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ITT: Audio Myths (post it, if its made you step back and say wtf) LETS SAVE THE KIDS! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 5th September 2011
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeen View Post
Using the same preamp for every track will have undesirable results due to a mysterious "layering effect."
Whhaaaaaaa....


So lemme get this straight, every album produced on a console sucks?!?!?! well you learn something everyday
Old 5th September 2011
  #32
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suda Badri View Post
So lemme get this straight, every album produced on a console sucks?!?!?! well you learn something everyday
I think this myth originated from Fletcher from his Mercenary days when wrote (about the Great River preamp) ..

Quote:
Working with Dan Kennedy at Great River, and the folks at Sowter transformers, we came up with a special, custom transformer specifically for the Great River MP-1NV & MP-2NV "Mercenary Editions". The idea was to build a transformer that would have all the "size" and "thunder" that you would find in the pre-amp of an original Neve™ 1073, but without the 'haze' and 'mush' that can accumulate when you run a whole bunch of tracks through a 1073.
Old 6th September 2011
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
I think this myth originated from Fletcher from his Mercenary days when wrote (about the Great River preamp) ..
Haha thats just the internet taking what someone said about a specific difference of a vs b and making it a blanket rule
Old 6th September 2011
  #34
Gear Head
 

Great gear can make a bad song a hit.

Hate to break it to ya, but you really can't polish a turd. Crap in = crap out. It's actually amazing the amount of big hits that have glaring technical flaws (I'm looking at you motown).
Old 6th September 2011
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by somniferous View Post
Great gear can make a bad song a hit.

Hate to break it to ya, but you really can't polish a turd. Crap in = crap out. It's actually amazing the amount of big hits that have glaring technical flaws (I'm looking at you motown).
Because they took the mojo over the perfection, which is how it should be. In music perfect and flawless are not synonyms.
Old 6th September 2011
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy;
cables make a difference
oops another stereophile myth
Oh, dude. Of course they make a difference. Cables of differing capacitance and inductance can be very noticably different. How did you get to be oldanalogueguy and not know this? You are yourself perpetuating a false myth.

You are are mixing up the spurious claim that reasonably priced quality cable cannot perform on par with specially engineered $100 per foot cable with the erroneous idea that there is no difference in wire.

There is ample and provable evidence that cables make a difference. But even without measuring all scientific-like, go get a $5 Hosa guitar cable and a $40 premium guitar cable and listen to how different a Strat will sound. I have no problems with which you prefer, but they will make a difference.

Yes, it seems to be true that some reasonably-priced options can be indiscernible from super-expensive cables that have been forged by Druids and blessed by a unicorn under a waxing moon. I think that myth has been busted numerous times. This is what I think you actually mean.

But it's important to also note this doesn't answer the question about which cable sound is preferable. There are times when someone likes the sound of a less expensive cable that might be a little more filtery. It's like a built in EQ.

If you want some anecdotal evidence, I was doing sound at a local church a while ago. Wasn't a setup I'd worked on before. They had four identical good quality wireless mics and receivers all going into a GL4800. I couldn't figure out why they all sounded different from each other with the board normed and the EQs bypassed. One was bright and clear, and the others degraded all the way down to sounding like one was wrapped in a pillow. I was going to send the mics out for repair, but in the meantime while rewiring the patchbay I discovered that someone had run each of the wireless receivers directly to the console with XLR cables, bypassing the normed patchbay for those four channels. Each had a different brand and length of cable: Canare, Planet Waves, Yorkville, and some other nondescript cable.

After I yanked those out and plugged the receivers into the bay with matching XLR --> TT cables, the mics all sounded exactly the same.

Incidentally, the Canare was the one that sounded right.

Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
Old 6th September 2011
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suda Badri View Post
he kept going on about how he didnt wanna lose quality of sound by using the digital fader... im trying to explain there is varying amplitude in signals all the time how is any more variation going to result in quality loss
Those are two different things. Yes, loud signals contain soft portions within the same waveform, so that busts a different myth. Digital gain changes do affect the waveform, but the added noise and distortion is so minimal that nobody could possibly hear it. My article in the current issue of GC Pro's Audio Solutions magazine proves that artifacts added by gain changes in modern digital software are typically 120 dB below the music, so nobody could possibly hear it. Further, my test did 30 cumulative gain changes in a row, not just one.

--Ethan
Old 6th September 2011
  #38
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Compression makes everything sound better.
Old 6th September 2011
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Oh, dude. Of course they make a difference. Cables of differing capacitance and inductance can be very noticably different. How did you get to be oldanalogueguy and not know this? You are yourself perpetuating a false myth.

