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Amazing Rack Delays.. They don't make I'm like the used too!
Old 21st November 2011
  #1
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Amazing Rack Delays.. They don't make I'm like the used too!

Went on a little tear and bought some old rack delays, Ibanez AD 202, Korg SDD 1200 and Korg SDD 2000... All I can say is they don't make them like they used too.

All three have tons of character, and the Ibanez is Analog, it is a pure mojo box, AMAZING!
Old 21st November 2011
  #2
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Fletcher's Avatar
It gets better... like the old blue MXR stuff for example... not to mention other stuff like the Mexicon PCM-41... or the "Cooper Time Cube"
Old 22nd November 2011
  #3
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Or my favorite, the Yamaha E1010. It used 4 MN3005 and an MN3008 chips for 300 msec of delay (allowing the low pass filter to be set much higher) and still manages to be smoother than the AD202 (which always felt a bit harsh for guitar to my ears).

AS for old digital, they still built the analog components with more care than most of the "disposable" stuff now, much better AD/A but crappy analog. Blueface MXR was cool too, sort of spanning the end of analog/beginning of digital. I still have my pitch shifter...
Old 22nd November 2011
  #4
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axisdreamer's Avatar
I have an Ibanez AD230 rack analog delay and it sounds wonderful,does spaceship efx when you turn up the feedback.You can see one on ebay right now like mine.

Also the Yamaha D5000 is a great sounding stereo delay.wow!!

and my Korg dd2000 ,sounds great as well with some eq.

MXR Flanger/Doubler phat and big sounding!
Old 22nd November 2011
  #5
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Don't forget the deltalab Effectron.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #6
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Since we're discussing old rack delays..
Anyone know what a good current price is for an SDE 3000?
Old 22nd November 2011
  #7
I've got an Roland SDE2500, a Yamaha E1010 and a Korg DL8000R in my delay rack. Use all three. All are fantastic delays and i will never sell them.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #8
OK... I can see the credulous newbs and the easily hypnotized reading this thread and rushing off to buy 10, 15, 20 year old digital and analog delays just because they're rackable...

I'm curious -- since you guys are so sold on these "amazing" rack delays, just what does a rackable digital delay bring to your efforts that a well featured digital delay plugin doesn't have?

And with regard to analog bucket brigade delays -- what do they bring besides loads of hiss and/or diminished high end resolution?



For the record, because I've been doing this a long time, I have three rack delays, as well as 4 rack multi-FX boxes that have their own configurable delays. And before I set up my project studio, I was the frustrated user of more than a few analog rack delays in various studios. The only analog delays I, personally speaking, could ever tolerate were tape based delays like the Echoplex or SpaceEcho.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #9
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For me it's all in the grain, like film grain 9Blue MXR)
Old 22nd November 2011
  #10
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leaper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I'm curious -- since you guys are so sold on these "amazing" rack delays, just what does a rackable digital delay bring to your efforts that a well featured digital delay plugin doesn't have?

And with regard to analog bucket brigade delays -- what do they bring besides loads of hiss and/or diminished high end resolution?
I'm another fan of these old school delays and use them frequently. I turn to them for ease of use and character. Perhaps there is some plug in chain that mimics the way a SDE 3000 will roll off harsh mids but still somehow sound lush and airy, how a Yamaha E1010 adds more body than the original signal and a sort of darkness that allows the delay to fit effortlessly in the middle of a mix, the grit and weight from a PCM 41?
Hell! Maybe there is a plug in as vertigo inducing as the Roland RE-3?
These boxes just sound "right" and save me from plug in antics.
Said antics being a recreation of these aforementioned qualities. Things that I've come to expect from a delay line. Haven't found a reason to sell my delays yet.
Some of these boxes use bucket brigade chips and seem to do just fine as far as hiss goes. No doubt the apparent high frequency roll off can only help matters.heh
One of the most sublime moments in bucket brigade design must be the Roland SDD 330. Get your gain staging right on that box and it sounds pretty damn quiet.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
It gets better... like the old blue MXR stuff for example...
You mean you liked those??????

I bought two blue MXR digital delays new in 1976 at a grand each. Which were considered low end city. Both decked out with four memory cards inside for a grand total of 1 second or so of delay. It was all I could afford in 76, but at least I then had access to simple 40-80msec delay for ambience/pan placement, or to delay reverb sends. But lemme tell you how snooty Eventide or Lexicon guys could get if you even mentioned the blue MXR delays in their midst back then.

Just sold em recently and you wouldn't believe how fast they were grabbed up.

Just sold my vu dbx 162s and 161s too. Zap. Gone in a minute.

