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Where to move? Books
Old 16th September 2011
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Where to move?

So my wife and I are thinking of relocating. Tampa is just dead.



I am a musician, a Full Sail grad, with basically a minimum wage job. I want to be in the music industry in some form or another and have my choices down to Nashville, Los Angeles, Boulder, possibly San Fran...

Can anyone give me some tips on these cities as far as live music scene is, recording scene, just music in general.

I'd love to travel to each city but I just cant afford to do that.

If anyone can offer up any advice it would be much appreciated!!

Jim
Old 16th September 2011
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleraudio View Post
So my wife and I are thinking of relocating. Tampa is just dead.

I am a musician, a Full Sail grad, with basically a minimum wage job. I want to be in the music industry in some form or another and have my choices down to Nashville, Los Angeles, Boulder, possibly San Fran...

Can anyone give me some tips on these cities as far as live music scene is, recording scene, just music in general.

I'd love to travel to each city but I just cant afford to do that.

If anyone can offer up any advice it would be much appreciated!!

Jim
if you are talking jobs then it is the same everywhere
cities with more activity have more people there trying to get a slice of the action

get a job first
move to that city

you cant afford to move to some city that somebody claims is hot for music only to discover no work and you have to move again to get a job

that said
nashville or la or nyc

forget boulder completely
san fran not better than many other places like baltimore and even miami
Old 16th September 2011
  #3
Lives for gear
Where to move?

I guess it's time for an update of an old joke:

The physics grad asks "why does it work?"

The engineering grad asks "How does it work?"

The FullSail grad asks "Do you want fries with that?"

On another thread someone broke down the math of graduates to available positions in the rapidly shrinking audio production/recording market. Wasn't good. It's something like the odds of the star at the local muni basketball court making the NBA. Or the pop Warner kid making the NFL. Even if you get into Michigan or Nebraska and make the team there, the odds of getting to the big show are slim.

Music has always been like that. I know countless killer players who've tried to relocate from the SF bay area to LA only to be back with their tails between their legs in 6 months.

If you've built the rep and someone wants you there, go for it. Otherwise leave the boulevard of broken dreams to the dreamers and build yourself something where you are.
Old 16th September 2011
  #4
Lives for gear
 
toneguru's Avatar
The post above, as dark as it is does indeed have merit.

Funny joke about grads too.

Anyway, I would say if you are going to open up a studio then perhaps move to Nashville, if you are looking for a job at a studio perhaps a move to LA and if you are looking to make it as a musician perhaps a move to San Fran.

Nashville seems to have a higher percentage of big budget sessions, LA has the largest number of studios and San Fran has lots of live venues (relative to the pop.) but the performers are not up to snuff relative to LA, NY and Nashville.

Good luck and if you make it up to San Fran lets hook up.

- Cheers
Old 17th September 2011
  #5
Love San Francisco, but it's very expensive to live there and gigs pay poorly. "Grammy award winning engineers" with Neves in their home studios advertise studio time for $10/hr on craigslist, to give you an idea of the oversaturation of the recording sector.
Old 17th September 2011
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks for the insight guys, keep it coming.

Seems like I made a mistake with full sail huh? I didnt say you want fries with that, I said would you like the venti size

But seriously, its depressing that I chased my dream like everyone told me to, now they all have good paying careers and Im stuck.. but hey, at least I went for it!!




Anyways, Im really lost and I dont know what to do, I know Tampa is completely dead, the economy is toxic, there arent any jobs in ANY field except fast food, and its just draining me.

Why did you say forget Boulder completely? I love it out there and my brother in law is out there... no chance for music type jobs out there?

Thanks a million guys!

Jim
Old 17th September 2011
  #7
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
Dude...grew up in Orlando...worked in a studio while hanging with people attending FS...married one, FWIW...I don't know ANY of them who got jobs worth a piss in the industry. I'd burn the place down if I thought I could get away with it. Taking advantage of people with dreams is seriously "going to hell" material, IMO...

Anyway...what you learned is probably good stuff. The fact that you learned it there, you should face is worthless.

