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Saw the Midas F16 today.... WTF were they thinking??? Mixers (Analog)
Old 10th September 2011
  #1
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Saw the Midas F16 today.... WTF were they thinking???

Dropped by my local retailer today and was pointed in the direction of the brand new in stock Midas F16....
This is in a similar price bracket and range as the Allen Heath GSR24, Toft ATB both of which have fantastic styling.
What the hell were the makers of the Midas thinking???
This is the ugliest piece of gear I think I have ever seen! Even the guys at the store were admitting just how bad the thing looked. It's unnecessarily bulky, the colors are disgusting, the faders and knobs look cheap and childish, this thing looks like it belongs more in a preschool than a studio.
I know in the end it's about the sound, this is AUDIO gear, but I'd be embarrassed to have clients see that thing on my desk.
I had a play with the EQ knobs and moved the faders around, pressed the buttons, all seems pretty solid though the EQ is ridiculously cramped, the unit just looks so amateur.
I would LOOOOOOOOVE to hear if anyone has one, is thinking of buying one, and if so how you managed to overcome the catastrophic ugliness??
For $7000 I can think of soooo many other things I would buy instead of this.
Old 10th September 2011
  #2
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I looked up an internet picture of the unit...doesn't look that bad in the photos.
Old 10th September 2011
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
I looked up an internet picture of the unit...doesn't look that bad in the photos.
Gotta agree, it's not that ugly!LOL
Old 10th September 2011
  #4
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The F16 looks good to me.

Its not a studio board, they are designed for live use and touring.
It looks like any other Midas desk, well laid out and well thought out colours so faders and pots can be picked out easily in low lit venues and at outdoor shows.
Old 10th September 2011
  #5
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I just googled it myself and will agree, in the promo shots especially birds eye view it doesn't look too bad, but in fact it almost doesn't look like what I saw today.
See it in person I promise you'll see what I mean, I've totally been shut down by that google search though....
I have seen alot of other Midas boards and nothing as visually offputting as this!
I had heard that this was likely going to see most of it's use live, but I do know that alot of people have been interested to see how this would go in the studio, especially with the firewire options.
Old 10th September 2011
  #6
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Midas VeniceF-16 16-Channel Hybrid Console Mixer VENICE F-16 B&H

Is B and H's F16 page. Kinda hard to tell.....but I can see how that might have a cheap look up close. The i saw the price and saw that that particular board was 1500.00 less than B and H's price for a Toft 16 channel.

So I'm wondering of the photos or the markets are mismatched.

Lets keep in ming that this is one of the first new Midas products since Behringer bought them, so it could be a look at the future.
Old 11th September 2011
  #7
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Didn't realise behringer had bought them, that says so much....
That price is 1/2 what I was quoted at my retailer! Not that I was interested, merely curious to see how much an eye sore sells for these days.
Old 12th September 2011
  #8
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
Lets keep in ming that this is one of the first new Midas products since Behringer bought them, so it could be a look at the future.

I'd heard that the terms of the buyout dictated that they had 2 years before behringer could do anything to the products or personnel.

Come to think of it, that might have been two years ago that I heard that, or it could've been earlier this year.

Lousy brain...


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 12th September 2011
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YULOGY View Post
the EQ is ridiculously cramped
I bought the F32, and this is the only part of your post I can agree with. I know you bought the GS-R24, which was in my plan, until I discovered about the total cost of the unit. Yours is a nice looking board, but I have absolutely no shame in mine as far as look is concerned. It's solid, sounds great and the layout is very clear. And I had absolutely zero problem with the Firewire aspect of the Midas. After reading of your misadventures with the GS-R24, I am even more glad that I chose the Midas over my two other choices: The A&H, and the Toft ATB32.

It's kinda interesting you're talking about the look of the Venice F though. I really think the current look compared to the first Venice is a major step up as far as professionalism goes. But in the end, it's all about your own standards of aesthetics.
Old 12th September 2011
  #10
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I love the venice F's look...and the sound especially.
strange how tastes differ?
Yes...in real life it PERHAPS looks a little more suspect than in pictures but i have found the layout and
theme really good on the eyes in my low lit studio room at home!

Love the F's small footprint too...that's a big reason i bought one.
It sounds great....the (rather cramped) EQ is musical and dramatic...the fixed bands on the
sterio channels are VERY well chosen and the parametric is full of body where my plugins faulter at times.
The non motorized and slightly delicate faders just stay where i put them....
and that is all i need them to do!!!
The excellent firewire implementation has saved me from 'interface hell' too...
Great value really..
It just works!!

scruffydog
Attached Thumbnails
Saw the Midas F16 today.... WTF were they thinking???-desks-look.jpg   Saw the Midas F16 today.... WTF were they thinking???-desks-look-b.jpg  
Old 12th September 2011
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltones View Post
I had absolutely zero problem with the Firewire aspect of the Midas. After reading of your misadventures with the GS-R24, I am even more glad that I chose the Midas over my two other choices: The A&H, and the Toft ATB32.

