I posted this thread before fully understanding the X-Desk, I would till love to hear your opinions, but no need to tell me they are completely different machines, so im trying to fully understand it all now. You can either leave some knowledge about the desks, or recommend a controller you know and have used. If your just going to spam the thread, id rather you let it die. Also if someone could add what application each is best for, id appreciate it.

Considering my newly found knowledge, I believe it could be possible that something along the lines of the Mackie Controller could possibly suit my needs best for right now, because of its much cheaper price, and similar functions to what I am looking for. So ill throw that in the mix. Please be constructive in your post, even if you don't help me with the products I have listed.

I'd say go with the Nucleus if you can go the extra 2K... The X Desk is just a summing mixer, and only has line level inputs, so an external preamp is absolutely necessary. The Nucleus looks like it'll have far far greater integration with a DAW, that's really what it was made for after all; you've got the preamps (and it's SSL... so they'll certainly be good enough) so with your recording needs, you won't have to buy another preamp.

When I first heard about the X-Desk I heard it was going to be 1.6k, so I thought OMG! SSL I love you! Lets check this bad boy out. Then when I saw it was 3k and what it had compared to what the Nucleus has I was disappointed, but I guess everything has a purpose.

Anyone know if the X-Desk comes with the Native Duende bundle? I believe the Nucleus does correct?

They are two completely different things. No offence, but it sounds like you just want a 'mixer looking thing' with 'Solid State Logic' written on it.

The Nucleus has no mixing capability - it isn't a mixer. The X-Desk has no control surface capability - it isn't a control surface. Of course, the Matrix does both, but it is many times more expensive.

Do you need/want a control surface for your DAW with 2 built in preamps, a simple monitor section, + basic duende channel strip + bus comp plugins for $5250?

Or do you want an analog mixer for latency free monitoring/cues, up to 22 inputs for summing, is expandable with x-rack/x-panda units for more inputs, and a slightly more featured monitor section with talkback for $3000?

Pick one...





(..or get both)

Having read both of your recent threads, at this stage in your career, i doubt either are that useful to you right now man.

Thank you for your opinion. I've never had my hands on either, so this thread is to have people tell me their opinions, and find the defects in what I do compared to what the desks can do. I assumed () that the nucleus was virtually the matrix, just without the analog circuitry and maybe a few less features (but with 2 Pre's ).

What do you mean when you say:
My idea on mixing is getting your levels correctly, doing any edits needed, all your automation, adding your compressors, reverbs, things of that sort, and anything else you need done before mastering. So are you talking about the fact it doesn't have the analog circuitry and summing amps?

By this you mean is not a controller, like the Nucleus or the Mackie MCU?

I will admit SSL holds my interest more then most companys. I didn't mean to come off as "I only wana use SSL products because they will make my music better" I just hear amazing things about them (and apogee) and I am going to have a bit of "extra" (I use that word litely) money on my next set of checks, so I want to get into the high end gear category. I plan to start an official home studio soon, and I will be using this to record people.

JoRillo, I can appreciate your enthusiasm in getting into this whole 'audio engineering' thing, but seriously the worst thing you could do is to rush into any purchase without even knowing what your buying. I definitely don't want this to come across to you in a bad way but don't let any money that you have right now burn a hole in your pocket.

Beatsmith is right, these two SSL products are completely different in what they actually do.

Stay here on GearSlutz - read up on as much as you can, and try not to ask questions that have been done over a thousand times already as the long established community that frequents this forum will get sick of you pretty quickly and you won't get any answers to your questions.

Questions like "SSL Nucleus or SSL Matrix" come across to those 'in the know' like "what should I get - a shirt or trousers?", well what do you need a shirt or trousers, two completely different things which serve completely different purposes.

