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it's a mistake!
Old 13th September 2011
  #1
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

it's a mistake!

i have spent about 35.000$ on studio gear, always started with the question: "best ... for under ....$" in order to make the best bang for buck and then immediately gone to ebay to make a good shot.
always wanted to be successful and starting a music career with this kind of strategy.
however, no i have realised that it is the wrong approach!
i have learned, that music is closely related to personality which has no chance to develop by pursuing a permanent low cost strategy.
for instance: my yamaha u3 upright piano is kind of studio standard on a budget.
if i could turn back time, i would have bought a steinway upright for just a few dollars more or i wouldn't have bought my mesa boogie mark iv for it's more of a universal soldier recording machine than an amp with personality, i would have bought an all-tube hiwatt instead.
all my buys have been done under the low cost, maximised value for money aspect, which is not a rewarding attitude, and i have spent many many dollars having made this experience.
Old 13th September 2011
  #2
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James Lugo's Avatar
 

I am personally never looking for the cheaper deal. Every time I save money I get screwed somehow. Either mediocre product, time wasted hunting it down or poor customer service. And that's not to say I haven't experienced those things when spending top dollar but I usually stand a better chance of coming out on top. Quality usually costs money.
Old 13th September 2011
  #3
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo View Post
I am personally never looking for the cheaper deal. Every time I save money I get screwed somehow. Either mediocre product, time wasted hunting it down or poor customer service. And that's not to say I haven't experienced those things when spending top dollar but I usually stand a better chance of coming out on top. Quality usually costs money.
I couldn't agree more. Although, I must say that I am really happy with the one thing that I went "budget" on, and that's my Presonus Firestudio w/ a Digimax FS and Focusrite Octopre Mk 2. I could have gone Motu or Digidesign, but I went Presonus and couldn't be happier.
Old 13th September 2011
  #4
Lives for gear
 
TornadoTed's Avatar
I think we all make mistakes with our purchases especially starting out. I made plenty over the years, I guess it's one of the reasons why the classified section on here is so busy!
Old 13th September 2011
  #5
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo View Post
I am personally never looking for the cheaper deal. Every time I save money I get screwed somehow. Either mediocre product, time wasted hunting it down or poor customer service. And that's not to say I haven't experienced those things when spending top dollar but I usually stand a better chance of coming out on top. Quality usually costs money.
yes, this is certainly true!
but one important point i have to make is: is it about quality or about personality?
i mean, there are lots of quality products, e.g. a mesa boogie mark iv is a high quality product, BUT
if you would now compare this product against your reeves amp, there is a huge difference in personality between the two.
with a machine like a mark iv, you always TRY to get to a certain point, which is in my opinion kind of unmusical whereas with the reeves it's different.
same with avalon gear: those are classified as "high end" - but to what extent?
from a technical point of view: absolutely.
but why are they so unpopular against a massive passive, against a vary mu or against the tons of preamps, neve clones etc.?
so in terms of science they are high end, but not from an art perspective.
Old 13th September 2011
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Yes, but...

I totally get you on the premise, but having been in the same position regarding the U3, I'd say don't knock it. I record often in great studios with amazing pianos we all revere, but music blossoms in character, and this piano has it. It has often trumped the Steinway grand at other places once I get things back home.

I'm a firm believer of "eat's what's in the fridge, and make it a feast".

By and large, though I agree with you.
Old 13th September 2011
  #7
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captainate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicee7 View Post
I totally get you on the premise, but having been in the same position regarding the U3, I'd say don't knock it. I record often in great studios with amazing pianos we all revere, but music blossoms in character, and this piano has it. It has often trumped the Steinway grand at other places once I get things back home.

I'm a firm believer of "eat's what's in the fridge, and make it a feast".

By and large, though I agree with you.
Not to disagree, but don't forget how different pianos on the same production run can be. You could have gotten a gem while his is a dud.