I won't begin to offer advice, because I'm sitting here in Nashville NOT working in the industry. When our little studio in Orlando closed, I went back to school, and shortly after, wound up here...only to have the technology kill the industry--big studios and the labels that supported them as well as demo level studios, because every fool with a computer and a chinese LDC thinks they can make a demo...which is sort of true...but, yet so NOT good for either party.

Anyway, my only advice is to just make peace with the mistake of Full Sail. If you still owe--declare bankruptcy--enough defaults are the only way financial aid will ever be questioned at that place...but, make peace with it...and ask yourself what you want to do with what you've learned.

And on a lighter note...there's an advantage in fast food that you aren't seeing right now...a job like that is disposable. And easily replaceable. Once you get into a "career" type job is--well, it's no less draining, only you literally can't take a few months off and make your next album. EVER. until you retire. Unless you're dead first. Just saying. Guess that wasn't lighter so much as a bright side to your Starbuckery.
Old 17th September 2011
  #8
Lives for gear
 
suedesound's Avatar
 

sf/bay area is a beautiful awesome place to be, i lived out there for almost ten years and am now back in austin where i grew up and missing it. that said it's ****ing expensive. from my experience live sound in sf was a good gig, i was working for 3-4 clubs at a time and doing okay the last few years i was there. there are some great studios but it took some time to get established in the scene there (although thats anywhere). i may be wrong on this but i think the amount of work available vs. people wanting jobs is probably the same in sf as la ny etc but less jobs and less people. another thing to consider is sf has expression which is like full sail but better (i'm biased cause i went there but from what i've gathered is true) so there's a lot of competition.

i moved back home for personal reasons and it's a temporary thing but i'm looking at chicago or philly in the near future. just some other ideas for you.
Old 17th September 2011
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

As far as Full Sail, I have finally paid that off, (graduated in 03) and I agree, they are definitely taking advantage of people with dreams.

Glad you married a Full Sail gal Thats a pretty cool story!

Is there any work in Nashville doing live sound at clubs or anything, is that place saturated to hell?

Well thats the big problem, Ive been searching for "career" type jobs but no one will give me a chance ....



Lets face it, I have a degree from Full Sail and experience in kitchens and starbucks...

Im a really smart guy, well mannered, learn quick, etc... but my credentials dont say that to anyone, so I never get interviews...

Its cool though, I'd rather not work that type of job anyways ya know...

Thanks a lot for your insight man, I may end up in Nashville, well have to go out and get a drink sometime.
Old 17th September 2011
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Relocating and planning a pathway for life, especially if you're married (which, if it is real, is more meaningful than any career) is an interesting journey.

The economy all throughout the U.S. (and Europe) is going through a deep transition that is going to be unfolding for years to come. The 'dead' factor you noted is likely due, in part, to that.

I'm older, and in the broad scheme of things, my recommendation would be to ponder the type of life you want (for yourself and your family), then note where that might be likely to occur, then see where it's confluent with your work/skill interests. The music 'scene' now will be different in five years, and what that will be is anyone's guess. Like most of life, much of it is a surprise, welcome or not.

A place like NY-city is a large urban environment, costly, with the problems (and features) endemic to such a place. Nashville is smaller, with many people doing music, but the cultural climate is quite different. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and indeed, it is expensive, and also urban. The best gigs for performers are house concerts, and one would be hard-pressed to make a living doing those, as the cost of living here is enormous. My sister lives near Boulder - much slower (I think a nicer pace for a life and creativity), but as an earlier post noted, not a lot of work for musicians. Los Angeles has a pace of the family of New York; if you plan to have a family I wouldn't recommend it.

If you're inventive, patient, and have good interpersonal skills, you'd do well to pick an area and go make a life for yourself. It'll take two or three years to get established, but in the scheme of things, that's not long. Get involved with schools, a community you like, let people know who you are - that works better than anything, and it's real.

You'll be better off creating something that trying to 'hire into' something. Getting a minimum-wage gig is OK if you can keep your needs modest (Thoreau talked about his wealth being analogous to that which he could do without), and modest is not a descriptive one typically associates with the costs of living in New York, Los Angeles, or San Francisco.

