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are outputs buses? Studio Headphones
Old 5th September 2011
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

are outputs buses?

Probably a dumb question...But, people often refer to the master outputs as a 2Bus.

I always thought of a "bus" as something that relating only to "internal" routing.

So, is every output on an audio interface / mixer technically a bus? Like if I send a vocal out of output 1, is the output 1 technically a bus?

I guess a bus is just anything that carries a signal from one place to another?

I was hoping someone could clear this up for me. Thanks.
Old 5th September 2011
  #2
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scottwilson's Avatar
a 'buss' is a route like you say. It's just not always internal bussing.

Technically speaking the 2-bus is a bus, the 8 other busses in a Mackie (for example) are busses, as are the effects sends on a mixer... It just varies on how you assign or vary the level to the bus and what you do with the output.

Inside a real mixer, it's all just a bunch of big strips of conductive metal that goes from one end of the mixer to the other.
Old 5th September 2011
  #3
Registered User
In electrical terms, you have bus bars - lengths of copper where multiple wires are terminated to a common connection.

I guess it could be called a destination. I personally think there has to be at least two sources otherwise it's not a bus, it's just an output or input or insert point as the case may be.
Old 5th September 2011
  #4
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welcome to the bullbleep terminology of audio
controllers dont control - they enter note data
samplers dont sample - they are samples or players of samples
patches dont patch squat - another name for samples
sequencers dont sequence - ..... and so on
Old 5th September 2011
  #5
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Are Outputs Busses? No they are Not.

Outputs can be found at the End of a Buss (At the Destination, as stated above). The Buss (Regardless of whether it called any of these : Mix, Tape, Group, Matrix, Auxillary, Monitor, Echo, FX) is simply a Strip where a number of Inputs/Sources are Summed/Mixed together.

A Direct/Insert Out is an Output that is Tapped directly from an Input/Source.
Old 5th September 2011
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_subsonic View Post
Are Outputs Busses? No they are Not.

Outputs can be found at the End of a Buss (At the Destination, as stated above). The Buss (Regardless of whether it called any of these : Mix, Tape, Group, Matrix, Auxillary, Monitor, Echo, FX) is simply a Strip where a number of Inputs/Sources are Summed/Mixed together.

A Direct/Insert Out is an Output that is Tapped directly from an Input/Source.
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks everybody.

BTW...is it "bus" with one S or "buss" with two. I don't find much consistency in the spelling around here or anywhere actually.
Old 5th September 2011
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hauntedclutter View Post
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks everybody.

BTW...is it "bus" with one S or "buss" with two. I don't find much consistency in the spelling around here or anywhere actually.
somewhere in the 60s i saw a standard that said
buss = electrical path
bus = mechanical thing people ride on
Old 5th September 2011
  #8
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I haven't ever found anything authoritative that used the word 'buss'. Since it comes from electrical/electronic terminology, computers use a 'bus' (Think PCI, USB, etc) and the 'bus bar' referred to earlier uses a single s.

I thought maybe buss was a verb form? Nope, don't see that anywhere. It's just us audio folk that insist on misspelling it for some strange reason.

s
Old 5th September 2011
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
somewhere in the 60s i saw a standard that said
buss = electrical path
bus = mechanical thing people ride on
Yup. The spelling has been around for a while. I think it may have started in the UK (From Electrical Buss Bars), but others are arguing that it should be "Bus". There are further discrepancies between the UK and US about the 2 spellings just to confuse the matter. No way is more right than the other. Maybe "Buss" just makes more sense to me (It's more sensible too, both as a Noun and a Verb) as there is absolutely No Way you can confuse it with a method of public transportation.
Old 5th September 2011
  #10
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Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Just out of curiosity I looked it up in several dictionaries (2 online and one with real pages made of paper.....remember those?)

According to our esteemed keepers of the language:

bus is correct for electrical usage as in "bus bar".

buss is a kiss.

I've always written it as buss.........hard habit to break.
Old 5th September 2011
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwilson View Post
I haven't ever found anything authoritative that used the word 'buss'. Since it comes from electrical/electronic terminology, computers use a 'bus' (Think PCI, USB, etc) and the 'bus bar' referred to earlier uses a single s.

I thought maybe buss was a verb form? Nope, don't see that anywhere. It's just us audio folk that insist on misspelling it for some strange reason.

s
Buss is simply an older spelling. I grew up (in the US) spelling it that way. (But at least a few of the books on audio I read -- I read everything I could find -- were British.) Electricians tied multiple connections to a buss strip. And I believe that was the spelling that tended to be used by magazines like Popular Electronics.