Judging by some of the threads that you have already started it is very obvious that you are fresh into this field. Give yourself a couple of years at least in researching, learning off of others and building your experience with as minimal amount of gear that you need to accomplish what you are currently working on, or else you'll find that if you do rush into anything you'll probably end up with an expensive piece of gear that you don't even know how to use it to it's full potential and end up selling it and losing a heap of money in the strive to find what it is that you really want.

If you want to control software faders and also have a few inboard pre's go out and get a 003 or something, they can be have pretty cheap nowadays and will serve your purposes nicely (for now) - you'll have fader control, monitoring, on board pre's, enough in's and outs to keep you occupied for a while, and you also get the 'wow' factor from clients (friends) who come into your new project studio and admire the flashing lights and moving faders - and although they are a bit older they seem to be built better that most of the 'in the ballpark price range' controllers out there at the moment (ah la Avid Artist Series - which don't have the on board pre's or monitoring anyway).

Like most Gen Y's I know you want everything now, now, now. But recording, mixing and producing is something that only a lot of research, a bit of time and a ton of experience will get you good at doing - stick with it and in a couple of years when you are aware of the amount of sh#t that you need to know you'll be like, wow, I sounded like such a noob back then when I first got into this game

No harm intended, your choice to take the advise or not.

saggsy

I completely agree. There are a million different pieces of gear, and I want to know all about them. I had a different understand of what the X-Desk did when I started this thread, now im trying to find out what the differences are.

This is me starting the research.
I DEFINITELY understand what you mean, i've already started to annoy many people on here, and I know that, and to all of you out there (that arn't assholes) im sorry. I really do try not to post questions that have easy "Search it and get an answer" questions, but sometimes I don't know enough about a product to realize that what im asking is totally stupid. That is why I couldn't find information on the difference between the two, but if someone could help me out with answers it would prevent me from asking stupid things in the future.

If I had 1 person answer me and 9 people say something stupid and insult me, I would feel satisfied with asking my question, because I would know more. This is a user forum for asking questions, im new to the industry so I have alot of questions, and people who are on here to help others often seem as though they care more about venting their frustrations on others.

I ask my teachers a million questions a class aswell, so maybe im just to interested in this stuff.


I wish it was that easy. heh

You mean like I was a year ago? heh



I do appreciate the advice though, and I have been limiting my questions, and have started googling things also rather then just searching on the forum.

I'm basically just past the novice level and I do a lot of electronic music, too.

If I were starting out all over, I'd get a DAW of my choice and a Duet 2 (if Mac based). Grab a Daking Pre 1 and an SM7b and call it a day. I'd also grab a pair of Focal CMS monitors.

You can practice all day to your heart's content (on the setup I mentioned) and learn everything you need to know by coming on here and searching. You'll also save a ton of money. And yes, you could do great rap/electronic tracks with this setup.

As knowledge grows, get a nice condenser/ribbon or whatever new flavor that works for you.

Then I'd grab a compressor to trim a few dB going into the Duet...

This will keep you nice and busy for a while!

Cheers,
PB

Looks like im doing pretty good. heh

Don't get me wrong, I love my setup. Im just looking for the feel of a console and faders, without getting something I wont want in another year. I've thought about the 003 and stuff like that, but most of them get some pretty ****ty reviews. I also have another person who will invest in whatever I want to invest in, so its not like im doing this solo.

Do you guys think a Mackie Control Unit would fit my needs pretty well?

MCU gets some pretty good reviews, I just love the way that the 003 integrates with PT (i think the MCU would still only interface with PT via HUI - PT being my chosen software).

I've had mine pretty much since they came out, I've had absolutely no issues with it - although I've only ever really used PT for the most part and cannot give you any advise as to how well it integrates with other software.

