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Now that the Beyer M380 is no more, are there any Figure-8 dynamic mics in existence?
Old 14th September 2011
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Now that the Beyer M380 is no more, are there any Figure-8 dynamic mics in existence?

I was thinking about this and came up blank?
Old 14th September 2011
  #2
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John Willett's Avatar
 

A ribbon is a dynamic mic. - there are plenty of figure-8s around.
Old 14th September 2011
  #3
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Exactly what he said. Ribbon's are dynamic and Bi-directional (figure of 8). You can find cardioid ribbon mics, like the Beyer TG V90, but by default Ribbons are figure of 8, and sites that sell the mics will almost always mention if it's a cardioid ribbon.
Old 14th September 2011
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

I think we all know what he meant by "dynamic", and I don't think it was a microphone with a ribbon.
Old 14th September 2011
  #5
Gear Addict
 

hmm...
Old 22nd September 2011
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Guess nothing exists. Oh well.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #7
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
A subkick mic mic/reverse-wired speaker behaves like a figure of eight mic.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #8
Gear Addict
 

Do you mean that to get a figure 8 dynamic of a reasonably small size is just a question of using a headphone driver as a mic?

Might be dodgy sound quality though. Or would it? I mean -- well -- would it?

and does this mean an open backed set of headphones could be converted to a blumlein pair by [pretty severely] bending the headstrap and configuring the drivers beneath/perpendicular to each other?

[no intention of doing this but i'm now curious]
Old 31st December 2011
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by recorder2 View Post
Do you mean that to get a figure 8 dynamic of a reasonably small size is just a question of using a headphone driver as a mic?

Might be dodgy sound quality though. Or would it? I mean -- well -- would it?

and does this mean an open backed set of headphones could be converted to a blumlein pair by [pretty severely] bending the headstrap and configuring the drivers beneath/perpendicular to each other?

[no intention of doing this but i'm now curious]
Actually the Beyerdynamic M380 capsule was the headphone driver...
Old 31st December 2011
  #10
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recorder2 View Post
Do you mean that to get a figure 8 dynamic of a reasonably small size is just a question of using a headphone driver as a mic?

Might be dodgy sound quality though. Or would it? I mean -- well -- would it?

and does this mean an open backed set of headphones could be converted to a blumlein pair by [pretty severely] bending the headstrap and configuring the drivers beneath/perpendicular to each other?

[no intention of doing this but i'm now curious]
Well - the first open-back headphones came about because a Sennheiser engineer wired a microphone capsule to listen and realises it sounded better than the closed back headphones. This became the HD414, the world's first open headphones.
Old 19th August 2015
  #11
Lives for gear
 
frans's Avatar
By the way, I'm looking for a M380 housing with broken capsule to try what would fit in current capsules. If you got a broken M380 (or similar, as the housing was used for two other different mics/with very different capsules, the opus 65 and the TGx50) please contact me.
I know what capsules went into the M380, but that was in the 80s - don't get your hopes up too high to dig up these things.
Old 29th June 2018
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Hi, I believe that the capsule for the 380 is the same as the driver for the dt770 and dt990 headphones. There is no transformer so the speaker hooks up directly to the connector. Vintage prices for just the mic body without the capsule are extremely high. I have old headphones that I would to convert into microphones. Has anyone tried this? The inside of the 380 is just stuffed with foam and the speaker is just floating inside. Seems like it would be very easy to recreate with some alternative housing.
Old 29th June 2018
  #13
Lives for gear
 
frans's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deus3700 View Post
Hi, I believe that the capsule for the 380 is the same as the driver for the dt770 and dt990 headphones. (...) I have old headphones that I would to convert into microphones. Has anyone tried this?
Hello, over at electrical audio there was a thread where i gave some info, i'll copy this and edit it down to a few sentences:

The capsule in the M380 was also inside the headphones DT770 and DT990 from 1985 until around 1992, it's the 600 ohms variant. Then the 250 ohms capsule went into those headphones but not to the M380, which weren't made anymore. The Opus 65 and TG-X50 obviously have nothing in common except the housing.
For all those who want to look on Ebay for those 80s DT770+990 ... don't get your hopes up too high. Most of them are, after just 30 years or so, in slightly less than stellar condition. I dissected a few I could get my hands on, even after thorough cleaning a good number still has that giveaway buzz when fed low frequency sine tones (also a good way to check AKG D12s, of which IMHO 95% are junk by now). To make matters worse, the audiophiles still hold these 600 ohms DT 770+990 in high regard, which drives prices up. At least those of the sellers, as most buyers are a bit reluctant to trust 30 year old headphones, for a good reason.
Over the years there have been a whole line of capsules for the 770+990 that have nothing in common with the old ones: 32ohms, 50 ohms, 250, new 600ohms, etc.etc. - if you go hunting, keep that in mind - you are much more likely to run into those than the 1985-92 variant. (…)