It's kinda interesting you're talking about the look of the Venice F though. I really think the current look compared to the first Venice is a major step up as far as professionalism goes. But in the end, it's all about your own standards of aesthetics.
Glad to hear people are digging it, it really is an exciting piece of gear, I myself was really keen to check it out when I heard the retailer had it in. Like I said, the aesthetics of it.... just weren't to my taste. Nice to hear there's no problems with the setup, nothing worse when making such a big studio change like a new console. Mine indeed was a headache to setup.... Finally it's the joy it alway should have been though
Old 12th September 2011
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffydog View Post
I love the venice F's look...and the sound especially.
strange how tastes differ?
Yes...in real life it PERHAPS looks a little more suspect than in pictures but i have found the layout and
theme really good on the eyes in my low lit studio room at home!

Love the F's small footprint too...that's a big reason i bought one.
It sounds great....the (rather cramped) EQ is musical and dramatic...the fixed bands on the
sterio channels are VERY well chosen and the parametric is full of body where my plugins faulter at times.
The non motorized and slightly delicate faders just stay where i put them....
and that is all i need them to do!!!
The excellent firewire implementation has saved me from 'interface hell' too...
Great value really..
It just works!!

scruffydog
The bigger version really does look a whole lot better, the F16 that I saw, the sides and chassis are so big and disproportionate! Really is a big fat deep console, but much better proportioned in the larger sizes! is the chassis/body color a weird purpley burgendy freaking weird color on yours?
Old 12th September 2011
  #13
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Scruffydog, digging the LM32 btw :P
Old 12th September 2011
  #14
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Saw the Midas F16 today.... WTF were they thinking???

Does anyone else consider it odd to have 4 subgroups on an 8 channel mixer? I have both a MixWiz and a GL for live work and hardly ever use the subgroups on the GL. Maybe if there is a horn section or something. Even a vocal subgroup is of marginal utility to me as most local bands don't have a consistent self mix on vocals to begin with. Everyone is eating the mic whether it's lead or background parts.

For recording, especially retro guys with 3440s, the subgroups on a small board might make more sense. But as people say, this is primarily targeted as a live board. I guess for keyboard/track acts with all the stereo channels.
Old 12th September 2011
  #15
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It's a Midas, it looks like a Midas, it's a LIVE BOARD ! The Midas look is designed to be useable in low light, fat plastic sides lighter than wood, easier to Put nice gripable handles.
They put subs on the small ones because
1 Cheap to use one channel strip and one master section on all consoles.
2 you can use another console as a side car when pinched for inputs.
3 I have seen lots of small corporate events where subs where used as presets.
Old 12th September 2011
  #16
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Come on men, it looks good. Don't get what's your problem with the colours to differentiate aux, master faders, track faders...?
It's even cool for me.
Old 12th September 2011
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YULOGY View Post
the F16 that I saw, the sides and chassis are so big and disproportionate! Really is a big fat deep console, but much better proportioned in the larger sizes!
Ah, then yep, you do have a point with the F16's look. The new shape doesn't really fit that number of channels.

So far, there's only one thing I find really unfortunate with the Venice F: As far as Firewire goes, the inserts on the Group/Master Section are all pre-insert, meaning that if I have a compressor going on a drum group for example, and I want to send that group processed signal back to the DAW via FW, it's going to be the original signal and not the processed signal. Same thing for the Master Inserts.
Old 13th September 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltones View Post
the inserts on the Group/Master Section are all pre-insert, meaning that if I have a compressor going on a drum group for example, and I want to send that group processed signal back to the DAW via FW, it's going to be the original signal and not the processed signal. Same thing for the Master Inserts.
Damn that really is unfortunate!
No potential workaround?
I wonder why they would do something like that, I can only figure they had simultaneous live mixing and recording in mind thinking a dry feed would be better.
Old 13th September 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YULOGY View Post
Damn that really is unfortunate!
No potential workaround?
I wonder why they would do something like that, I can only figure they had simultaneous live mixing and recording in mind thinking a dry feed would be better.
Well, all the workarounds I can think of involves a second pass of conversion. Best scenario I can think of without another conversion would be to use the Group Output by sending that signal back to a mono or stereo channel and send that channel back to the DAW via Firewire.

I asked Midas about the Group/Master section inserts being pre-insert with the FW capabilities and this is the reply I got:

Quote:
The VeniceF was designed to record audio onto a computer and then do your mixing, adding FX's etc... in the software, then to be returned via firewire into a stereo input. Even though the firewire is activated on a group output, there is still signal present at the group output xlr, so if this output was feeding something else, it also gives the opportunity of using the insert point on the group for another effect. The group firewire output is pre the insert point, and yes it would have been a good idea to have placed a pre/post switch for the firewire output, however this would have added in more cost and unfortunately the line had to be drawn somewhere. The firewire output on the input module can be switched pre or post eq, or by changing a link on the pcb, it can be pre or post fader. The firewire input to the input module is eq only.
Also, as my dealer said when he asked me about the console, this is still a live board first and foremost. I will not use it in this capacity, but it still is what it is. Since it's my first console, I'll find ways to adapt.


