with $5k to spend....what to do?
Old 1st September 2002
  #1
Gear Nut
 

gearnut with $5k to spend....what to do?

sweet life, my loan was approved so now i have $5k to spend on gear , Plz help me spend it!!

I run a small studio where i record local acts, mostly rock/alternative, but ocasionally jazz and instrumental music. Ive gotten pretty decent results with the gear i have and clients seem happy and keep coming back and recommend my studio to others. I love recording and im hoping to be able to quit my day time job and do this for a living in the future.

This is what i have and a short description how i use it.

Digi001,PTLE 5.3.1
RME ADI-8 Pro 'main converters and masterclock.
Trident MTA IX-One 16channel Micpreamp 'main micpreamping.
Focusrite Voicemaster 'i use its compressor for vocal recording.
Behringer T1953 Tube Ultragain 2 channel micpreamp 'the tubes
glow nice in the rack. sucks as micpreamp.
TC Electronic M-ONE XL 'use it for reverb/effects conncected thru S/PDIF on the digi001, sounds ALOT better than the RTAS reverbplugs available IMHO. The converters on it sounds really fat so i use those from time to time.

ADK 51 x2 'drum OH's, vocals
SM57 x3 'snare, guitarcabs, vocals
SM58 x2 'vocals
AKG C414B-ULS x1 'room, vocals, acoustic guitar
Audio Technica ATM25 x1 'kick, basscabs


This is what im considering to get and why:

ADAM S2-A $2,252 'no need to motivate heh

Sennheiser e604 x3 $368 'i've had these mics on loan a while ago and they rocked on toms so i was planning to get my own.

Senheiser MD421 $336 'legendary mic, i want one

Beyer Dynamic M160 x2 $707 'i've heard good things about them and as im recording to digital ribbons would be great to have.

Neumann TLM103 $707 'a client brought one for a session and i liked it, so i 'm considering buying for recording vocals, acoustic guitar.

Avalon U5 $666 'i need a good DI!!!

Please feel free to comment the list and suggest alternatives.


Thanks
/mike
Old 1st September 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Re: gearnut with $5k to spend....what to do?

Quote:
Originally posted by -=glEnn=-
This is what im considering to get and why:

ADAM S2-A $2,252 'no need to motivate heh

Sennheiser e604 x3 $368 'i've had these mics on loan a while ago and they rocked on toms so i was planning to get my own.

Senheiser MD421 $336 'legendary mic, i want one

Beyer Dynamic M160 x2 $707 'i've heard good things about them and as im recording to digital ribbons would be great to have.

Neumann TLM103 $707 'a client brought one for a session and i liked it, so i 'm considering buying for recording vocals, acoustic guitar.

Avalon U5 $666 'i need a good DI!!!

Please feel free to comment the list and suggest alternatives.


Thanks
/mike
Have you looked at the Royers? sound great, take way more abuse than a ribbon should..


As for the Avalon.. maybe look into one of thise new FMR units The RNMP.. 2 channel pre and DI inputs.. the avalon is really cool, but I dont think I would go for a 500 DI with the other gear you listed.... multi-tasking is a very good thing
Old 1st September 2002
  #3
Skip the 421 untill you can get 3 of them for toms. (and you have a Kick mic already)

Skip the Avalon DI

Pool the money saved to get one mono Neve 1272 Avrill mic pre / di & use that for kick or snare and ALL other overdubs. Or a Neve dual pre clone and use em for overheads for the ribbons and all other overdubs.

It seems a very sencible list otherwie IMHO.

Old 2nd September 2002
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Hey Mike....

U should seriously consider the API channel strip.... Fantastic pre/ EQ/compressor and DI which will come into your budget and will eb just eh rigth thing for th indies/alternative gtrs and overdubs etc.
TOP SHELF Gear and will smoke most other channel strips around..

Once again the crew @ proaudioeuroppe/funkyjunk sweden will be able to help you out..

A royer is not a silly idea too...

But like most things here its a limted budget and maximum want.... the basis for economics.... duh i m boring... heheh

CYA
And serioulsy let us know how u r going!

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 2nd September 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 

I'd do what Jules says and get rid of the 421 and avalon DI and get a vintech 1272. Its 2 channels and I picked mine up for $1225 with shipping. Then if you get a couple more bucks, get the RNMP (if its good, im sure it will be though) and you'll have 4 good pres, 2 clean, 2 colored, and the vintech is good for a DI as well. Then you might as well throw in 200 more for a RNC (i read funk logic is making a rack for 1 RNMP with a RNC).

With all the stuff on your list your recordings will definetly go up a step.
Old 2nd September 2002
  #6
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I'd look into getting some small diaphragm condensors, a pair of cardiod would be good. After that, maybe the 103. Skip the Avalon DI and Sennheiser 604's. Instead get more 57's and a Countryman or BSS DI. Instead I'd get a pair of 421's and try to get a good preamp. The Vintech 1272 is cool, so are the OSA mic pres I have right now. Maybe an Avalon 737 or a Focusrite ISA 110 reissue. A Great River or Hardy M1 would also give you a lot of milage for a little cash.
Old 2nd September 2002
  #7
Gear Nut
 

great suggestions people!!
keep 'em coming!