This capsule doesn't like it when hair or something gets in and ever so slightly touches the membrane. Buzzzzzzzz. When hair or -gasp!- dust or -more gasp!- little magnetic particles get into the magnet gap you're usually S.O.L., in a few cases you can reverse the mic as a "speaker" and run a series of sine tones through the capsule via a headphone amp, if you hit the right (resonant, I suspect) frequency you might be lucky and the dirt falls out. (in case of magnetic particles.. no)
So far I have gone through a number of old headphones and nearly everyone failed the sine wave test, that means dirt/dust/hair either in the magnet gap or behind the membrane. If it's ON the membrane, you can clean it. If it's not too bad, you could still use it for kickdrum and maybe get away with it, but on bass amp you will get a "kchzzzz" on clean tones, at least on the attack and loud notes, it depends. What I've been upt to in the last few months - going through used headphones/capsules to see which one have the best chance to live on in a M380. The failure rate, for what I found, is higher than 50% for capsules to be dead and for the rest, less than half pass the low sinewave test to check if there is dirt/hair on the membrane or worse, in the magnet gap - which makes them buzz or resonate on bass and low mids. I came across three different capsules, the white one most have already seen, the one with a black gauze on the back to prevent dirt coming in from the back and a third with a slightly darker tint of white.


I put a fully working 380 capsule into the body of a dead/empty AKG D12. There aren't that many housings where you could put in the 380 capsule, as it's quite big, even without the "collar" holding it. (which also prevents hair and dirt to get to the sticky membrane) This works. Regarding finding a fully working, non-buzzing capsule in old headphones: good luck. Regarding getting a new capsule as a replacement: there are none in production that work like the old 380. There has been a little talk about a limited run of capsules, but so far there's nothing substantial.
Old 29th June 2018
  #14
Lives for gear
Interesting stuff.

I have a 380 somewhere I've barely used I bought when they were in production. I can't find it anywhere... I must have lent it to someone without it being returned. I have a D12 that has been bubble wrapped for 20 plus years. I should probably sell it! I'll test it soon.

Both are excellent mics that should still be in production.

Tony
Old 29th June 2018
  #15
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambony View Post

Both are excellent mics that should still be in production.
Like the AKG D202 & D224 and the Sennheiser MD 211
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans View Post
Hello, over at electrical audio there was a thread where i gave some info, i'll copy this and edit it down to a few sentences:

The capsule in the M380 was also inside the headphones DT770 and DT990 from 1985 until around 1992, it's the 600 ohms variant. Then the 250 ohms capsule went into those headphones but not to the M380, which weren't made anymore. The Opus 65 and TG-X50 obviously have nothing in common except the housing.
For all those who want to look on Ebay for those 80s DT770+990 ... don't get your hopes up too high. Most of them are, after just 30 years or so, in slightly less than stellar condition. I dissected a few I could get my hands on, even after thorough cleaning a good number still has that giveaway buzz when fed low frequency sine tones (also a good way to check AKG D12s, of which IMHO 95% are junk by now). To make matters worse, the audiophiles still hold these 600 ohms DT 770+990 in high regard, which drives prices up. At least those of the sellers, as most buyers are a bit reluctant to trust 30 year old headphones, for a good reason.
Over the years there have been a whole line of capsules for the 770+990 that have nothing in common with the old ones: 32ohms, 50 ohms, 250, new 600ohms, etc.etc. - if you go hunting, keep that in mind - you are much more likely to run into those than the 1985-92 variant. (…)

This capsule doesn't like it when hair or something gets in and ever so slightly touches the membrane. Buzzzzzzzz. When hair or -gasp!- dust or -more gasp!- little magnetic particles get into the magnet gap you're usually S.O.L., in a few cases you can reverse the mic as a "speaker" and run a series of sine tones through the capsule via a headphone amp, if you hit the right (resonant, I suspect) frequency you might be lucky and the dirt falls out. (in case of magnetic particles.. no)
So far I have gone through a number of old headphones and nearly everyone failed the sine wave test, that means dirt/dust/hair either in the magnet gap or behind the membrane. If it's ON the membrane, you can clean it. If it's not too bad, you could still use it for kickdrum and maybe get away with it, but on bass amp you will get a "kchzzzz" on clean tones, at least on the attack and loud notes, it depends. What I've been upt to in the last few months - going through used headphones/capsules to see which one have the best chance to live on in a M380. The failure rate, for what I found, is higher than 50% for capsules to be dead and for the rest, less than half pass the low sinewave test to check if there is dirt/hair on the membrane or worse, in the magnet gap - which makes them buzz or resonate on bass and low mids. I came across three different capsules, the white one most have already seen, the one with a black gauze on the back to prevent dirt coming in from the back and a third with a slightly darker tint of white.