Sold my gray MXR analog delay (the one you had to use a wall plug with) about a month after I bought it in 79 or whatever. Very boring range of sounds after a week or two of playing with it. Easily replaced by plugs now.

Known as dogs in their normal lifetime in the market. No... actually... known as low-end back in the days when there was no such term.

Ibanez stuff came along even after and woulda been, lower-than-low-end I guess.

People will buy anything nowadays if it's old enough. The mxrs etc weren't fantastic... they were just old. And easily replaced by plugs.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #12
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O.F.F.'s Avatar
 

I do love my Klark Teknik DN-34 Analogue Time Processor even though I could make a decent amount of cash selling its 16 SAD512 delay chips one by one.
(I was offered £60 per chip at one point.)
Old 22nd November 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I'm curious -- since you guys are so sold on these "amazing" rack delays, just what does a rackable digital delay bring to your efforts that a well featured digital delay plugin doesn't have?
Uh, quite a few of us still mix OTB with no DAW
Old 22nd November 2011
  #14
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My rack delays
  • Yamaha E1010
  • Korg SDD-2000
  • Korg SDD-1200 x2
  • Korg SDD-3300
  • Eventide H969 (yes it has a delay line)

The SDDs aren't redundant - they all have features the others don't. Very cool boxes.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #15
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O.F.F.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I'm curious -- since you guys are so sold on these "amazing" rack delays, just what does a rackable digital delay bring to your efforts that a well featured digital delay plugin doesn't have?
Dirt and unpredictable imperfection.

Or in other words analogue puts the funk into it, digital doesn't or only withy severe difficulties.
Some music needs funk to live, some doesn't.


(Sorry I missed the digital bit in your post, I don't really care about digital delays. Might as well use a plug in.)
Old 22nd November 2011
  #16
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RusRant's Avatar
 

I am a delay junkie, but other than a few tape delays, I have sold off most of my delays. Plugs pretty much handle what the few I have kept can't.

I do miss my SDD-2000, but I refuse to spend $250+ for one now. Bought mine way back when for $60 in almost new shape! That said, I do wish someone would release a new and very versatile hardware delay unit.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #17
OK, then. Thanks for answering my question.

Certainly I get the OTB mixing angle. (And please pardon my parochialism in not acknowledging that in my earlier post.) Mixing OTB was, of course, how I ended up with all that HW in the first place, although I haven't mixed OTB for most of the decade.

Character, of course, is subject to personal taste/preference. Noted that some feel that character as more limited to analog delays, although I'm happy to concede that, particularly in the case of earlier digital delays, the, let's say, character of conversion could vary greatly.

Honestly, the analog delay that I still crave is that which I got with my old Echoplex or the Roland Space Echo's I used to use in a number of studios I worked in. I guess it's my roots tripping out to dub in the 70s, but nothing has really moved me in delay quite like the delay peg on my Echoplex... swing that thing back and forth and you've twisted the time-space-consciousness continuum. Not to get poetic about it.


On about your business, guys. You never know when I might break down and really commit to ITB and sell my old gear. heh
Old 22nd November 2011
  #18
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skythemusic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
You mean you liked those??????

I bought two blue MXR digital delays new in 1976 at a grand each. Which were considered low end city. Both decked out with four memory cards inside for a grand total of 1 second or so of delay. It was all I could afford in 76, but at least I then had access to simple 40-80msec delay for ambience/pan placement, or to delay reverb sends. But lemme tell you how snooty Eventide or Lexicon guys could get if you even mentioned the blue MXR delays in their midst back then.

Just sold em recently and you wouldn't believe how fast they were grabbed up.

Just sold my vu dbx 162s and 161s too. Zap. Gone in a minute.

Sold my gray MXR analog delay (the one you had to use a wall plug with) about a month after I bought it in 79 or whatever. Very boring range of sounds after a week or two of playing with it. Easily replaced by plugs now.

Known as dogs in their normal lifetime in the market. No... actually... known as low-end back in the days when there was no such term.

Ibanez stuff came along even after and woulda been, lower-than-low-end I guess.

People will buy anything nowadays if it's old enough. The mxrs etc weren't fantastic... they were just old. And easily replaced by plugs.
I totally disagree. I haven't found anything that sounds like the AD-202, my effectrons, the D-Two, Boss SE-70, MXR stuff, Digitech PDS series, Dynacord, etc. I have tried extensively the PCM42 plugin versus my hardware and on lead vox there is no comparison. Maybe "ballpark" for some of these, but a $200 Chinese mic can be in the "ballpark" of a U47. Its the subtle differences, especially in the rolled off grainy hi end that make the difference for me. For me the older digital converters often have a magic that plugins, even when using the exact algorithm, cannot approach. That little extra, multiplied by today's 423 tracks, make the sum difference of a real vibe versus an inauthentic one.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1;7257519

I'm curious -- since you guys are [I
so sold [/I]on these "amazing" rack delays, just what does a rackable digital delay bring to your efforts that a well featured digital delay plugin doesn't have?