In answer to the OP's peripheral suggestion that his might be a 'dumb question' -- the dumb question is the one not asked. (Pun acknowledged.)

Way too many people in this field try to bluff it way too often. I know I used to and I see a lot of folks doing it still. Part of it is that many of us seem to drop into the field 'in the middle of the fray'... on one hand you don't like to look like an idiot -- particularly if you're the guy others are looking to for answers -- on the other, sometimes expedience sets you up for a fall later...

Back in what some of us old-timers laughingly call the day, there weren't a lot of places to look up this stuff... maybe two books, neither of them particularly up to date nor even all that detailed. (I pretty much gave up looking stuff up in the Woram book -- but at least it had sort of an index.)

Today, we almost have the opposite problem: too much information, but much of it unreliable, incomplete, or passed along by rote by people who don't actually have a fundamental understanding of what they're passing along...
Old 5th September 2011
  #12
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Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

here's a thought,
I've got a copy of The Audio Cyclopedia, by Howard M. Tremaine

It was the audio tech reference book way back in the tube/transistor transition era.
It's over at the studio so it may be tomorrow before I get a chance to look it up.
Maybe another "old timer" has one on hand and can check it quicker.
Old 5th September 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton View Post
Just out of curiosity I looked it up in several dictionaries (2 online and one with real pages made of paper.....remember those?)

According to our esteemed keepers of the language:

bus is correct for electrical usage as in "bus bar".

buss is a kiss.
Curious to hear what you find in Tremaine's book .. Which Edition? In a Number of UK Reference books for Audio (Yes .. Real pages .. Paper heh), buss has been the spelling, but most of the US books I have use the bus spelling. So, the Esteemed keepers of the language claim bus is correct, perhaps because they are from the US?? There is a flimsy Wiki article which cites 2 references from 2000 and 2004 which supports the "bus" spelling. (I'd hazard a guess that some bored academic has been tinkering with Wiki in his spare time.)

While I don't want to divert too much away from the OP, I'm curious to put this through the wringer a little .. heh .. It would good to put this to rest .. It also wouldn't be the first time I was proven wrong, if that's the case ..
Old 5th September 2011
  #14
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Old Goat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton View Post
here's a thought,
I've got a copy of The Audio Cyclopedia, by Howard M. Tremaine

It was the audio tech reference book way back in the tube/transistor transition era.
It's over at the studio so it may be tomorrow before I get a chance to look it up.
Maybe another "old timer" has one on hand and can check it quicker.
The word isn't even in the index, and I don't recall having seen it in the text. It's all inputs, outputs, and groups.
Old 5th September 2011
  #15
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Goat View Post
The word isn't even in the index, and I don't recall having seen it in the text. It's all inputs, outputs, and groups.
Oh well, one man's group is another man's bus......
Old 5th September 2011
  #16
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djmukilteo's Avatar
The term "buss" has always been used to refer to an electrical path.
The reason was to differentiate it's use in technical manuals and "electrical speak" away from the vehicle to avoid any confusion.
You could have a technical sentence using..." the bus has several buss bars interconnecting it's electrical systems".
In electrical terms everything has to be definitive always considering safety in words and definitions over confusion.
Over the years, people just misspell it in context!
People can't spell correctly anymore anyway....so...
Old 5th September 2011
  #17
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Old Goat, if your copy is on hand, just go to the chapter about Mixing Consoles.
Old 5th September 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Buss is simply an older spelling. I grew up (in the US) spelling it that way. (But at least a few of the books on audio I read -- I read everything I could find -- were British.) Electricians tied multiple connections to a buss strip. And I believe that was the spelling that tended to be used by magazines like Popular Electronics.
Yup. Most early Australian Broadcast Equipment (AWA, Pye, Phillips designed) used the word [B]Buss[B]. Early Neve consoles .. [B]Buss[B] .. In Broadcast, we adhered to mainly British and BBC standards from the 1950's up until the 1980's.
Old 5th September 2011
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmukilteo View Post
The term "buss" has always been used to refer to an electrical path.
The reason was to differentiate it's use in technical manuals and "electrical speak" away from the vehicle to avoid any confusion.
You could have a technical sentence using..." the bus has several buss bars interconnecting it's electrical systems".
In electrical terms everything has to be definitive always considering safety in words and definitions over confusion.
Over the years, people just misspell it in context!
People can't spell correctly anymore anyway....so...
So... it's spelled buss sort of for the same reason that journalists spell lede or hed as they do? (The lede is the lead paragraph of an article, spelled thus so that it can't be mistaken as part of an article. Hed is the notation for the headline.)
Old 5th September 2011
  #20
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Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Can you tell I've got nothing to do today?