You are are mixing up the spurious claim that reasonably priced quality cable cannot perform on par with specially engineered $100 per foot cable with the erroneous idea that there is no difference in wire.

There is ample and provable evidence that cables make a difference. But even without measuring all scientific-like, go get a $5 Hosa guitar cable and a $40 premium guitar cable and listen to how different a Strat will sound. I have no problems with which you prefer, but they will make a difference.

Yes, it seems to be true that some reasonably-priced options can be indiscernible from super-expensive cables that have been forged by Druids and blessed by a unicorn under a waxing moon. I think that myth has been busted numerous times. This is what I think you actually mean.

But it's important to also note this doesn't answer the question about which cable sound is preferable. There are times when someone likes the sound of a less expensive cable that might be a little more filtery. It's like a built in EQ.

If you want some anecdotal evidence, I was doing sound at a local church a while ago. Wasn't a setup I'd worked on before. They had four identical good quality wireless mics and receivers all going into a GL4800. I couldn't figure out why they all sounded different from each other with the board normed and the EQs bypassed. One was bright and clear, and the others degraded all the way down to sounding like one was wrapped in a pillow. I was going to send the mics out for repair, but in the meantime while rewiring the patchbay I discovered that someone had run each of the wireless receivers directly to the console with XLR cables, bypassing the normed patchbay for those four channels. Each had a different brand and length of cable: Canare, Planet Waves, Yorkville, and some other nondescript cable.

After I yanked those out and plugged the receivers into the bay with matching XLR --> TT cables, the mics all sounded exactly the same.

Incidentally, the Canare was the one that sounded right.

Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
in theory everythign makes some difference

but different is only different not better just different not worse just different.

in practice a difference that makes no difference is no difference

you have to really try hard to find a cable that is so bad that you can hear anything. and then it wont be the cable it will be teh connector.

i refer you to the blind test of a coathanger with connectors soldered on versus mogami
nobody could tell the difference

now iff you are a golden eared stereophile then you can hear the difference and it varies by teh square root of the cost of the items compared
Old 6th September 2011
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrmusic View Post
About two years ago, I had one of my misconceptions overturned in a quite dramatic fashion.

---

I had just finished a stressful marathon session: I had been up for thirty-two straight hours, and I was at that hallucinatory stage where little black orbs materialize and drift through the field of vision; during the session, the client's rhythm guitar and bass tracks were hilariously poor, and I had to re-track it all by myself; the client had a teddy bear attached to a leash and seemed to be pretending it was an actual dog, and would randomly start sobbing and yelling "sniffles, why oh why, sniffles!" At this point I thought we were finished. But as I was getting ready to leave and get something to eat (in those thirty-two hours, I had nothing to eat), a goat busted through the door.

"Bahhhhh!" the goat said, "Friday Friday Friday!"

I was a bit numb from the tiredness, and naturally, I assumed I was either dreaming or hallucinating, so I didn't react much. The client picked up my Les Paul.

"Put that down mother****er," I said, "what do you think you are doing?"

"Hakakahkahkakhakhka," he said, spinning the Les Paul in the air so rapidly it morphed into a sort of semi-opaque, whirling blade, "bwuhuhwhhhhhhhhhuuuu."

The goat spat a fireball at me and I dove to the ground.

"What the **** is going on?" I asked.

The goat marched toward me. "Bahhhh, Kickin’ in the front seat, Sittin’ in the back seat." It spat another fireball. This one hit the ceiling and incinerated some of my soundproofing.

At this point the client had transformed into a slice of pizza and was now putting pepperoni on itself. I covered my mouth in panic.

"Gotta make my mind up. Which seat can I take?"

My hot intern, Jessica, opened the door. "Check out the news!"

I turned on the TV.

"Well it looks like Hades, Lord of Darkness, has complained that something has really got his goat...Har Har har that Hades...now back to Ollie with the weather."

There was an explosion, and it kicked up a lot of dust. When the dust cleared, I saw my Neve console, like a Transformer robot in disguise, had assumed the shape of a human-sized battle robot.

"Neve Ultima, attack!" It shot a beam of lightning, which immediately destroyed the goat. I ate my client.

---

And that cleared up my misconception that Neve consoles were inferior to SSLs.
Sorry about that. Guess I should quit the tequila. Again.