The piano faculty at my university flew to Hamburg to test out the two newest additions to our concert hall. They were all D series Steinways, and all very different. They ended up with two "identical" pianos, when in reality one has a thick, rich bottom end and an overall heavier sound, and the other is light, fast, delicate and a tight bass response. heh
Old 13th September 2011
  #8
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicee7 View Post
I totally get you on the premise, but having been in the same position regarding the U3, I'd say don't knock it. I record often in great studios with amazing pianos we all revere, but music blossoms in character, and this piano has it. It has often trumped the Steinway grand at other places once I get things back home.

I'm a firm believer of "eat's what's in the fridge, and make it a feast".

By and large, though I agree with you.
this is where i hope, those "articles" i bought still do possess some sort of "potential" which will show up in a certain future recording situation.
maybe i haven't described myself not 100% correct...
i wouldn't say, that i've got a low cost studio, but i made a compromise in "best value for money" instead of looking after stuff that really fits to my personality, or stuff which got it's distinctive personality itself.
i don't think, that one would be able to produce a world changing record only by using the sort of combination, which were used so many thousand times before!
real differentiation must be hidden somewhere within the value chain.
chances are not too high that one would be able to create a differentiating record if the value chain consists solely of standard stuff.
Old 13th September 2011
  #9
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

i mean: Bruce Springsteen achieved differentiation with his 53' esquire guitar. Brian May's guitar was built with dedication and love by his father.
these are examples for what i call "real differentiation and personality".
i really like the upcoming new craftmanship work of companis like mywatt, reußenzehn t. who just manufacture their own amps without a compromise with love, dedication, vision, mission etc.
i would now prefer to buy an original 65 fender musicmaster instead of buying the 100.000 stratocaster relic!
Old 13th September 2011
  #10
I've learned to not buy anything without trying it. The people on these forums can point you in the right direction of stuff to try, but you've got to get your hands on something to really know.
Old 13th September 2011
  #11
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximo View Post
I've learned to not buy anything without trying it. The people on these forums can point you in the right direction of stuff to try, but you've got to get your hands on something to really know.
100%

as i permanently followed another approach, i have to live with it.
Old 13th September 2011
  #12
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

by the way:
voila my equipment list (in no order):

yamaha u3 upright 1970, les paul 1996 std, fender strat usa 1993, telefunken m16mkii, neumann m147 tube, mesa boogie mark iv, ampeg b25b, 2-ch brent averill 1272, basix vintage drumkit with paiste signature hihats/crash/ride, dbx 386, urei 1176ln G, portico 5043, yamaha fx outboards, roland fx outboards, behringer revpro 2496, fender p-bass, soundcraft delta 200 deluxe mixing desk, emes kobalt speakers, clavia nord electro II, apogee da16, tascam msr16, yamaha LL16 acoustic guitar, uad1 all plugs except the multiband, wavelab 7, cubase 3 sl etc...
i also had a waves L2 hardware limiter which i gave away to my engineer as a present.
Old 13th September 2011
  #13
Lives for gear
I've come to learn, that sometimes we are better off waiting and getting the thing we want instead of trying to cut a corner. I learned this with my guitar gear over the years, and need to keep reminding myself to take the same approach with my new found project studio hobby. I've bought many a cheap guitars because its a cheaper alternative for the one that I really wanted, only to be disappointed and end up selling it not far down the road in order to get the one I want.
Old 13th September 2011
  #14
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Guitfiddle's Avatar
I agree with a lot of comments on this thread. I have also went down the path of destruction and waste with gear in the beginning. I bought cheap when I first started out. Learned a lot on the cheap gear and when my mixes and projects started to sound better, I decided to spend a little more after I started thinking I was on to something. Took classes, honed my craft, then I started thinking I had a clue at one point, I invested more. Now, I want to invest more, but the industry has changed so much I am waiting for the next big game changer before I buy any more highend gear...It's mostly instruments now, however sometimes I can't pass up a good deal on something specific I am looking for.
Old 13th September 2011
  #15
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

thanks for your interesting thoughts which i also share to some extent.