I put a fully working 380 capsule into the body of a dead/empty AKG D12. There aren't that many housings where you could put in the 380 capsule, as it's quite big, even without the "collar" holding it. (which also prevents hair and dirt to get to the sticky membrane) This works. Regarding finding a fully working, non-buzzing capsule in old headphones: good luck. Regarding getting a new capsule as a replacement: there are none in production that work like the old 380. There has been a little talk about a limited run of capsules, but so far there's nothing substantial.
Hi, few months back I got lucky and bought working vintage DT990, 600ohm headphones for 40€. No buzzing in these. They do sound a bit too bassy for my taste to let them be as is. I have one broken ribbon mic body that I'll be using as doner body. Will 3D print a mount for the capsule. Happy times. If it works ok, I might sell the other capsule if someone interested.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #17
Gear Maniac
Did the mod today. Here are some pics.

The headphone mounting grill was ok, no need for printed version. After snipping off the sides I had to remove some material from the capsule clamp sides also, the capsule was quite big and would not have fitted otherwise.

I accidentally broke the first capsule. When pushing it in the donor body, I bend the soldering contacts and the other broke loose cutting the lead from the coil.

Second time worked ok, did some sound tests and was surpriced how well it complemented Beta52 though I'm not a huge fan of that Shure mic. Didn't do so much with AKG D3600. The AKG is super good sounding as is and only needs tiny bit of EQ. I don't have EV RE20 to test the Steve Albini setup. I can upload sound samples if someone wants to have a listen.

Anyways. Not bad for 40€ (headphones) + 20€ for donor body. It just pisses me off I broke the other capsule...
Attached Thumbnails
Now that the Beyer M380 is no more, are there any Figure-8 dynamic mics in existence?-img_20190303_173254__01.jpg   Now that the Beyer M380 is no more, are there any Figure-8 dynamic mics in existence?-img_20190303_173517__01.jpg   Now that the Beyer M380 is no more, are there any Figure-8 dynamic mics in existence?-img_20190303_173646__01.jpg   Now that the Beyer M380 is no more, are there any Figure-8 dynamic mics in existence?-img_20190303_184555__01.jpg   Now that the Beyer M380 is no more, are there any Figure-8 dynamic mics in existence?-img_20190303_184328.jpg  

Now that the Beyer M380 is no more, are there any Figure-8 dynamic mics in existence?-img_20190303_173054__01.jpg  
Old 3rd March 2019
  #18
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans View Post
Hello, over at electrical audio there was a thread where i gave some info, i'll copy this and edit it down to a few sentences:

The capsule in the M380 was also inside the headphones DT770 and DT990 from 1985 until around 1992, it's the 600 ohms variant. Then the 250 ohms capsule went into those headphones but not to the M380, which weren't made anymore. The Opus 65 and TG-X50 obviously have nothing in common except the housing.
For all those who want to look on Ebay for those 80s DT770+990 ... don't get your hopes up too high. Most of them are, after just 30 years or so, in slightly less than stellar condition. I dissected a few I could get my hands on, even after thorough cleaning a good number still has that giveaway buzz when fed low frequency sine tones (also a good way to check AKG D12s, of which IMHO 95% are junk by now). To make matters worse, the audiophiles still hold these 600 ohms DT 770+990 in high regard, which drives prices up. At least those of the sellers, as most buyers are a bit reluctant to trust 30 year old headphones, for a good reason.
Over the years there have been a whole line of capsules for the 770+990 that have nothing in common with the old ones: 32ohms, 50 ohms, 250, new 600ohms, etc.etc. - if you go hunting, keep that in mind - you are much more likely to run into those than the 1985-92 variant. (…)