I was considering getting a good mic pre at a later stage but maybe it would be best to do it now when i have the finances, It's alot faster and easier to save up for less expensive gear so i can put some of the stuff i want on hold for a while.


Updated shopping list:

ADAM S2-A $2,252
Sennheiser e604 x3 $368
Beyer Dynamic M160 x2 $707
Vintech 1272 $1600


Does anybody know a good dealer for Vintech in europe? Preferably in Germany or England? As i live in Sweden the tax when importing from the states is 25% so the $1300 1272 from Vintech Distrubution would cost me $1600 with taxes. Buying from a EU country you only pay tax in the country you're importing from. Germany currently has 17% tax and its cheaper there in general so there's alot of money to save importing.
The Vintech dealer in Sweden retails the 1272 for $2000


/mike
Old 2nd September 2002
  #8
Yahoooo!



I am excited for you!

Use the Vintech on Overheads when doing a kit. (or kick & snare as an option)

Old 2nd September 2002
  #9
Gear Nut
 

uuuuuuuuuhhhh SO AM I!!!!!



/mike
Old 2nd September 2002
  #10
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by -=glEnn=-

Updated shopping list:

ADAM S2-A $2,252
Sennheiser e604 x3 $368
Beyer Dynamic M160 x2 $707
Vintech 1272 $1600
Looks good, but I'd still pass on the 604's. I have a pair of them and while I like them they sound very similar to a 57. The 604 has a little more top to it. The only advantage is that they're smaller then a 57. But if you can't fit a 57 on some toms then the cymbals are too freakin' close anyway. I'd get at least one small diaphragm condensor. Maybe an SM81 or 451 reissue. What else is made on that side of the pond? Does Beyer make anything?
Old 2nd September 2002
  #11
Gear Nut
 

i really like the e604's alot, Ive tried sm57s on toms before but they didnt do it for me, the e604 sounds fuller IMO and i get the feeling the they have a litlle more low end, and i love that they're clipons so i can get a couple less micstands out of the way.
I have a couple of rock sessions in oktober with clients ive worked with before, and the e604 worked really well on the previous sessions so i figure i need to buy them now to have toms covered.

SD condensers is definitly on my to get list, but i think it will have to wait a couple of months, im considering the AKG C451B $367 or the Neumann KM184 $508 any experience with those?

Jay!, I looked at your homepage a noticed you have a Beyer M260 with the Stephen Sank mod. How do you like it, Did the mod improve much?
The orignal M260 is about $100 cheaper than the M160, do you know the differences between them?


thanks all!


/mike
Old 3rd September 2002
  #12
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
The 504 and 57 are pretty much interchangeable for me. The 504 is more scooped sounding, maybe taking some midrange out of a 57 will get you closer. Also, I really don't like either mic on florr toms. They don't have enough low-end for me so I reach for something like a 421, D112, 414, ATM-25 etc. Don't get me wrong, I like the pair that I have but I'm glad I didn't buy them new. If I was going to do that I'd get more SM57s. Both the 451 and KM184 are great mics. You can't go too wrong with either one.

I got the M260 from a guy I used to work with when I had a day job and it sounded like a baby rattle. I never got a chance to use it as a stock mic. But I love the modded one a lot. The main reason I had Stephen do it was because it was about $120 cheaper then having Beyer re-ribbon it.
Old 3rd September 2002
  #13
Gear Nut
 

kewl...im considering getting the a pair of M260's instead of the M160's and have them modded by Stehpen. Or i might stick with the M160's and have them modded......aahhhhh....the choices, the choices.... rollz

I hear ya on the e604's, we'll see what happens..

/mike
Old 3rd September 2002
  #14
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
The mod was about $150 IIRC. Plus, you'll be voiding the warrenty on a new mic and paying shipping back and forth over the pond. M160's are good mics. The only real problem I'd see with any of them is matching them with a good preamp. Ribbon mics are usually at their best when matched with a good transformer input preamp. They'll still work, but they won't be at their full potential unless you use them with the Vintech all the time.

Also, because of the incredibly low output from a ribbon mic you'll need a preamp with a lot of gain and low noise. The Vintech usually has just enough juice for a loud singer when I'm using it with the 260DX but sometimes I need the Daking or VMP-2 which have 60-65dB of gain vs. the 50dB from the Vintech. Even as a room mic on drums I need about 40dB to make the 260DX average around 0VU at +4.
Old 3rd September 2002
  #15
Gear Nut
 

well my Trident Ix-one has 65db of gain and is also very quiet, (sounds really good too). It might just work well with the ribbons if i want to use the Vintech for something else in a multitrack situation, for overdubbing i will probably use the Vintech for the most part.