I have seriously considered going Native HD with an OMNI but then I lose my fader control (pan, mute, solo, sends, sends to fader, plugin control on the control surface, transport, automation read/write/touch/latch/off) all of these things are really handy when you get used to using them via the console and not mouse clicking everything - just the ability to have tactile control over multiple faders, writing automation, control over multiple send levels via faders - all has a massive impact on the way that I mix the stuff that I do - nothing I do ends up with a sterile, set and forget, level or pan - then i've looked at what I consider as the best most affordable for what it does alternative and I would say its the Avid Artists Series with Eucon, but then they are plauged with bad reviews of build quality and also lack features that the 003 has.

saggsy

check out the midas venice f.....it connects to the computer with a single firewire cable and the desk it's self acts as your audio interface....
so no 003 or similar required..
it's pretty great value ...compact...quiet...and flexible....

Do you mean this? Avid Pro Tools|HD Native (Core + Omni I/O) | Sweetwater.com

And is this just a small version of this basicly? Avid Pro Tools|HD2 Accel PCIe (Core + HD I/O 8x8x8) | Sweetwater.com

Does the Midas series still get love? I know they were bought out is why I ask... by behringer.... I used the Verona and Siena and they were both great, but that was pre buy out. Never thought about using one for the home studio. I feel like putting my money into having a really good vocal chain and faders to mix and automate on, would be money best spent though.

You need to do some serious soul searching, are you going to mix in the box? Sum ? Or mix on a console? It seams either would be a serious investment for you, and either is going to determine how your going to work , none of these are a 4k or a Aws for that matter, but they could be workable.
Each are limited and this is about YOU and how YOU are going to work. YOU have to figure out if the limitations are limiting YOU! nobody on the earth or the Internet are going to get what YOU need!

Take your time and figure out what you can use.

Yes, for the most part in the box. A consule would be nice, but I don't think it would be the best money spent right now.
Thats why im thinking a real nice vocal chain, and some kind of controller. Im still a but hazzy on the suming amplifier stuation, and everytime I google it I get a bunch of schematics and **** I can't understand. Someone explained it to me once, but im still unsure of how it all works, something about flipping signal, and combinding it with a duplicate of the same signal. Care to explain a bit?

If your just starting to build your setup, I'd focus on your vocal chain first. A controller's nice to have, save's time and it adds a nice look, however it won't make your music sound better, it's a controller. I'd focus on a great mic, maybe a few pres, a nice compressor, and if you had the extra cash a high end ad converter.

Sm7b > Duet 2 > MacBook Pro. Personally, I like it for now.

On the other hand after I record all my tracks, I find that I HATE sitting at the computer mixing with the mouse. Seriously though, I have had two almost fully recorded mixtapes sittin on my computer about two-three weeks now and havn't even been able to finish mixing one of them. Im also in school right now, so im not "slacking" to bad, I just hate the feel of looking at a computer the whole time.

I basically only record myself and my roommate at the moment, and we are both VERY pleased with our sound. I have two other condenser mics for other options, but I like the Sm7b.

Louie S has good advise for you.

And no Native HD and a HD2 system are different - just do some research on TDM systems to see what they do and what they offer (and how long in the tooth they are now getting) and what the difference is between HD Native and HD TDM.

I cant reiterate enough though - its sounds like you have a pile of cash to spend and very little knowledge of what you need - take this buying process slowly and take Louie S's advice, get a nice vocal chain happening and you'll thank me/us later for getting you to hang onto your cash so that you can spend it on things that really matter and not just shiny knobs and flashy lights. Take the time to learn your DAW from front to back and get fast at operating it.

saggsy

what plugins do you have?

I hear ya!
I have an analog console and I mix with a hybrid approach with quite a bit of outboard. But I do all my fader moves etc in Tools for the recall. I also hate the keyboard and mouse and I am considering a Nucleus as well. It seems pretty good, very good if you have Logic, but pretty good if you have Tools. For me, the best aspect is getting back to faders.
If you feel unmotivated to mix because of the mouse, then something like the nucleus would be money well spent IMHO.

Oh I definitely agree that vocal chain is very important, I just feel that at the moment its not my weakest link. When I mix on my computer I tend to do things very mechanical when I'm using the mouse and I hate it. I have a bit of slight OCD so I always put my db lvls to .0 or .5, and stuff along those lines. When im sliding faders I don't even look at the screen until I have it where I want it.