And if the Full Sail gig was what made sense to you at the time, then it was a 'good decision'. If you learned some things about your field of interest and met some good people, it was valuable. Most people have about five or six 'careers'. Don't gear everything around your wage-based activity; things change, and so do people and their inclinations. Look to the essence of why you connect with music, not just the trappings. Lots of great players went and got a degree in something else and earned money with it, and they kept developing as players. Love your wife. Become a parent if it suits you. Trust your intuition - and if your intuition isn't highly developed, work on developing it. Best wishes on your journey
Old 17th September 2011
  #11
I performed a similar move about 3 years ago, going from the northeast to Los Angeles. I planned it out, saved up for a year, and jumped in head first. It was scary, but I'm still making it, have a great band, going to school, I'm building a studio. Slowly but surely things are happening.

[Good] music in LA is pretty much dead, but I'm building a little empire one day at a time.

I think if you plan it out doing a big move like that can be worth it, and as long as you don't have unrealistic expectations it can be a very eye-opening and satisfying experience
Old 17th September 2011
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
you cant afford to move to some city that somebody claims is hot for music only to discover no work and you have to move again to get a job
Exactly, I moved to Austin TX in 1994 thinking it would be way better than San Diego, and found myself back in SD a year later.
Old 17th September 2011
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitreouswindows View Post
Relocating and planning a pathway for life, especially if you're married (which, if it is real, is more meaningful than any career) is an interesting journey.

The economy all throughout the U.S. (and Europe) is going through a deep transition that is going to be unfolding for years to come. The 'dead' factor you noted is likely due, in part, to that.

I'm older, and in the broad scheme of things, my recommendation would be to ponder the type of life you want (for yourself and your family), then note where that might be likely to occur, then see where it's confluent with your work/skill interests. The music 'scene' now will be different in five years, and what that will be is anyone's guess. Like most of life, much of it is a surprise, welcome or not.

A place like NY-city is a large urban environment, costly, with the problems (and features) endemic to such a place. Nashville is smaller, with many people doing music, but the cultural climate is quite different. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and indeed, it is expensive, and also urban. The best gigs for performers are house concerts, and one would be hard-pressed to make a living doing those, as the cost of living here is enormous. My sister lives near Boulder - much slower (I think a nicer pace for a life and creativity), but as an earlier post noted, not a lot of work for musicians. Los Angeles has a pace of the family of New York; if you plan to have a family I wouldn't recommend it.

If you're inventive, patient, and have good interpersonal skills, you'd do well to pick an area and go make a life for yourself. It'll take two or three years to get established, but in the scheme of things, that's not long. Get involved with schools, a community you like, let people know who you are - that works better than anything, and it's real.

You'll be better off creating something that trying to 'hire into' something. Getting a minimum-wage gig is OK if you can keep your needs modest (Thoreau talked about his wealth being analogous to that which he could do without), and modest is not a descriptive one typically associates with the costs of living in New York, Los Angeles, or San Francisco.

And if the Full Sail gig was what made sense to you at the time, then it was a 'good decision'. If you learned some things about your field of interest and met some good people, it was valuable. Most people have about five or six 'careers'. Don't gear everything around your wage-based activity; things change, and so do people and their inclinations. Look to the essence of why you connect with music, not just the trappings. Lots of great players went and got a degree in something else and earned money with it, and they kept developing as players. Love your wife. Become a parent if it suits you. Trust your intuition - and if your intuition isn't highly developed, work on developing it. Best wishes on your journey
Wow. That was a beautiful post. Very inspirational and thought provoking. Bravo.
Old 17th September 2011
  #14
Lives for gear
I know someone who graduated full sail. He tried college here in Louisiana and then went to full sail. Came back and decided to knock on nothing studios door. 10 years later he's Trent Reznors right hand man. Saw him backstage at bonnaroo a few years ago. We had time to talk a little and he told me he had that plan to work for that studio before he went to full sail. It was just the right timing and he had a plan. He just did the most obvious thing and it worked. A lot of it seems to do with putting yourself in the place you want to be, making friends and contacts. I'd move somewhere where you can and just go for it. Problem for a lot of people just like the acting majors I know is re-locating and money. You have to go where the work is and stay there long enough to make it happen. Easier said than done. I know people with degrees who have no choice but go to LA or NY, get spit out and lose all the money or what little they had. It's just so much easier if you can get to the area you want to be in and have the money already, family or a trust fund. I see more people that had a family with money working in high places than I do others. It just makes it all that harder when you're an average joe.
Old 17th September 2011
  #15
Lives for gear
Where to move?