i also am familiar with these visions that comes to mind when playing on a certain instrument or only just when you see it... are they just appearing for illusion?
or should we take them serious?
in my opinion, these thoughts appear for a reason! and i think it's real musical reasons that facilitate creativity and i think then it's time whether we know if this piece of gear fits to our plans.
unfortunately, many times it happens that i just turn off or ignore these visions and am looking for a compromise, to look at some stuff which would provide similar or comparable specifications.
and THIS i would describe as a major mistake in the value chain and why we well get the wrong piece in the end. unfortunately.
Old 13th September 2011
  #16
Lives for gear
 

If I had 35,000 dollars I would of spent it all on a console and either a couple of 24 tracks or converters. You can pick the stuff up dirt cheap now days still. I wouldn't of spent it on a paino you can get a kurtzwel for 300 bucks now days and after 1983 nobody used anything else anyway.

I think a lot of people put there eggs in the wrong basket. Everyone buys these boutique amps and this and that trying to get a classic sound when everything back in the day was recorded on fender twins, bassmans and champs. I could get a casio to sound good with the right console.
Old 13th September 2011
  #17
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lakeshorephatty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
I wouldn't of spent it on a paino you can get a kurtzwel for 300 bucks now days and after 1983 nobody used anything else anyway.
Thats exactly the opposite of the OP's premise, which I tend to agree with. Make things unique. I rarely want to touch digital pianos because you really can't affect the space they are in. You can't pull the mic back or put it in an unusual spot.

Russell
Old 13th September 2011
  #18
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

thanks Russell.

should a console really be THE key success factor?

Springsteen recorded his Atlantic City song on a 4-track multritracker, no console at all was used.
Old 13th September 2011
  #19
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Chucho's Avatar
 

That's funny coz I just spent the day recording my little upright piano.
I often wish I had spent a bit more than I did.

I like it a lot but I know it could be much much better.
Old 13th September 2011
  #20
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Chucho's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
I wouldn't of spent it on a paino you can get a kurtzwel for 300 bucks now days and after 1983 nobody used anything else anyway.
Wrong answer. Must try harder.

It's "wouldn't have..." by the way.
Old 13th September 2011
  #21
Gear Nut
 

My gear buying strategy has always been to get what I need, regardless of price (to an extent). What I need and what I want are usually two different things. However, the complicated part is trying to figure out what order to purchase gear in. Which came first, the mic or the pre? It's hard, because things like plugins are comparatively cheap, and promise a lot, but also go outdated while I'm waiting for money to come in for the larger gear purchases so I have to really hold myself back on some things.
Old 13th September 2011
  #22
You have a console and enough musical gear to fill a small store. If you have storage, you should be recording music now. If not, that's the mistake I see.
Old 13th September 2011
  #23
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Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
You have a console and enough musical gear to fill a small store. If you have storage, you should be recording music now. If not, that's the mistake I see.
if i was located in the US i would have done my best to get you contracted to modify my soundcraft delta 200 deluxe, Mr. Williams

yes, indeed i still plan to get the whole mess assembled in order to get all the pieces interacting with each other - in the hope that the accompanying synergies, which i regard as promising, will take me to a level i've never been before as a musician.

that's why i haven't given up yet.
Old 14th September 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
it's a mistake!

There is an old essay called The Station. All the things we will accomplish or achieve when we reach "the station". When we have this, or made it to "X" place, then we will be there and ready to achieve our dreams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo_007
i would now prefer to buy an original 65 fender musicmaster instead of buying the 100.000 stratocaster relic!
There's no guaranty that a 45 year old student instrument will be superior to a new topline one. The wood may have dried out but each piece of wood is different, and neck pocket fits have tolerances, and each instrument will have it's own personality. It's finding the one that inspires you that counts. Not the serial number stamped on it.