BTW, not destroyed, but hungover bad enough to wish I was...
Old 6th September 2011
  #41
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
in practice a difference that makes no difference is no difference [...]

you have to really try hard to find a cable that is so bad that you can hear anything. [...]
But of course cables in audio make a practical difference. And it can be a difference that makes a difference. I didn't write that one sounded worse than another; that's a matter of opinion and purpose. It is true that cheaper cables tend to be higher capacitance, lower inductance, and sometimes higher impedance, so maybe less transparent. And you don't have to look that hard. And what about cables that are microphonic or otherwise noisy?

I gave you a case of me hearing the difference between 4 mic cables, and I'm not golden eared by a long shot.

I and many other guitarists keep different cables for different setups because sometimes you want a higher capacitance cable that rolls off the highs, or a lower cap cable that chimes a bit more. It's not a spurious claim; it's measurable, repeatable, and evident even to more callous ears. There are some differences so obvious that they don't need blind tests.

Another anecdote: I set our nine-piece band up on wired in-ear monitors using cheaper store-bought extensions. After a couple weeks I made some new extensions using better cable. I wasn't doing it for sonic reasons, just for durability. Each one of the band members asked what had changed; they could hear everything much more clearly now. They didn't know I had swapped the cables.

I'm aware of the mogami/coathanger experiment. That was a case where there was no discernible difference between those two interconnections. That test doesn't preclude differences between other cables. (I will admit that I've always been under the assumption that similar gauge connections between power amps and speakers are likely to make less difference than with low level line and mic level interconnections. No idea if this is correct.)

The mythbuster isn't that there is no difference. The argument is that you don't need to pay a zillion dollars per foot for cable when there is cable at $3-4 per foot that is indiscernible. But there is also cable that is discernibly different sounding. I'm actually surprised to hear there are people whom think otherwise.
Old 7th September 2011
  #42
Lives for gear
 

myths:

1. absolute polarity on a mono source never matters and is never audible

2. a balanced cable always has 2 signals of equal, opposite amplitude

3. equipment with balanced interconnects always provides higher quality sound than unbalanced

4. a properly grounded studio can be made with unmodifed, off-the-shelf audio cables

5. the MD421 is an outstanding microphone for toms
Old 7th September 2011
  #43
Gear Guru
 

here's a myth:

the idea that you could start a myth-busting thread and not have people use it as a jumping-off point for their prejudices and opinions.

and to promulgate MORE myths!
Old 7th September 2011
  #44
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Openshaw View Post
Compression makes everything sound better.

Correct, only analog tape can do that.

Kidding!

Maybe...


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 7th September 2011
  #45
I think if you want to save the kids, you will show them how to learn, so they can figure out the real world for themselves using their own ways to find what works for them. I think we shouldn't be telling them about myths, nor making them aware of preconceived notions which without the proper designations and understandings, leave the end user bewildered and accepting of falsehoods.
Old 7th September 2011
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
But of course cables in audio make a practical difference. And it can be a difference that makes a difference. I didn't write that one sounded worse than another; that's a matter of opinion and purpose. It is true that cheaper cables tend to be higher capacitance, lower inductance, and sometimes higher impedance, so maybe less transparent. And you don't have to look that hard. And what about cables that are microphonic or otherwise noisy?

I gave you a case of me hearing the difference between 4 mic cables, and I'm not golden eared by a long shot.

I and many other guitarists keep different cables for different setups because sometimes you want a higher capacitance cable that rolls off the highs, or a lower cap cable that chimes a bit more. It's not a spurious claim; it's measurable, repeatable, and evident even to more callous ears. There are some differences so obvious that they don't need blind tests.

Another anecdote: I set our nine-piece band up on wired in-ear monitors using cheaper store-bought extensions. After a couple weeks I made some new extensions using better cable. I wasn't doing it for sonic reasons, just for durability. Each one of the band members asked what had changed; they could hear everything much more clearly now. They didn't know I had swapped the cables.

I'm aware of the mogami/coathanger experiment. That was a case where there was no discernible difference between those two interconnections. That test doesn't preclude differences between other cables. (I will admit that I've always been under the assumption that similar gauge connections between power amps and speakers are likely to make less difference than with low level line and mic level interconnections. No idea if this is correct.)

