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Keep it real with RADAR II?
Old 21st September 2011
  #1
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crying1986's Avatar
Keep it real with RADAR II?

So ive been trying to decide if I should buy a couple of RADAR II's to use as my primary recording medium.

I am a pro tools ninja all the way, but every time I hear music on tv or the radio I want to kill myself. I feel like I am becoming part of the problem. I will keep a small PT rig on my MBP but that is all.

I would be using the RADAR systems with my console and would be tracking and mixing to them without the help of any DAW.

Am I crazy? I feel like something needs to happen...I cant stand feeling like I am a contributing factor to all of this horrible music.

How would you guys feel about working without a DAW, and basically without a computer? Sorry for the dramatic post. I'm in a strange mood.
Old 21st September 2011
  #2
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greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

I think you should do it - let the music flow!
Old 21st September 2011
  #3
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crying1986's Avatar
That's what I want! The MUSIC to flow...I feel like ive been playing with sounds. I want to engineer albums and songs. I guess it all comes down to workflow. I can rock a pro tools session like no other, but I've never even seen a tape machine in action...its sad.
Old 21st September 2011
  #4
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chriscasino's Avatar
 

I track to my euphonix R1 (via sony dmx-r100/madi)...simpler, more fun, etc. After I'm done, I go into the Mac/rme madi/logic....best of both worlds...If u feel a certain way about the way youre recording/how music in PT sounds to you, def. Pull the trigger. Your ears, your bread, your music, your studio.
Old 21st September 2011
  #5
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mitgong's Avatar
 

Nobody says you have to use PT a certain way. I still mainly use it as a tape machine. Maybe I'm too lazy to suck the life out of my recordings?
Old 21st September 2011
  #6
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PrettyGone's Avatar
 

I recently recorded a singer/songwriter friend of mine. He told me that he is a big Nick Lowe fan and wanted to get a sound like his contemporary albums, particularly 'Dig My Mood'.

So, I did a little research and discovered that these albums had been recorded/produced/engineered by a British guy called Neil Brockbank at his studio in London called Gold Top.

When I heard the album, I thought it must have been recorded to tape and so was a little surprised to read that Neil Brockbank uses a Radar system. I think it sounds amazing.

Anyway, my research turned up a couple of articles.

This one, which includes some talk with Neil Brockbank, is actually a more general piece about the decline of studios and the detrimental affects of modern technology, including Pro Tools.

This one is a short interview with Neil about some of his techniques etc.

Edit: I just quickly reread the articles I link to and neither of them contain any discussion of the Radar system! I know I read it in an article somewhere and will have another look for it and post the link if it turns up.

Hope this helps!

Old 21st September 2011
  #7
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79_Limited's Avatar
 

You will love the Radar however I encourage you to at least go with a Radar 24 and skip the II. Fully loaded 24's have been going awfully cheap on ebay lately. When I bought my 24 18 months ago they were harder to find but now it seems like one pops up now every week.

Warning though the Radar is super loud. I had to build a large iso box to make it tolerable in the control room.
Old 21st September 2011
  #8
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crying1986's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 79_Limited View Post
You will love the Radar however I encourage you to at least go with a Radar 24 and skip the II. Fully loaded 24's have been going awfully cheap on ebay lately. When I bought my 24 18 months ago they were harder to find but now it seems like one pops up now every week.

Warning though the Radar is super loud. I had to build a large iso box to make it tolerable in the control room.
Can I ask why should I wait for a 24? Is it the fact that they are newer and still supported? I was also reading about the II's lack of transfer options.

Also...if you dont mind, what would a fair price for a 24?

I can get a 48 track RADAR II system right now for under $2500.

Thanks for your input...I really need some insight to all of this right now.
Old 21st September 2011
  #9
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crying1986's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitgong View Post
Nobody says you have to use PT a certain way. I still mainly use it as a tape machine. Maybe I'm too lazy to suck the life out of my recordings?
Yeah i hear you...I use mine as a tape machine too, but just the fact that it is there calling my name bothers me. I want to not even have the options there. Part of me loves plugs and the other part of me thinks they're ridiculous.
Old 21st September 2011
  #10
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nobtwiddler's Avatar
RADAR is they way to go

If you want to just hit record, and not think about anything else but the music, well then RADAR is the ONLY way to go, PERIOD!
(digitally speaking that is!)

Since they started as Creation Technologies, Ive owned 6 systems.
Five of which were Radar IIs
And they all worked perfectly and sounded like a million dollars.
No fuss, no muss as they say...turn them on, arm the tracks, hit record, and you are ready to ROCK.
SIMPLE, and they sound like MUSIC.

Only reason I sold 4 of the old units, was simply because IZ said they would NO longer service them..
I figured that I had NO choice.