This capsule doesn't like it when hair or something gets in and ever so slightly touches the membrane. Buzzzzzzzz. When hair or -gasp!- dust or -more gasp!- little magnetic particles get into the magnet gap you're usually S.O.L., in a few cases you can reverse the mic as a "speaker" and run a series of sine tones through the capsule via a headphone amp, if you hit the right (resonant, I suspect) frequency you might be lucky and the dirt falls out. (in case of magnetic particles.. no)
So far I have gone through a number of old headphones and nearly everyone failed the sine wave test, that means dirt/dust/hair either in the magnet gap or behind the membrane. If it's ON the membrane, you can clean it. If it's not too bad, you could still use it for kickdrum and maybe get away with it, but on bass amp you will get a "kchzzzz" on clean tones, at least on the attack and loud notes, it depends. What I've been upt to in the last few months - going through used headphones/capsules to see which one have the best chance to live on in a M380. The failure rate, for what I found, is higher than 50% for capsules to be dead and for the rest, less than half pass the low sinewave test to check if there is dirt/hair on the membrane or worse, in the magnet gap - which makes them buzz or resonate on bass and low mids. I came across three different capsules, the white one most have already seen, the one with a black gauze on the back to prevent dirt coming in from the back and a third with a slightly darker tint of white.


I put a fully working 380 capsule into the body of a dead/empty AKG D12. There aren't that many housings where you could put in the 380 capsule, as it's quite big, even without the "collar" holding it. (which also prevents hair and dirt to get to the sticky membrane) This works. Regarding finding a fully working, non-buzzing capsule in old headphones: good luck. Regarding getting a new capsule as a replacement: there are none in production that work like the old 380. There has been a little talk about a limited run of capsules, but so far there's nothing substantial.
Just a question. Has anyone tried new DT capsules as microphones? They might be well suited though not exactly the same.
Old 4th March 2019
  #19
Gear Maniac
I know I'm making this the M380 mod thread but man!! I did some 'inside kick' recordings today and the sound is BOOM. I tested it as a vocal mic also and +3 boost with the BBE maximixer to the top end and it was really good sounding.

I have some small (14mm) planar magnetic drivers coming really soon. Will start a thread about those. I'm planning making some for sale later if those sound good. Those will be with machined parts, no donor hacks. They are figure8 pattern.
Old 13th March 2019
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmutant View Post
I know I'm making this the M380 mod thread but man!! I did some 'inside kick' recordings today and the sound is BOOM. I tested it as a vocal mic also and +3 boost with the BBE maximixer to the top end and it was really good sounding.

I have some small (14mm) planar magnetic drivers coming really soon. Will start a thread about those. I'm planning making some for sale later if those sound good. Those will be with machined parts, no donor hacks. They are figure8 pattern.
hmmm. Interested.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
Dr. Jule's Avatar
 

I just found out recently that Sennheiser MD 4 is a figure-of-eight dynamic too.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
Lives for gear
 
pete's Avatar
 

cool thread..! I have a 770 headphone (250 ohm) laying around - no chance that I can modify that one into a "close to the 380" sounding mic?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete View Post
cool thread..! I have a 770 headphone (250 ohm) laying around - no chance that I can modify that one into a "close to the 380" sounding mic?
Hi, it very well could. You can test it without destroying it. Just take one of the driver frames out and solder xlr + & - to the correponding plates. Don't remove the driver from the frame. The aluminium mesh protects the membrane. Have a go a see is you like it. You can always return it back to headphone if you didn't.

Some drivers have different amount of padding on the back. That will reflect to the low end response. Thicker the badding, less bass.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Lives for gear
 
frans's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete View Post
cool thread..! I have a 770 headphone (250 ohm) laying around - no chance that I can modify that one into a "close to the 380" sounding mic?
According to Beyer service people, the newer capsules don't work the same as the old ones and aren't identical to those that were used in the M380. Of course you can try them as a mic capsule and see for yourself. For further info i copy a few blocks of text from another thread:


"The capsule in the M380 was also inside the headphones DT770 and DT990 from 1985 until around 1992, it's the 600 ohms variant. Then the 250 ohms capsule went into those headphones but not to the M380, which weren't made anymore. The Opus 65 and TG-X50 obviously have nothing in common except the housing.
For all those who want to look on Ebay for those 80s DT770+990 ... don't get your hopes up too high. Most of them are, after just 30 years or so, in slightly less than stellar condition. I dissected a few I could get my hands on, even after thorough cleaning a good number still has that giveaway buzz when fed low frequency sine tones (also a good way to check AKG D12s, of which IMHO 95% are junk by now). To make matters worse, the audiophiles still hold these 600 ohms DT 770+990 in high regard, which drives prices up. At least those of the sellers, as most buyers are a bit reluctant to trust 30 year old headphones, for a good reason. So, here are my long term plans:
-trying to check the spare parts from Beyer, both 250 and 600 ohms if they would work as an old M380 capsule and report back here
-trying to get hold of usable old parts from headphones
-there is a mystery source for 600ohm capsules from Hungary, but I don't know how many there are
-over the years there have been a whole line of capsules for the 770+990 that have nothing in common with the old ones: 32ohms, 50 ohms, 250, new 600ohms, etc.etc. - if you go hunting, keep that in mind - you are much more likely to run into those than the 1985-92 variant. ....
Another snippet: the old 600 ohms capsules measure around 570-580 ohms DC.