The mythbuster isn't that there is no difference. The argument is that you don't need to pay a zillion dollars per foot for cable when there is cable at $3-4 per foot that is indiscernible. But there is also cable that is discernibly different sounding. I'm actually surprised to hear there are people whom think otherwise.
i dont know that to be true
they may have other problems but not that
bad connectors, etc. but not what you claim.

rotflmao - cables cannot be microphonic
noise - only thermal noise unless they pick up hum or rf

unless you are running miles of cable teh capacitance is negligible. and if you are then use a line driver or other technique to avoid problems.

i cant hear the difference - never did
and i used to hear the whine on ibm crts that nobody else could

can you hear the difference if you use green magic markers on your cds? if you cryogenically treat your cables? any of the other stereophile myths?
Old 7th September 2011
  #47
Gear Nut
 

Here's one that bothers me. The myth that just because someone is famous, that means they must extremely talented or skilled. One thing that many people fail to think about when they see a famous artist, or one who has a platinum album is.. how much money did it cost to MAKE them that famous in the first place, or to MAKE their album go platinum...
I guess to sum it up, its the myth that the cream always rises to the top.
Old 7th September 2011
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
i dont know that to be true
they may have other problems but not that
bad connectors, etc. but not what you claim.

rotflmao - cables cannot be microphonic
noise - only thermal noise unless they pick up hum or rf

unless you are running miles of cable teh capacitance is negligible. and if you are then use a line driver or other technique to avoid problems.

i cant hear the difference - never did
and i used to hear the whine on ibm crts that nobody else could

can you hear the difference if you use green magic markers on your cds? if you cryogenically treat your cables? any of the other stereophile myths?
I'm sorry, Oldanalogguy, but in this case you're objectively wrong. I bought a wiring kit using Canare GS6 because I heard it was really good cable. Wired up my pedalboard with it and it sounded VERY different from how it sounded before. Double checked that the cables were built properly and that wasn't a problem. Decided to use a bypass looper with 5 loops to see if I could figure out what was going on. I had:

1. Interconnect built with Quantum Oxygen Free
2. George L's solderless
3. Canare GS6 soldered
4. Planet Waves solderless
5. Hosa molded plastic
6. A 6 foot, studio quality interconnect with Neutrik ends.

The Quantum and the Canare noticeably cut treble. It was not subtle, it was not something I needed golden ears to hear, it was like a blanket over the amp. The George L was really bright and everything else was in the middle. Put a buffer in front of the signal (decoupling the guitar pickups from the low pass filter formed by the capacitance of the interconnect) and the problem went away.

Now, guitar pickups are a special case, because of the resonant filter effect, but it's not true that interconnects make NO difference.
Old 7th September 2011
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbob1 View Post
I'm sorry, Oldanalogguy, but in this case you're objectively wrong. I bought a wiring kit using Canare GS6 because I heard it was really good cable. Wired up my pedalboard with it and it sounded VERY different from how it sounded before. Double checked that the cables were built properly and that wasn't a problem. Decided to use a bypass looper with 5 loops to see if I could figure out what was going on. I had:

1. Interconnect built with Quantum Oxygen Free
2. George L's solderless
3. Canare GS6 soldered
4. Planet Waves solderless
5. Hosa molded plastic
6. A 6 foot, studio quality interconnect with Neutrik ends.

The Quantum and the Canare noticeably cut treble. It was not subtle, it was not something I needed golden ears to hear, it was like a blanket over the amp. The George L was really bright and everything else was in the middle. Put a buffer in front of the signal (decoupling the guitar pickups from the low pass filter formed by the capacitance of the interconnect) and the problem went away.

Now, guitar pickups are a special case, because of the resonant filter effect, but it's not true that interconnects make NO difference.
objectively i am right
subjectively you are fooling yourself
it sounds better only because you bought it
and you know you are using it

let me give you a pop quiz triple blind test
and you wont pick it out of the others reliably
Old 7th September 2011
  #50
Better yet, put some money on it. That always concentrates the mind.
Old 7th September 2011
  #51
Lives for gear
How about a fact instead of a myth:

Gearslutz is 95% wannabees who parrot the same things over and over again until what they have to say becomes "truth." In reality, many of the things I learned here when I was new turned out to be completely opposite of what was the right thing to do. I wonder sometimes if I'd have been better off if I'd never found this place.

The best advice I can give is to stop reading and just start experimenting. There are no shortcuts- Whether someone tells you how to do something or not, you're going to have to figure it out on your own. Often times it takes MORE time to learn something someone elses WRONG way, realize its the wrong way, and reteach yourself, rather than just teaching yourself from the beginning. Learn the technical aspects of audio here (i.e. how a compressor works, how levels matter in audio, the physics of sound, etc.) and move on. Don't let anyone tell you how to EQ something, or compress something with this attack and that release, or how much reverb to add. Your ears have been listening to music your whole life. They know what is right. You just have to trust them.