By the way, do you have a fan inside your GS-R24?
Old 13th September 2011
  #20
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True to say that the firewire layout is not completely ideal.
but this desk has to cover a lot of bases.
personally i still have a DAT machine and though this is a bit of a faff it will do the job as it has done for many many years.
and if needed allows me to master including the main out inserts....but DAT requires more time to re import and general stuff.

but i can also strap my master comp and EQ across...say.. 1+2.. and leave the master inserts free.. thus staying in the firewire bounce world satisfactorily.
although this is not ideal it is also interesting in that it has shaken my work methods up a little.
i invisage a more 'in parallel' aux send type augmentation to my audio tracks as well as a straight channel assign.
also more bouncing down of elements via the ' 1+2 master buss ' and back through other outboard on the channels.
this is my best shot at not having to buy any kind of modern two track to replace the DAT faff.

a final master can always be poshed up in the firwire domain via inserts on ..say...1+2...
am i wrong?
Old 13th September 2011
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffydog View Post
but i can also strap my master comp and EQ across 1+2 and leave the master inserts free.. thus staying in the firewire bounce world satisfactorily.
Just to make sure we are on the same page, when you say 1+2, do you mean mono channel 1 and mono channel 2 or you're talking about something else?
Old 13th September 2011
  #22
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i mean any pair if channels really...mono 1+2 seems a good start as i have left those inserts free in my studio.
Old 15th September 2011
  #23
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Hey Yulogy, check out this post on a french forum from a guy who just received his F32 and has a few pictures of his installation. As you can see, the design Midas chose fits the bigger model much better than the F16 for sure heh

VENICE F (F16 F24 F32) c'est ici - forum Midas Venice F24 (20/20) - Audiofanzine
Old 16th September 2011
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltones View Post
Hey Yulogy, check out this post on a french forum from a guy who just received his F32 and has a few pictures of his installation. As you can see, the design Midas chose fits the bigger model much better than the F16 for sure heh

VENICE F (F16 F24 F32) c'est ici - forum Midas Venice F24 (20/20) - Audiofanzine
Yeah it does look plenty better in the bigger size, still not my thing (the side arms are such a strange color) but especially for live looks like it'd work well and can see how the color scheme could be advantageous!

I find it strange for such a big desk in that live environment, he only has 2 compressors.... and they're DBX 160's. Perplexed as to why....
Old 28th June 2014
  #25
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so could you not just plug this guy into a computer via firewire and in pro tools assign 24 outs into this board and mix (use the faders/eq etc) with just the firewire cable? They don't/you can't mix on the board? That answer confused me.
Old 3rd July 2014
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicjosh View Post
so could you not just plug this guy into a computer via firewire and in pro tools assign 24 outs into this board and mix (use the faders/eq etc) with just the firewire cable? They don't/you can't mix on the board? That answer confused me.
Dear sonicjosh,

You certainly can. On each channel, simply press the green FireWire Input button, which routes the output of your computer to the input channel.

Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
Old 3rd July 2014
  #27
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To the OP...were you ever interested in purchasing one of these before you saw it? I only ask because I can't think of a single drawback on mine. I use it for toms, hat...extra channels if you will, and I gotta say, it totally rocks. I even have a few channels routed to my patchbay so that I can access the EQ and it has saved the day on channels where I wanted to cut some frequencies. People have even commented on it's looks, saying it looks cool. It replaced a MixWizard that just wasn't doing it for me and is also of the colorful variety. Honestly, the times where I needed to use mostly the preamps on the Midas for tracking a drumset because I was using my transformer balanced standalone units elsewhere, the drums did track quite competitively. I also have an old school 32 channel Venice in my live room and the 2 sound the same aside from the older Venice sounding a little more 'broken in'.

The only gripe I have is that they don't make a rackmount unit without FW or usb, so I had to pay extra to not use any of the digital features. However, for the tone I get, nothing else for $2k is going to get you that sound. I can even mix through it and it sounds great.
Old 4th July 2014
  #28
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natpub's Avatar
It looks great, like a Venice pretty much
Old 5th July 2014
  #29
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TempoTanken's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase McKnight View Post
Dear sonicjosh,

You certainly can. On each channel, simply press the green FireWire Input button, which routes the output of your computer to the input channel.

Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
Hi Chase

The console/workflow is great!
Will it work with a thunderbolt -> firewire adapter?
-with the new Macs?

Thank you
Hans
Old 5th July 2014
  #30
Got a U24 recently from Sweetwater and could not be happier with the sound, layout and look. (And of course the service from Sweetwater!)

There is most certainly nothing cheap about the knobs and sliders. Pots are really solid but yeah a bit cramped... Non issue for me

Really wanted the F32, but my little songwriting studio is just too small. So I got a Carvin 16 channel PA board for the keyboards and put that on top of the keyboard rack... Space problem solved!

Btw, not using the digital stuff on the U24, just the analog console part.

Roger
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