I know so many folks who are constantly buying and flipping gear in an endless tonequest. It's not collecting a quiver of voices for different applications. It's not being satisfied and waiting until they find "the one". Some show up to every gig with different stuff. Some never even play out because their tone isn't there yet.

I guess growing up poor, where a Sears guitar and amp was heaven sent compared to the dime store stuff I started on, made me look to myself for getting the sound and music out of the instrument. It never occurred to me that you could buy it. At least I never considered it since I've never had $35k to pour into music.
Old 14th September 2011
  #25
Lives for gear
Buy once, cry once. Tried and true.
Old 14th September 2011
  #26
Its never to late to buy the best! On a budget I always buy what I can afford and upgrade later. If I really want something I will save up for. If you buy it used for a good deal you will never lose much money, Overall I break even and sometimes make a profit. I think I have sold over 250 personal guitar/audio items on ebay!

I have some gear that will go to grave with me while other gear I could sell tomorrow without blinking a eye.

I am constantly scheming to see if I could sell xy for Z! Sometimes its a upgrade here for a downgrade there.
Old 14th September 2011
  #27
So you're saying that when people hear your mixes, they're thinking, "oh, that doesn't have personality because I can hear it's a Yamaha upright, not a Steinway upright?" You sure that's the problem?
Old 14th September 2011
  #28
restpause
Guest
I have almost always gone for cheaper stuff and the problem with it is that ANY gear can be lacking features whether it's expensive or not. But it's so easy to make multiple low cost purchases which end up costing more than a single medium or high cost purchase. Any purchase can be a disappointment though.
Old 14th September 2011
  #29
Gear Addict
 
Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
There is an old essay called The Station. All the things we will accomplish or achieve when we reach "the station". When we have this, or made it to "X" place, then we will be there and ready to achieve our dreams.



There's no guaranty that a 45 year old student instrument will be superior to a new topline one. The wood may have dried out but each piece of wood is different, and neck pocket fits have tolerances, and each instrument will have it's own personality. It's finding the one that inspires you that counts. Not the serial number stamped on it.

I know so many folks who are constantly buying and flipping gear in an endless tonequest. It's not collecting a quiver of voices for different applications. It's not being satisfied and waiting until they find "the one". Some show up to every gig with different stuff. Some never even play out because their tone isn't there yet.

I guess growing up poor, where a Sears guitar and amp was heaven sent compared to the dime store stuff I started on, made me look to myself for getting the sound and music out of the instrument. It never occurred to me that you could buy it. At least I never considered it since I've never had $35k to pour into music.
indeed, opportunity costs have been enormous. music equipment seemed important to me and to my development as a musician.

well, why the 65 musicmaster instead of a meaningless 0-8-15 stratocaster...!?
to me, a (new) stratocaster is nothing special anymore.
it's like the 1.000.000.000.000th song named "i love you" or so....
not to say, success would be guaranteed when buying a 65 musicmaster, but chances are higher you would be able to communicate sth more special than using a standard instrument which is found in millions other gear slutz homes and which are produced under the "operational effectiveness"-umbrella which i would describe as the opposite of what is understood as musical artworks or dedicated craftmanship. there's simply nothing special about it any more.
just
Old 14th September 2011
  #30
Gear Addict
 
Leonardo_007's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Early21 View Post
So you're saying that when people hear your mixes, they're thinking, "oh, that doesn't have personality because I can hear it's a Yamaha upright, not a Steinway upright?" You sure that's the problem?
as for me, i have always had some sort of inspiration or inner voice that makes me aware of what i should be longing for when buying a certain piece of gear.
unfortunately, most of the time that desired "thing" costs a bit more than the later decided compromise.
as music is a creative process, the desired things can take you to a much higher level, in my opinion.
it's like having sex with your dream woman.
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