One myth:

You have to treat your room to make great music. Only partially true. Don't bother treating your room until you can make your music sound close to how real records sound in that room. If your music sounds like crap, and that Chris Lord-Alge record still sounds awesome even in your ****ty 10x10 room, you've got work to do before you worry about translation to other listening environments. You haven't even gotten it right in the environment you're in. People treat their rooms most of the time because it makes them feel like a bigshot "official studio owner"- often before they've gotten it right in the space they're in.
Old 7th September 2011
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasnub View Post
One myth:

You have to treat your room to make great music. Only partially true. Don't bother treating your room until you can make your music sound close to how real records sound in that room. If your music sounds like crap, and that Chris Lord-Alge record still sounds awesome even in your ****ty 10x10 room, you've got work to do before you worry about translation to other listening environments. You haven't even gotten it right in the environment you're in. People treat their rooms most of the time because it makes them feel like a bigshot "official studio owner"- often before they've gotten it right in the space they're in.
I would disagree with this one. Not that you can't make good music without doing it. But it's one of the more scientifically sound scenarios out there, and people treat their rooms because it's the right thing to do. All things considered, it's one of the biggest bang for the buck things you can actually spend bucks on in the average home studio (i.e. little room with bad bass response and also small enough to have serious imaging problems due to mid/high frequency reflections coming back with a lot of energy.)
Old 7th September 2011
  #53
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myths:

-there is a significant difference in "sound quality" between DAWs (not speaking of plug-ins here, just the raw track/bus/mixer structures of the DAWs)

-most native plug-ins (those that ship with DAWs) are not good enough for the making of good-sounding mixes

-there is no cost or downside to using cracked plug-ins and software

-separate word clock generators are useful for something other than sync

-other than digital overs, there's much to worry about concerning absolute digital audio levels

-the best thing that software plug-ins can do is to emulate analog gear

-the best recordings have the lowest noise levels

-you can get real analog warmth out of an all-digital mix environment

The last one is arguable I guess but I haven't heard anything yet that convinces me that it's not a myth.


-synthoid
Old 7th September 2011
  #54
Gear Maniac
 

Another myth:

You need 15000€ worth converters to get better sound overall (recording, mixes, etc.)!!!
Old 7th September 2011
  #55
R3k
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"Golden Ears"
Old 7th September 2011
  #56
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasnub View Post

One myth:

You have to treat your room to make great music. Only partially true. Don't bother treating your room until you can make your music sound close to how real records sound in that room. If your music sounds like crap, and that Chris Lord-Alge record still sounds awesome even in your ****ty 10x10 room, you've got work to do before you worry about translation to other listening environments. You haven't even gotten it right in the environment you're in. People treat their rooms most of the time because it makes them feel like a bigshot "official studio owner"- often before they've gotten it right in the space they're in.
Well - as long as we recognise the distinction between a capable arrangement/performance and the technical sonics of the mix, then its somewhat true. BUT it's extremely difficult to do a frequency balanced (and time domain) "right" mix in a room not designed for the purpose. The reason CLAs mix sounds okay in the poopy 10x10 room is precisely because of him and the room he did it in.
Old 7th September 2011
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcoyot View Post
Here's one that bothers me. The myth that just because someone is famous, that means they must extremely talented or skilled. One thing that many people fail to think about when they see a famous artist, or one who has a platinum album is.. how much money did it cost to MAKE them that famous in the first place, or to MAKE their album go platinum...
I guess to sum it up, its the myth that the cream always rises to the top.
I know what you mean. I do far better than my abilities!!
Old 7th September 2011
  #58
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filipv's Avatar
24 bit sounding better than 16 bit
Old 7th September 2011
  #59
1. Waves E channel and real SSL E channel sound exactly the same
2.If you buy Tony Maserati and CLA Waves signature plugins you gonna get get THAT sound
3.If you graduate from some school for engineers you have better prospect of finding a real job in a real studio
4.Summing is really important
5.Macs are much better than PC for audio
6.ITB mixes sound one-dimensional and don't sound as good as OTB because of bad gain staging ITB
7.Quality of my mixes vastly improved since i turned down faders and put trim plugin on every channel
8.Native PT and TDM PT are the same thing only TDM costs more
9.Digital EQ plugins all sound very different from manufacturer to manufacturer
10.I don't choose plugins based on the way they look
11.You can get same results ITB like OTB, you just need to learn how
12.It's always better to cut with EQ instead of boost

heh
Old 7th September 2011
  #60
007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filipv View Post
24 bit sounding better than 16 bit
Recording at 24 bit does sound better.
This is a myth to you?
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