For performing, I hear a lot of LA folks are going to Lost Wages for the gigs. Look up "the side guys" on YouTube and you'll see Ronnie Foster playing in a lounge. I've also heard that there's opportunity for live production work there although you have to work your way up like everyplace else.
Old 17th September 2011
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleraudio View Post
Thanks for the insight guys, keep it coming.

Seems like I made a mistake with full sail huh? I didnt say you want fries with that, I said would you like the venti size

But seriously, its depressing that I chased my dream like everyone told me to, now they all have good paying careers and Im stuck.. but hey, at least I went for it!!




Anyways, Im really lost and I dont know what to do, I know Tampa is completely dead, the economy is toxic, there arent any jobs in ANY field except fast food, and its just draining me.

Why did you say forget Boulder completely? I love it out there and my brother in law is out there... no chance for music type jobs out there?

Thanks a million guys!

Jim
depends what you expected
if they said you would be working a great job in audio
then yes a mistake

imho anyone who goes to a for profit trade school is throwing their money away because you could go to the local communit ycollege and learn more better faster easier cheaper and get more hands on experience too.
Old 17th September 2011
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleraudio View Post
Thanks for the insight guys, keep it coming.

Seems like I made a mistake with full sail huh? I didnt say you want fries with that, I said would you like the venti size

But seriously, its depressing that I chased my dream like everyone told me to, now they all have good paying careers and Im stuck.. but hey, at least I went for it!!

Anyways, Im really lost and I dont know what to do, I know Tampa is completely dead, the economy is toxic, there arent any jobs in ANY field except fast food, and its just draining me.

Why did you say forget Boulder completely? I love it out there and my brother in law is out there... no chance for music type jobs out there?


Thanks a million guys!

Jim
well.........
go to boulder then
so
when you are homeless
you can still move in with your BIL
Old 17th September 2011
  #18
Gear Addict
 

great post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitreouswindows View Post
Relocating and planning a pathway for life, especially if you're married (which, if it is real, is more meaningful than any career) is an interesting journey.

The economy all throughout the U.S. (and Europe) is going through a deep transition that is going to be unfolding for years to come. The 'dead' factor you noted is likely due, in part, to that.

I'm older, and in the broad scheme of things, my recommendation would be to ponder the type of life you want (for yourself and your family), then note where that might be likely to occur, then see where it's confluent with your work/skill interests. The music 'scene' now will be different in five years, and what that will be is anyone's guess. Like most of life, much of it is a surprise, welcome or not.

A place like NY-city is a large urban environment, costly, with the problems (and features) endemic to such a place. Nashville is smaller, with many people doing music, but the cultural climate is quite different. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and indeed, it is expensive, and also urban. The best gigs for performers are house concerts, and one would be hard-pressed to make a living doing those, as the cost of living here is enormous. My sister lives near Boulder - much slower (I think a nicer pace for a life and creativity), but as an earlier post noted, not a lot of work for musicians. Los Angeles has a pace of the family of New York; if you plan to have a family I wouldn't recommend it.

If you're inventive, patient, and have good interpersonal skills, you'd do well to pick an area and go make a life for yourself. It'll take two or three years to get established, but in the scheme of things, that's not long. Get involved with schools, a community you like, let people know who you are - that works better than anything, and it's real.

You'll be better off creating something that trying to 'hire into' something. Getting a minimum-wage gig is OK if you can keep your needs modest (Thoreau talked about his wealth being analogous to that which he could do without), and modest is not a descriptive one typically associates with the costs of living in New York, Los Angeles, or San Francisco.

And if the Full Sail gig was what made sense to you at the time, then it was a 'good decision'. If you learned some things about your field of interest and met some good people, it was valuable. Most people have about five or six 'careers'. Don't gear everything around your wage-based activity; things change, and so do people and their inclinations. Look to the essence of why you connect with music, not just the trappings. Lots of great players went and got a degree in something else and earned money with it, and they kept developing as players. Love your wife. Become a parent if it suits you. Trust your intuition - and if your intuition isn't highly developed, work on developing it. Best wishes on your journey
Old 17th September 2011
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
BachEnvy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleraudio View Post
Thanks for the insight guys, keep it coming.

