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Will studio monitors make a difference? Studio Monitors
Old 17th September 2011
  #31
Lives for gear
Great analogy !

Here's another one: imagine you are a race car driver and have entered a highly competitive race. The race has a very tough course that meanders thru winding roads on mountainous terrain that has many cliffs and sharp turns. Like many of the others, you have a top notch car and years of experience driving it; but the one key difference between you and them is that you have to drive with a blindfold on.

1) What are your chances of winning the race, or even placing against the much less experienced drivers with inferior cars ?

2) How fast do you think you'll be able to go when almost every judgment you make has to be based upon educated guesses as opposed to gut instinct ?

3) What are your chances of completely falling off a cliff ?







Quote:
Originally Posted by tturner View Post
Treat the room.
Suppose you were a painter, and the room in which you’re creating your paintings (which has no windows) has 1 light bulb that’s painted green. As a result your paintings, when viewed in that room, have a boatload of green in them, seemingly without you even trying to add any green. Of course, when you look at them in the sunlight, the green is gone.
You could probably eventually learn to get correct amounts of green after lots of trial and error, but honestly wouldn’t it be a lot easier if the light in your room just displayed the correct color spectrum in the first place?
Substitute paintings for mixes, and the color green for whatever frequencies your room is amplifying at mix position, and you get the idea.
Different monitors will still be at the mercy of the acoustics of your room.
Old 17th September 2011
  #32
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickanos View Post
It's hard though bass traps are so damn expensive!
DIY is the way to go! I know there are threads on here about different designs.. I used the giant cheese block method. 4" Corning 703 cut into triangles, glued together, covered with canvas. Did wonders for low frequency clarity and decay in our control room.
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Old 17th September 2011
  #33
Here for the gear
 

I ran the sweeping test, well I guess there are big problems.
It got a bit loud at about 80Hz and it felt that the signal is decreasing until it reached the 130Hz point where it got really loud and before it reached 240Hz point it felt that the perceived volume is jumping up and down. However from 240Hz-300Hz it got only louder and louder.
Not really sure if I'm doing everything correctly though, first time.
Old 17th September 2011
  #34
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mcgruff's Avatar
 

In a perfect room, it would be perfectly flat.

Once you tighten up the low end you should hear much better definition, crispness and attack as opposed to muddy boom.
Old 17th September 2011
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

How do your current mixes transfer onto other stereos? Are you pleased with them or do you think they could be better?

While studio monitors will be more accurate, you may have 'learnt' your current speakers to enough of a degree to deliver great mixes.. If you're not happy with your current work, then good monitors are probably the way to go..

Cheap solution to room problem is try to produce/mix as quietly as possible. This will reduce the amount of 'error' the room feeds you..

The funny thing is that after we all record on our fancy monitors, we all always check it on a bunch of stereo speaker afterwards...
Old 17th September 2011
  #36
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@aeolian & maverickrenegade
I have not done a lot of mixes yet, but with the first it took a great amount of time for me to get it close to the way I want it to be, still I feel it can be better. Right now my track plays pretty good on the speakers I made it with, HDJ-1000 headphones, I also tried it on those iphone/ipod earplugs feels a bit much of highs in them, but these apple headphones go dead fast (idk how the mix will sound on the new ones), and Logitech Z-2300 which has the low end pumping a little more than on the comercial mixes. Ye I'm still having a hard time finding that sweetspot where my mixes will play the same on all speakers, well thats why the thread intially started, to find out wether a purchase of pro monitors make my life easier.
I try to play the mixes on as much systems as I can as well, but it is not always possible.
Old 17th September 2011
  #37
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Dr. Mordo's Avatar
 

I have to disagree with many here - monitors are more important than room treatment.

If you have crap monitors and a treated room, you'll have a nice area to listen to low quality sound.

By treating the room before you have decent monitors, you are polishing the turds that are your crappy monitors.

If you could do both at the same time, that would be ideal. But I think I read you only have $800 to spend, which is not enough for both. So, I'd say get good monitors with the intent of treating the room ASAP.