From the Uniform Building Code taken from California Gov Regulations website.

Conductors and busbars on a switchboard, panelboard, or control board shall be so located as to be free from physical damage and shall be held firmly in place.

NOTE: Authority cited: Section 142.3, Labor Code. Reference: Section 142.3, Labor Code; and Section 18943(c), Health and Safety Code.


This may be a British/US language difference. Hey, it took me years to get used to pin 2 hot 'fer christ-sakes
Old 5th September 2011
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton View Post
Can you tell I've got nothing to do today?
We are being Pedants .. It's Agreed .. I think it does come down to an English/US difference ..
Old 5th September 2011
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_subsonic View Post
Lately, some newbs are arguing that it should be "Bus".
Haha, Geoff Tanner must be one of those newbs then.

I have Neve VR mk3 and 88RS manuals and a few SSL manuals in front of me that consistently use "bus" (singular) throughout ...

Neve VR: singular "bus", plural "buses"
Neve 88RS: singular "bus", plural "busses"
SSL: singular "bus", plural "busses"

@djmukilteo, I would imagine that in your example sentence the "technically correct" spelling would be "busbar" ...

Is that enough of an argument from this newb, or should I find some more manuals?

Or, we could just agree that whichever one was first "correct", and whichever one started off as "colloquial", they're both evidently in use at the moment ... and it doesn't matter because they mean exactly the same thing and everyone knows what everyone else means by either spelling ...
Old 5th September 2011
  #23
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Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

and canada weighs in on the subject ..............my mistake.....a US company with a Canadian branch. So the search is still on for Canada.

http://downloads.eatoncanada.ca/down...pabilities.pdf
Old 5th September 2011
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_subsonic View Post
Old Goat, if your copy is on hand, just go to the chapter about Mixing Consoles.
I only had time to scan it before, and didn't see anything in that section. I'll look again later--BBQ beckons.heh
Old 5th September 2011
  #25
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Evidently Harrison and API think it's "bus" as well, so the US/UK theory is breaking down ... I'm going to stop now though ... better things to do of an evening ...
Old 5th September 2011
  #26
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Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
Evidently Harrison and API think it's "bus" as well, so the US/UK theory is breaking down ... I'm going to stop now though ... better things to do of an evening ...
Tim.............hang in there! The US/UK theory is holding up well!
Canada has just joined the fray.

From the Canadian Electrical Code:

EXCERPT : of the equipment, systems or assemblies, ii. The inspector shall perform inspection of all interconnecting wiring, which includes but not limited to Buss Duct, power outlets connected to Buss Duct. The Buss Duct and any conduit that is installed on site. 4A Guideline for Photovoltaic Panels Photovoltaic


Buss is British Empire Proper English and Bus is new world common speak

Crap. so neve and ssl used bus also? This is a conundrum. How will I ever go to sleep tonight? Guess I'll just stick to buss.
Old 5th September 2011
  #27
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Tim, am I detecting a Negative and Pissy tone in your posts (??).

Perhaps you should Read the thread again. We're discussing the "Sources" and "The Historic Uses" of the word and it's context. The word [B]Buss[B] can be found in Electrical references and on UK/Australian Broadcast equipment predating the 1970's .. Possibly a bit before your time .. I also don't get why you feel the need to drop Geoff's name in here to add weight and validation to what is little more than sniping (??)

All of the consoles you've mentioned were designed/manufactured circa 1980's .. Thanks for the Factoids. But, noone here is arguing with you .. You're preaching to the choir. The conversation had a context until your arrival. Now, back to our regular program ..
Old 5th September 2011
  #28
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Sorry, I almost never mean to come across as negative and pissy! I try to leave that for the moan zone, where I'm usually just sarcastically negative ... maybe I need a permanent smiley in my sig as a hint not to take me too seriously

Anyway, apologies you felt I was sniping. You're right, it's almost 20 years before my time. I don't see how mentioning a specific qualified person's name in this context is any different from mentioning companies or publications, but never mind.

I think you're just reading me the wrong way man, but I'll try not to make it so easy
Old 5th September 2011
  #29
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......! Lol no Tim you really are a true gent!

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 5th September 2011
  #30
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Ok .. Fair Enough .. Maybe I over-reacted a bit then ..

Maybe You Demand "Intellectual Rigour" .. Admirable ..
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