Seems like I made a mistake with full sail huh? I didnt say you want fries with that, I said would you like the venti size

But seriously, its depressing that I chased my dream like everyone told me to, now they all have good paying careers and Im stuck.. but hey, at least I went for it!!




Anyways, Im really lost and I dont know what to do, I know Tampa is completely dead, the economy is toxic, there arent any jobs in ANY field except fast food, and its just draining me.



Why did you say forget Boulder completely? I love it out there and my brother in law is out there... no chance for music type jobs out there?

Thanks a million guys!

Jim
What about Guitar Center? The Pro Audio dept?
Old 17th September 2011
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
BachEnvy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleraudio View Post
As far as Full Sail, I have finally paid that off, (graduated in 03) and I agree, they are definitely taking advantage of people with dreams.

Glad you married a Full Sail gal Thats a pretty cool story!

Is there any work in Nashville doing live sound at clubs or anything, is that place saturated to hell?

Well thats the big problem, Ive been searching for "career" type jobs but no one will give me a chance ....



Lets face it, I have a degree from Full Sail and experience in kitchens and starbucks...

Im a really smart guy, well mannered, learn quick, etc... but my credentials dont say that to anyone, so I never get interviews...

Its cool though, I'd rather not work that type of job anyways ya know...

Thanks a lot for your insight man, I may end up in Nashville, well have to go out and get a drink sometime.

What about being a sales engineer at Sweetwater?
Old 17th September 2011
  #21
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
Go back and re-read vitreouswindows post.
First, NOW....Get out of the food industry and into the music industry.
If you're a "lifer" which means you breathe music and have no choice in the matter, then be creative and do whatever it takes to make it happen.

I'm now a composer/session player with my own company but to make ends meet while getting here I've taught guitar lessons, sold Clavinovas at the mall, worked at numerous music stores, recorded voice overs, ran live sound, wrote library tracks in exchange for studio time, played lots of crappy gigs, provided tech support setting up client's midi rigs and composed for other companies. But I never worked in the fast food industry.

Expand your skill set and get good. Find a city where you and your wife would like to raise a family because around 30yo most woman want to have kids.
Keep talking about what you'd really like to be doing and start visualizing
yourself doing it.

Pace yourself! Know that the decisions you are making now will get you where you want to be but it will take time, hard work and sacrifice. Enjoy the ride and trust me it will ALL change again and again and again.

What about Denver or a larger city in CO? Bigger city with more going on, close to brother in law. There's a lot to be said for living somewhere beautiful.
That way when you're starving, nature will at least be feeding your soul.

Try to keep your wife happy too. Living with an unhappy woman is not recommended.
Old 17th September 2011
  #22
Lives for gear
 
scruffydog's Avatar
My Dad used to say ''you got to make it in your own back yard...''
Mmm...well....i was pretty much born on a roundabout in a North London Ghetto...i'm still trying to make it!!
Tampa sounds good from where i stand....
Old 17th September 2011
  #23
Lives for gear
 
doug hazelrigg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kleraudio View Post

Seems like I made a mistake with full sail huh? I didnt say you want fries with that, I said would you like the venti size
I wouldn't give up so easily. In fact, if audio is what you really want to do, I wouldn't EVER give up. Of course, you need to earn a living in the meantime. Have you considered live sound reinforcement? There may be more opportunity there than studio work
Old 17th September 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
79_Limited's Avatar
 

I think the guys that are making it now days are diversified and do many aspects of audio and not just one area. Some of the smart guys here on the board have even over their services that can be done on the web. I like how some of the good studio musicians can now offer their services in rela time over the web.
Old 17th September 2011
  #25
Lives for gear
Someone mentioned bankruptcy. Just so you're aware, that is (unfortunately) not an option. Bankruptcy wipes out all debt except for student loans. Otherwise, everyone would declare right out of school.
Old 17th September 2011
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitreouswindows View Post
Relocating and planning a pathway for life, especially if you're married (which, if it is real, is more meaningful than any career) is an interesting journey.