Don't think if i ever put up a counter argument that I'm not listening to advice. heh

As for the money situation, I like to find out a product, set 1 big goal, and attack it when the time comes. I wouldn't be going out to buy one of these things tomorrow, even if everyone told me "Get X product" id still be researching it over the next few week before i make up my mind.

All the freeware I can find. Also I am looking into the Waves Renaissance bundle.

Have you ever used it?

SM7b is definetely a good start - you should look at a LDC as your next thing - Telefunken are making some really cool and affordable mics at the moment like the AK47 and AR-51 also Peluso has some good mics in the similar price range like the 2247.

You need a pop filter if you don't already have one - a bit of acoustic treatment or an SE Reflexion Filter and maybe a nicer pre/comp combination or channel strip.

Personally I'd be after a BAE 1073mfp or BAE 1073 full channel and a UA 1176 (expensive option) or channel strip wise a UA 6176 (cheaper option).

I'm not sure if your Duet allows you to bypass the internal pre's and just line in straight into the AD - if not in addition to the Pre/Comp/Channel Strip scenario I'd be selling my Duet and getting a better 2 channel AD/DA such as a used Apogee Rosetta 200.

This will set you up pretty nicely, but then you'll need a monitor controller as the Rosetta 200 is just an AD/DA - as you can see without researching everything you'll find that this gear buying thing just goes on and on and on and on........

Put it this way, I own a very modest setup and over the last 15 years I have spent about $60,000 on equipment - the gear lust bug will never leave me and it seems that you are also infected with the disease - good luck with your endevours.

saggsy

I own two LDC, an AKG P200, and an OSP STM-1300. Neither are "good" condensers, but they are two different flavors I have have, to go along with the Shure. Works for now.

I have 2 pop filters, a metal one, and a panty hose style material one.
LOOOTS of foam i've collected over the years, I know how to make a NICE.... well... idk what to call it... I guess a open sound booth, with sheets of foam, my mattress, and hanging moving blankets from my ceiling.
I also have a Reflection Filter, not the SE, but the $100 version, it does great things.
As for a channel strip i've thought about getting an SSL channel strip for quite some time, but I don't know if I want two very clean converters, so im still looking into that one. I will definitely want to get some Pre's in the near future, its jsut not my biggest concern now.

I can set the Duet to bypass the Pre's so its all good here. I want to own the Rossetta one day, but thats a while down the road.

I was bit before getting on this website, im infected for sure.

No worry's though. Im just trying to get all my areas covered, I WANT FADERS! lol

I have a bit of slight OCD so I always put my db lvls to .0 or .5, and stuff along those lines. When im sliding faders I don't even look at the screen until I have it where I want it.
[/QUOTE]

But you have to realise....it's not the equipment....you have to grasp that as quickly as you can...as for you OCD...you can work it into an advantage but a bit of chaos is very acceptable...inevitable...so lighten up (and backup your work!)

I think if i was a student and working in that kind of environment ...i would keep it simple for now.
you got our laptop...mic and speakers and a keyboard...do you have an audio interface?
I just bought the UAD special offer...which is the LA 610 MK2 bundled with a free UAD card or firewire box.
Its not cheap but it's a good package.
And i have spend more on the plugins as i went along.
I think its important for you to be able to move and store this equipment securely...so less is more...
My writing partner does great things with a laptop...cheap KRK monitors....budget edirol 24 bit interface and a keyboard i gave him...a mic...a couple of nice guitars...and £80 pounds worth of ableton!
it's NOT the equipment it's what you do with it.....PLEASE understand this!