So I recently updated to Radar Vs (at major $$$)
Slightly better sound, due to the Super Nyquist convertors. plus a few more DAW type options, BUT overall basically the same machine, which has always been reliable.

By the way, Barry who is the owner will call you back (even on SUNDAY!) if you have a problem and will stay on the line till its fixed!
One of the best companies Ive ever dealt with in 30 years!
4 stars!

So to answer your question...
Go for the RADAR 24 or V systems, but stay away from the IIs just in case anything goes wrong, cause they are NO LONGER Supported by IZ...
Just my opinion!
Old 21st September 2011
  #11
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What bollocks.

You can use PT as a tape machine it you really want to, but you would be missing out on some really cool features.
If the visual thing is bothering you just hide the arrange page.

Leave the mixer and transport on the screen. Voila. Instant ignorance.

It's not the recording medium making **** music.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #12
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crying1986's Avatar
Easy there bro. A lot of things go into making ****ty music. When I turn on the top 20 countdown all I hear are those "features" that you're talking about. Its no big deal though. I just want to get away from daws and I feel that radar could be my way out.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crying1986 View Post
Easy there bro. A lot of things go into making ****ty music. When I turn on the top 20 countdown all I hear are those "features" that you're talking about. Its no big deal though. I just want to get away from daws and I feel that radar could be my way out.
I'm cool 'Bro'.
I'm just pointing out that Radar has editing features. If you choose to use any DAW you can probably buy tuning programs for it.

These things aren't responsible for "****ty music" however.

No-one is forcing you to edit or tune. If you're not part of the solution....blah blah.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #14
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Yes Radar is the best digital recording system there is in my opinion. Of course my holding to that opinion has cost me my Nashville client base. After 17 years of great sessions in my own studio and several of the other wonderful rooms here, the harsh reality is: If you're not on Tools, You're not working! I'm seeing a small resurgence of artists who are allowing me to talk them into the performance aspect again like it used to be. I start the new tracking sessions with my little speech to the players that includes, " no playlists guys!"
Play it again and we discover the MAGIC that is each ones gift. Which is why we all pursued this music stuff in the first place.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #15
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crying1986's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radarlove View Post
Yes Radar is the best digital recording system there is in my opinion. Of course my holding to that opinion has cost me my Nashville client base. After 17 years of great sessions in my own studio and several of the other wonderful rooms here, the harsh reality is: If you're not on Tools, You're not working! I'm seeing a small resurgence of artists who are allowing me to talk them into the performance aspect again like it used to be. I start the new tracking sessions with my little speech to the players that includes, " no playlists guys!"
Play it again and we discover the MAGIC that is each ones gift. Which is why we all pursued this music stuff in the first place.
I think this is what I'm getting at. It isnt the software that I have a problem with. It is a workflow and mind state that I want to get into. I do understand that there is a huge client base that only want to use DAWs of some kind...and particularly PT. I'm fine with that, and I understand that for sure. In the end I'd rather do like you and record in a way that you feel offers something special. I am sick of feeling like a tool to make bad musicians good. I want to capture something amazing and be proud of what I am doing. Thanks for the post.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #16
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79_Limited's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crying1986 View Post
Can I ask why should I wait for a 24? Is it the fact that they are newer and still supported? I was also reading about the II's lack of transfer options.

Also...if you dont mind, what would a fair price for a 24?

I can get a 48 track RADAR II system right now for under $2500.

Thanks for your input...I really need some insight to all of this right now.
The II's are a good bit older and not upgradeable. They are also a bit noisier.

I have seen Nyquist systems with meter bridges/session controllers go for $3,500.

I bet you you can get one with Classic cards for a little less and even have the USB option.

A lot of folks use the Radar front end conversion for Pro Tools with good results so you have a lot of options.

U2 records on Radar and it sounds good to my ears.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #17
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Knox's Avatar
 

I am primarily a tape guy, but as a commercial studio I knew I had to also get a digital system in here. The LAST thing I wanted to buy was a PT system for a million reasons. All my research said get RADAR and I almost did. But I realized I was going to cut off too many outside sessions coming in from PT users or engineers who were used to PT or who wanted to bring in their plug ins / iLok etc. I HATE PT for many reasons but one of the main reasons is, I hate depending so much on a visual in an audio world. If you have no plans on outside sessions / outside engineers booking your room, I would without a doubt get a nice RADAR system. I wish I had been able to. My decision was purely a business one. Though I still use my 2 inch primarily.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #18
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Why not just get some Radar converters and use them as the front end for a Protools system. Once you get into Protools, or non-linear recording in general, you'll see that there are interesting and creative capabilities that far outshine the more mundane auto-tune and editing features. You can be a boneheaded, nonmusical perfectionist in any medium. For me, the DAW is not an opportunity for obsessiveness, but a liberation from the confines of linear recording.

-R
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