So..do you think i should stretch for 2 M160's or is the M260's good enough(i will defintitly ahve them modded?, I have no way to compare them so i have to rely on you guys

thanks
/mike
Old 4th September 2002
  #16
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I couldn't tell ya. Best of luck with it.
Old 5th September 2002
  #17
Here for the gear
 

Vintech/Brent Averill/Dan Alexander 1272

Has anybody had a chance to compare these?

The price difference is pretty substatial between the Vintech or DAA 1272 and the Brent Averill racked unit... Why should I drop an extra $600 for the Brent Averill model (besides the fact he's a great guy...)?

-c
Old 5th September 2002
  #18
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

the 604's ROCK on toms. i like them better than 421's, certainly better than a 57... they sound NOTHING like a 57. toms sound so freakin huge with the 604's. and i have had plenty of comments regarding how i get toms to sound...604's.

i also got a helluva deal on them, $150 for 3.
Old 5th September 2002
  #19
Gear Nut
 

thats my experience with the 604's too, i like them alot.

Isn't Brent Averill racking real Neve parts?

/mike
Old 5th September 2002
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Tim L's Avatar
 

I find the e604's to be a very useful mic. Besides the obvious use for drums try these 'lil' suckers on electric guitars, real nice. The e604's are a very good bang for the buck mic and I certainly wouldn't brush them off. I don't allways use the clip on parts when miking drums because you don't get much range of adjustment but sometimes I do.
Old 5th September 2002
  #21
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

yeah, i do like how they arent TOTALLY clip ons.
Old 6th September 2002
  #22
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Re: Vintech/Brent Averill/Dan Alexander 1272

Quote:
Originally posted by sheep dispatch
The price difference is pretty substatial between the Vintech or DAA 1272 and the Brent Averill racked unit... Why should I drop an extra $600 for the Brent Averill model (besides the fact he's a great guy...)?
I own a Vintech right now. I used to own a Dan Alexander... had lots of issues on many fronts. I wouldn't wish one on my competitors. I haven't used the Averill in many years.

Am I the only one that's washy on the 604's? Is there any difference between those and the 504 which I own? I thought it was just the number.
Old 6th September 2002
  #23
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Re: Re: Vintech/Brent Averill/Dan Alexander 1272

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs


I own a Vintech right now. I used to own a Dan Alexander... had lots of issues on many fronts. I wouldn't wish one on my competitors. I haven't used the Averill in many years.

Am I the only one that's washy on the 604's? Is there any difference between those and the 504 which I own? I thought it was just the number.
The number is different, and there is a slight cosmetic change, where the 604's are dark gray/blue, and the body is shaped slightly different. The 504's are black. Internally, they are exactly the same mic. A reputable dealer who does his homework told me this, and I also took one of each to the studio for a listen. They sounded exactly the same, as expected.

Also, my Vintech 1272 has been a solid performer from day 1. I would not part with it. Plus it sounds f-in' great.

Still reluctant to use my R121's like they were SM57's though. Somebody tell me how you've done it without needing to send the mics in for repair, and I'll give it a try, seriously. I do want to try it.
Old 7th September 2002
  #24
121 in front of loud 4 x 12 no problemo. Often 1ft from bass drum, (with pop shield)

They will re-ribbon it for you Free once, from buy from Mercenary they will do it TWICE.

I had mine re done - (I had stored them in a damp room.... ooops!)

They were very kind about it.

yuktyy
Old 7th September 2002
  #25
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Ok enough being scared of my own mics! Today I'll try it. I'm guessing the pop screen is to keep kick drum air from being blasted into the ribbon? What if the kick has a front head with no hole? I guess there could still be some air displacement by the head flexing outward... I'll do this cautiously.

madd <---that was just for kicks.. one of my fav smilies lol
Old 7th September 2002
  #26
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i put my R121 on my kick about 2' out w/ no pop filter. sounds amazing. if you are still paranoid... you can slightly turn the ribbon off axis for more protection.
Old 9th September 2002
  #27
Gear Addict
 

well I thought I'd throw a plug in for the 421's, although I agree with Jules that 1is not as good as 3. Not only are they great tom mics they are great kick mics, with a lot more tone than the d112 thump. They are also pretty good sax mics and great on the cab of an amp. I have had pretty good results as a vocal mic on a few voices. I temper this post with the fact that I've never tried the e604, but some 421's in your kit will always be useful. Take care Logan
Old 10th September 2002
  #28
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
i put my R121 on my kick about 2' out w/ no pop filter. sounds amazing. if you are still paranoid... you can slightly turn the ribbon off axis for more protection.
I tried it out in front of the kick about 5' and all I can say is HOLY SHIT!! :eek: :eek: There's a big rubber-bandish "warm" low end character about it that I'm loving! Responds extremely well to pumping compression for my rock stuff.
Old 10th September 2002
  #29
Yarzzzzz it can add the missing 'pillow hit to the chest' / 'air puff' sub thats is often missing on digital bass drums. IMHO.

I have Fletcher to thank for this tip.

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