I also think your friends will definately respect you more if you mix this **** before you get bogged down on more equipment.....
learn by doing!...not by shopping!
ALL the toys are not going to go away......and these pro audio guys will take your money real quick!!!!

p.s i really don't feel an SSL channel strip is the best big purchase....DEFINATELY get one on demo first...

i forget now what its like to mix without faders - it would be a major pain in the ass not to have them.

if thats what you've got your mind set on then look into the control surface thing, just be wary of controllers that only give you a MIDI type of resolution to your faders - if you want to teak things with finite control the 256 steps of midi resolution might not float your boat - for me it was 003, cause with PT at the time for LE there was not better solution for integration like the 003 - now they have controllers that support Eucon for PT9, previously it was either 00 series or stuff that had HUI support which only had the midi resolution so it was a no brainer for me - its tough though, the controller market it one which I feel needs a bit of a revamp in the semi pro area, im waiting for what appears with Avid updating the Artist series - I havent looked into the Nucleus though - it looks a bit clunky to me.

saggsy

Oh its definitely all in my head, but thats the problem. I just know that a good way to get around the problem is cut the link between my hand and the mouse for at least most of the mixing.

I think i've done a good job of that so far. Macbook Pro, Duet 2, and whatever Mic I feel like using is all I need.

Does the Mackie unit actually give a sound? I thought because its a controller it doesn't do ANYTHING audio wise, just a big mouse.

Im praying someone who has used both the Nucleus and Matrix will come on here. I used and ABSOLUTELY LOOOOOOOOOOVE the matrix. I feel like the Nucleus would suit my workflow 110%, but i've never used it, so I don't know how similar the two units are.

The mackie does nothing to sound its just a controller. I used to own one a few years ago, used it with protools, personally it wasn't for me, the faders weren't accurate, my faders would say one level and my faders in protools would say another, i actually mixed on a mouse until i got rid of it, i felt it made things slower.

This is how I feel about audio gear. Exhausted and beaten over the head with something new at every corner.

Do you happen to know anyone else personally who has had issues with it? I've heard some pretty good things about them, also heard some bad, but mostly good. When you say it was off, do you mean small amounts like .1 or things like 1, 2 db?

someone might want to correct me if im wrong but a midi controller will only ever give you 256 steps of fader resolution from bottom to top - where as a controller that has Eucon integrated will give you a resolution of 1024 steps from bottom to top of the fader travel.

Also - I hate to say this but all along I've been thinking that your talking about the Nucleus and the X-Desk not the Matrix (doh) I wasn't really awake earlier today !! My bad! - but with such a massive price difference i would have clicked on sooner if I didn't think you were comparing something worth $5000 and something worth $20,000.

The Matrix is a hybrid analogue mixer which also has a DAW controller built into it.

I would love a Matrix myself for the fact that I could use it to control levels within my DAW as well as split my mix up into separate outputs to then mix in the analogue world via the analogue section of the Matrix.

Then again - I still think the Matrix would only have PT control under the HUI protocol, which although quite integrated, would still be a bit lacking in the PT department especially considering how expensive the Matrix is - for what I would use the Matrix for I would probably have a separate DAW controller and a separate analogue mixer or summing box for stemming my mixes out of PT land for superior summing capabilities - this would be a cheaper option which would probably achieve very similar results instead spending like $20,000 on the Matrix.

Also for $5000 the Nucleus is over priced for what it does - there are cheaper better alternatives out there to get what you want without necessarily paying for the SSL logo on something.

saggsy

this is the best advise you'll get all day:

Stop typing and get reading - immerse yourself in loads of different topics and then read some more - then when you've had enough of reading, start reading about something else and then read some more.

there you go - I have researched this crap for years and years and am still learning - you have a bit of catching up to do - when I got into all of this there was nowhere near as much gear as there is now which made my learning curve easier at the start - now all I have to do is keep up with the new products that are released and work out where they sit in the whole scheme of things that have already been developed.

I do feel sorry for you but if you dont start somewhere you will be continually asking questions that dont have a definitive answer and therefore you wont get the right advise.

GET READING

saggsy