And with regard to analog bucket brigade delays -- what do they bring besides loads of hiss and/or diminished high end resolution?



.
A tone? A musical tone, even? You know, without any sense of lack of body or smell of plastic? Especially when you feed it back to itself. Plug delay eats itself when you do that. Not unuseable, but definitely not the same either.
Old 22nd November 2011
  #20
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sonic dogg's Avatar
I still kick myself for selling all those lovely boxes when it seemed the digital world was going to surpass the ability of them to give up exciting clean reverbrations and countless repeats. Sold: SDE 3000, SDD 2500, Klark Teknik DN34, several lower level delays and verbs of various ilk and the Roland Space Echo. WHO KNEW???

I got to keep the two (still) pristine SDE1000's and the Rev 7's because I'd be damned if I was going to accept $25 each just to get em out of the rack.

"Dirt and unpredictable imperfection" <----Word.
Old 23rd November 2011
  #21
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u b k's Avatar
 

I think I have a new mission. Woohoo!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 23rd November 2011
  #22
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I think I have a new mission. Woohoo!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Make it a real one. Or both, not 'just' a plug....please.heh
Old 23rd November 2011
  #23
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.F.F. View Post
Some music needs funk to live, some doesn't.

Quite possibly my favorite quote on this board, ever.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 23rd November 2011
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
OK... I can see the credulous newbs and the easily hypnotized reading this thread and rushing off to buy 10, 15, 20 year old digital and analog delays just because they're rackable...

I'm curious -- since you guys are so sold on these "amazing" rack delays, just what does a rackable digital delay bring to your efforts that a well featured digital delay plugin doesn't have?

And with regard to analog bucket brigade delays -- what do they bring besides loads of hiss and/or diminished high end resolution?



For the record, because I've been doing this a long time, I have three rack delays, as well as 4 rack multi-FX boxes that have their own configurable delays. And before I set up my project studio, I was the frustrated user of more than a few analog rack delays in various studios. The only analog delays I, personally speaking, could ever tolerate were tape based delays like the Echoplex or SpaceEcho.
The closest best plugin would be Soundtoys Echoboy, but it's really the character of these old delays that's difficult to replicate.

I'm a delay geek, lotsa hardware and plugs. Each has their place, but for me, for raw inspiration the old delays are it.

And knobs, love knobs!
Old 23rd November 2011
  #25
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AndyFromDenver's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbob1 View Post
Or my favorite, the Yamaha E1010. It used 4 MN3005 and an MN3008 chips for 300 msec of delay (allowing the low pass filter to be set much higher) and still manages to be smoother than the AD202 (which always felt a bit harsh for guitar to my ears).

AS for old digital, they still built the analog components with more care than most of the "disposable" stuff now, much better AD/A but crappy analog. Blueface MXR was cool too, sort of spanning the end of analog/beginning of digital. I still have my pitch shifter...
My father in law has an e1010 just wasting away in a closet. So frustrating to hang out and see klon centaur, Marshall silver jubilee, first year mesa boogies, old electrics, and all the great ibanez pedals, and not take 'em home...and sadly we just jam on the fender g dec to some cheesy tracks (j/k that's fine too)
The modulation on the e1010 really knocks that out of the park for me. Knob twisters delight
Old 23rd November 2011
  #26
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what would be a good analog delay just to use to set a pre-delay before hitting an AKG BX-10 spring reverb? want to keep the chain all analog and could use some pre-delay.
Old 23rd November 2011
  #27
Gear Nut
 

I keep a Lexicon Vortex patched into my interface, wonderful for some really strange sonic stew.
Old 23rd November 2011
  #28
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spacebass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
or the "Cooper Time Cube"
man i have a friend that has one in his studio and the thing is monster on BG vox
Old 23rd November 2011
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
Don Hearl's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoo69 View Post
what would be a good analog delay just to use to set a pre-delay before hitting an AKG BX-10 spring reverb? want to keep the chain all analog and could use some pre-delay.
an MCI 1/4" JH110 on varispeed, would be lovely.
Old 23rd November 2011
  #30
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skythemusic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAndImprov View Post
I keep a Lexicon Vortex patched into my interface, wonderful for some really strange sonic stew.

Forgot about that one. I have one of those too....indispensable. I just used it on some backwards guitar and it transformed a direct dull tone into something exceptional that we cranked in the mix.
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