From the info i gathered the fact the 600 ohms version is working as we like it might be tied to the mass of the coil together with the membrane. When they changed the wire to make the coil 250 ohms, it got sturdier but it behaved differently. I studied a few of the variants of the headphone capsules and tried them as microphones, but so far none work as good for my like those way-back-600 ohms. Their very thin wire makes them prone to an early demise. They might have used this exact membrane/coil carrier ring elsewhere, but if anybody can pull of the laquered wiring, clean the ring, put on new wire and have it fit the magnet gap without rubbing - phew... This gets on the list of questions I will ask the Beyerdynamic service when I phone them. But taking the humbucking coil apart to DIY it wouldn't be rocket science.

What I've been upt to in the last few months - going through used headphones/capsules to see which one have the best chance to live on in a M380. The failure rate, for what I found, is higher than 50% for capsules to be dead and for the rest, less than half pass the low sinewave test to check if there is dirt/hair on the membrane or worse, in the magnet gap - which makes them buzz or resonate on bass and low mids. I came across three different capsules, the white one most have already seen, the one with a black gauze on the back to prevent dirt coming in from the back and a third with a slightly darker tint of white."
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans View Post
According to Beyer service people, the newer capsules don't work the same as the old ones and aren't identical to those that were used in the M380. Of course you can try them as a mic capsule and see for yourself. For further info i copy a few blocks of text from another thread:


"The capsule in the M380 was also inside the headphones DT770 and DT990 from 1985 until around 1992, it's the 600 ohms variant. Then the 250 ohms capsule went into those headphones but not to the M380, which weren't made anymore. The Opus 65 and TG-X50 obviously have nothing in common except the housing.
For all those who want to look on Ebay for those 80s DT770+990 ... don't get your hopes up too high. Most of them are, after just 30 years or so, in slightly less than stellar condition. I dissected a few I could get my hands on, even after thorough cleaning a good number still has that giveaway buzz when fed low frequency sine tones (also a good way to check AKG D12s, of which IMHO 95% are junk by now). To make matters worse, the audiophiles still hold these 600 ohms DT 770+990 in high regard, which drives prices up. At least those of the sellers, as most buyers are a bit reluctant to trust 30 year old headphones, for a good reason. So, here are my long term plans:
-trying to check the spare parts from Beyer, both 250 and 600 ohms if they would work as an old M380 capsule and report back here
-trying to get hold of usable old parts from headphones
-there is a mystery source for 600ohm capsules from Hungary, but I don't know how many there are
-over the years there have been a whole line of capsules for the 770+990 that have nothing in common with the old ones: 32ohms, 50 ohms, 250, new 600ohms, etc.etc. - if you go hunting, keep that in mind - you are much more likely to run into those than the 1985-92 variant. ....
Another snippet: the old 600 ohms capsules measure around 570-580 ohms DC.

From the info i gathered the fact the 600 ohms version is working as we like it might be tied to the mass of the coil together with the membrane. When they changed the wire to make the coil 250 ohms, it got sturdier but it behaved differently. I studied a few of the variants of the headphone capsules and tried them as microphones, but so far none work as good for my like those way-back-600 ohms. Their very thin wire makes them prone to an early demise. They might have used this exact membrane/coil carrier ring elsewhere, but if anybody can pull of the laquered wiring, clean the ring, put on new wire and have it fit the magnet gap without rubbing - phew... This gets on the list of questions I will ask the Beyerdynamic service when I phone them. But taking the humbucking coil apart to DIY it wouldn't be rocket science.

What I've been upt to in the last few months - going through used headphones/capsules to see which one have the best chance to live on in a M380. The failure rate, for what I found, is higher than 50% for capsules to be dead and for the rest, less than half pass the low sinewave test to check if there is dirt/hair on the membrane or worse, in the magnet gap - which makes them buzz or resonate on bass and low mids. I came across three different capsules, the white one most have already seen, the one with a black gauze on the back to prevent dirt coming in from the back and a third with a slightly darker tint of white."
To me this was old news, but to others helpfull information. I think the previous post were just about trying out 250ohm capsule as a mic. I might buy one also. I think there should not be any reason it would not work as a mic. There's a difference in "is it the same" and "is the sound usable".
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