The economy all throughout the U.S. (and Europe) is going through a deep transition that is going to be unfolding for years to come. The 'dead' factor you noted is likely due, in part, to that.

I'm older, and in the broad scheme of things, my recommendation would be to ponder the type of life you want (for yourself and your family), then note where that might be likely to occur, then see where it's confluent with your work/skill interests. The music 'scene' now will be different in five years, and what that will be is anyone's guess. Like most of life, much of it is a surprise, welcome or not.

A place like NY-city is a large urban environment, costly, with the problems (and features) endemic to such a place. Nashville is smaller, with many people doing music, but the cultural climate is quite different. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and indeed, it is expensive, and also urban. The best gigs for performers are house concerts, and one would be hard-pressed to make a living doing those, as the cost of living here is enormous. My sister lives near Boulder - much slower (I think a nicer pace for a life and creativity), but as an earlier post noted, not a lot of work for musicians. Los Angeles has a pace of the family of New York; if you plan to have a family I wouldn't recommend it.

If you're inventive, patient, and have good interpersonal skills, you'd do well to pick an area and go make a life for yourself. It'll take two or three years to get established, but in the scheme of things, that's not long. Get involved with schools, a community you like, let people know who you are - that works better than anything, and it's real.

You'll be better off creating something that trying to 'hire into' something. Getting a minimum-wage gig is OK if you can keep your needs modest (Thoreau talked about his wealth being analogous to that which he could do without), and modest is not a descriptive one typically associates with the costs of living in New York, Los Angeles, or San Francisco.

And if the Full Sail gig was what made sense to you at the time, then it was a 'good decision'. If you learned some things about your field of interest and met some good people, it was valuable. Most people have about five or six 'careers'. Don't gear everything around your wage-based activity; things change, and so do people and their inclinations. Look to the essence of why you connect with music, not just the trappings. Lots of great players went and got a degree in something else and earned money with it, and they kept developing as players. Love your wife. Become a parent if it suits you. Trust your intuition - and if your intuition isn't highly developed, work on developing it. Best wishes on your journey

Bravo! Well said and great advice! Jeff
Old 18th September 2011
  #27
Gear Nut
 

I dont understan why you want to move to get a job in sound, but you have no jobs now and dont gig. What makes you think that moving will cure these problems? You live in a big city and i would imagine it has tons of work it really sounds like you arent trying.

You need to start gigging and meeting people. Offer to run sound at the venues you play at. Meet bands run sound for them. Offer lessons in recording(since you have a degree in that) setting up home studios for noobs. Rent out your home studio on craigslist for 15$ an hour and youll teach them how to use the stuff as well.

You have to actually go out and do stuff. I make a decent living djing( like club turntablism type stuff not mobile or weddings) and running sound and doing whatever else i can on the side. I know plenty of full sailors that work under me or work alot lesa because they worry about working instead of just working.

I think thats the most important thing: stop worrying about moving to greener pastures and what you are qualified to do and just start working. Its really not that hard to work in music and imo its just like any other job out there.

Good luck.
Old 18th September 2011
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
rogerdodger's Avatar
 

This is the simplest question to answer with a non-answer

It's all about the INTERNET now. Reach the entire world.

Innovate, do something a guy with a 2million dollar studio couldnt do.

Broke kids on the leeward side of the bellcurve move to those places.

or famous people.

the new world pecking order isn't about following the cool kids anymore.
Old 18th September 2011
  #29
Lives for gear
 
surflounge's Avatar
Shop your talent to local music stores/musician network.
Offer something that helps create jobs, and pays you for what you like doing.
GET OFF THE INTERNET and hit the pavement. Meet real people. Discuss needs. Find out where you fit in and if there is opportunity. Measure your skills against chance of success.
Old 18th September 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasnub View Post
Someone mentioned bankruptcy. Just so you're aware, that is (unfortunately) not an option. Bankruptcy wipes out all debt except for student loans. Otherwise, everyone would declare right out of school.
Are the loans you get for FS the same as a typical student loan? Isn't it more akin to a line of credit with a lower interest rate subsidized by the institution? FS isn't even an accredited college, is it??

It would be worth looking into if the guy is in dire straits.......
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