The racecar analogy - you may blindfolded in an untreated room, but when you finally get your blindfold off it turns out you're driving a Ford Pinto.
Old 18th September 2011
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor20 View Post
I ran the sweeping test, well I guess there are big problems.
It got a bit loud at about 80Hz and it felt that the signal is decreasing until it reached the 130Hz point where it got really loud and before it reached 240Hz point it felt that the perceived volume is jumping up and down. However from 240Hz-300Hz it got only louder and louder.
Not really sure if I'm doing everything correctly though, first time.
Makes sense. You can look up formulas for room modes or just try moving them forwards and backwards from the wall 6" at a time until that big dip between 80 and 130 seems to level out the most. Then move them in smaller increments and see what other dips you can level out.
Old 18th September 2011
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
Makes sense. You can look up formulas for room modes or just try moving them forwards and backwards from the wall 6" at a time until that big dip between 80 and 130 seems to level out the most. Then move them in smaller increments and see what other dips you can level out.
Thanks a lot for the advices, your previous big post was really great as well.
Old 21st October 2011
  #40
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jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by filipv View Post
Not true. Not even remotely. Sorry.

Room treatment will improve the accuracy of the monitoring (and the quality of the final result) indescribably more than fancy monitor speaker.

I would choose **** speakers in a treated room over super-hi-end monitors in a **** room
Wow. Good luck with that then.

Cheap KRKs sound like **** in the best rooms in the world, you can't improve a speaker design with room treatment and the reality is most people can't afford to spend the tens of thousands necessary to truly tune a room. And not every room is created equal, some rooms are actually acceptable without a ton of work, some are terrible. All of that said I still stand by the fact that you should buy as much monitor as possible (HR-824s are incredible for the money, as are Event ASP-8s or MAudio DSM2 or 3s) and then work at treatment. Worst case scenario is you can get 80% of the way there if you place your speakers in the space properly. I have had a mix done for me on HR-824s in a room that was minimally treated but situated really well and the mixes were fantastic, balanced and deep, so for those who take nonsensical proclamations like that seriously, no way, my experience suggests otherwise.
(I'm starting to see why so many old timers get irritated with the stuff that gets vehemently touted as fact)

Of course if you're in a concrete box no amount of anything will help.
Old 21st October 2011
  #41
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jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountingToes View Post
I make house and techno, I've had some commercial success and I've always made music in an untreated room, starting on pc speakers then to alesis mk1, the krk v8 and now adam a7. Never have I had a bass trap or other absorbent foam anywhere near my studio. It has however taken me a month or so on each set of monitors to work out the way they react with the room and how that changes the mix in comparison to other systems elsewhere. Once you've learnt that you can get away without any treatment. Though its not preferable and I will be investing in some once i'm properly settled into my new space.
Yep, learning the speakers in the room is a huge factor. Experience trumps toys any day of the week.
Old 21st October 2011
  #42
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mcgruff's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. View Post
... for those who take nonsensical proclamations like that seriously, no way, my experience suggests otherwise.
(I'm starting to see why so many old timers get irritated with the stuff that gets vehemently touted as fact)
Sorry but it's not nonsense. It's physics.
Old 21st October 2011
  #43
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jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgruff View Post
Sorry but it's not nonsense. It's physics.
Yes, that's true that it is, and physics doesn't state that only room treatment will improve a monitoring situation or will improve it more than speaker design. When you quote me out of context it's easy to refute me as saying room treatment is unimportant, I was merely responding to the idea that treatment always trumps speakers, which it doesn't and I gave a fairly balanced and nuanced response to that.
Old 21st October 2011
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
SPORT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CountingToes View Post
I make house and techno, I've had some commercial success and I've always made music in an untreated room
I make mostly Dance and House music and like you I've always made music in my untreated room. For me there are two very important things.
Good monitors and the best place in you room to put it.

SoundClick artist: DJ SPORT - page with MP3 music downloads
Old 21st October 2011
  #45
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Harvey Gerst's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor20 View Post
The speakers I'm using are from an old Sony stereo system that are powered by an amp which is part of the system.
Then your mix should sound very good on most old Sony stereo systems that are powered by an amp which is part of the system. Beyond that, you may run into a few problems.
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