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Pro Tools HD Native vs Pro Tools TDM.....which one sounds Better??
Old 10th August 2011 | Show parent
  #91
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KevWind's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixboy bob View Post
PT LE and PT 9HD Native software have 32-bit floating mixers and processing.

BUT...

PT HD Native... as in the $3500 PCIe card... has a 64-bit float mixer with 32-bit processing. (Avid | Specifications)

Having worked on 64-bit digital consoles and knowing how solid the imaging is and extended the top and bottom are, I am very excited to test an HD Native card because the difference could likely be huge.

There is so much confusion about the difference between Native with the card and without the card... They are not at all the same engine.

Happy mixing, everyone!

Rob Burrell
aka mixboy
I shouldn't think there would be that much confusion ? Because PT9 native is just that. Where as to be HD Native it has to be run through the card and has a 64 bit mixer - ergo there is no HD Native without the card to be confused about, or am I missing something ?
Old 10th August 2011 | Show parent
  #92
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It seems there's a little more going on in the card in conjunction with the interface.

For example, having the card and an HD interface gives you a few more features like input monitoring, destructive punch, AFL/PFL.

A friend of mine observed that when the card was installed, but no interface was connected to it, he could still use the software, but those few features were not available. For instance, the input monitoring button on the tracks was gone.

So the presence of the card and interface seems to unlock certain features.

It could be that this is also how the 64 bit mixing is applied - not that it's processed on the card, but that the presence of the card and interface makes it available in the software.

This is assuming that regular protools is still at 32 bit floating. If, as Paterno was told, it's all at 64 bit, then none of this would matter.

As I mentioned earlier, if it's all gone to 64 bit floating, I don't know why Avid hasn't talked it up for regular Protools and not just HD Native.
Old 10th August 2011
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
heh heh Let me see what I can do about that.......heh



That's a given IMO. I wasn't talking about guys just out of recording school who are ready to take on the world with no experience. I'm talking about guys who have been educated from the school of hard knocks. Guys with experience who know what SOUNDS right to their ears and could give a flip about science if it begins to interfere with their creative juices.



No, but having a myopic focus on it (like MANY here on GS) is a sure fire way to make sure you keep doing the same thing over and over, avoiding "mistakes" that would nurture your creative spirit - essentially deflating your creativity.



PM - why are you trying to capsize GS?? Jules needs the gig. If we put that into practice, GS goes down to 10 posts a day and looses marketshare..... heh



Today, yes. In a world with only 3 dimensions, yes. In a world with limited monitoring options. Yes! But.......tomorrow, or next year.....who knows. Science advances and often proves older theories / FACTS wrong. I suspect that if we're all around in 20 years, we'll all have a few good laughs about what we took as gospel - what was right, what was wrong.

In the meantime, I will not doubt my ears if they KEEP telling me something that my logic or someone on the internet says is wrong. To do so is to betray the creative spirit that drives me. It matters not if the creative muse is right or wrong, what matters is keeping it nurtured, healthy and prolific. If you've "got it" time, clients, credits, money, the judgement of your peers and ultimately success will follow. No testing needed.

If not....well, doing nulling tests won't help.

I wholeheartedly suggest putting your (our) energies into something that will make the world a better place - MUSIC! Nulling tests, scientific data, and doing things "right" gains us precious little ground in an mp3 world.



So, for those convinced of their "better" DAW, MORE POWER TO YOU!!!!!!!

PS - FYI, sometimes I CHOOSE to do things wrong. Just for the hell of it. And sometimes.............I like it. heh
Tell'em bill!


Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 10th August 2011 | Show parent
  #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
It seems there's a little more going on in the card in conjunction with the interface.

For example, having the card and an HD interface gives you a few more features like input monitoring, destructive punch, AFL/PFL.

A friend of mine observed that when the card was installed, but no interface was connected to it, he could still use the software, but those few features were not available. For instance, the input monitoring button on the tracks was gone.

So the presence of the card and interface seems to unlock certain features.
Well, of course it does. That's the whole point of HD Native. When the interface isn't connected, you're running regular PT9 + CPTK - it's exactly the same code (hence the reason there's only one installer).


Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
It could be that this is also how the 64 bit mixing is applied - not that it's processed on the card, but that the presence of the card and interface makes it available in the software.

This is assuming that regular protools is still at 32 bit floating. If, as Paterno was told, it's all at 64 bit, then none of this would matter.

As I mentioned earlier, if it's all gone to 64 bit floating, I don't know why Avid hasn't talked it up for regular Protools and not just HD Native.
Can't answer this bit I'm afraid!
Old 10th August 2011 | Show parent
  #95
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post

As I mentioned earlier, if it's all gone to 64 bit floating, I don't know why Avid hasn't talked it up for regular Protools and not just HD Native.
I only see a one line blurb in the marketing materials. Nothing in the manual that I saw. Where is the 64bit aspect of HD Native discussed in detail? I looked at a few DUC threads and they don't seem to respond to direct questions about the 64bit mixer resolution.
Old 11th August 2011 | Show parent
  #96
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On the web page, it mentions it in the overview, then if you click on "specifications", it's listed again.

Also, when it was first introduced, a couple of the guys from Avid were posting on here and giving info, and they mentioned it as well, though I can't seem to find those particular threads.

There's no sources that have gone into detail about it that I know of, but it seems to have been mentioned enough times.
Old 11th August 2011 | Show parent
  #97
Deleted 1a30a04
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
On the web page, it mentions it in the overview, then if you click on "specifications", it's listed again.

Also, when it was first introduced, a couple of the guys from Avid were posting on here and giving info, and they mentioned it as well, though I can't seem to find those particular threads.

There's no sources that have gone into detail about it that I know of, but it seems to have been mentioned enough times.
Retailers like Sweetwater have some information on their websites that help
illuminate the differences / specs of the various PT platforms.
Old 11th August 2011
  #98
Gear Head
 

Having access to tdm plugins, HEAT, and more than 64 io makes tdm hd systems still the ideal in pro rooms. We couldn't run our studio on native simply due to the io limitations. On top of that Heat really sounds great and tdm plugins still have some value in my opinion.
Old 11th August 2011 | Show parent
  #99
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
On the web page, it mentions it in the overview, then if you click on "specifications", it's listed again.

Also, when it was first introduced, a couple of the guys from Avid were posting on here and giving info, and they mentioned it as well, though I can't seem to find those particular threads.

There's no sources that have gone into detail about it that I know of, but it seems to have been mentioned enough times.
I am still waiting to hear back but so far Avid engineering has told me:

HD TDM = DSP Mixer

Any other deck= Host Mixer
Old 11th August 2011 | Show parent
  #100
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Nick Morris's Avatar
Thats exactly what I have been told also. I am eager to hear this difference that people are talking about. A bit skeptical of there being one.
Old 12th August 2011 | Show parent
  #101
M2E
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M2E's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainted Blue View Post
Having access to tdm plugins, HEAT, and more than 64 io makes tdm hd systems still the ideal in pro rooms. We couldn't run our studio on native simply due to the io limitations. On top of that Heat really sounds great and tdm plugins still have some value in my opinion.
This is why I can't move as well. The i/o's and Heat.
Heat i really good. I'm sure they will bring it out on RTAS in about 4 to 5 years.
The sound is still incredible to me.

Thanx

Marc
Old 12th August 2011 | Show parent
  #102
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paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
Thats exactly what I have been told also. I am eager to hear this difference that people are talking about. A bit skeptical of there being one.
What makes you skeptical? Different implementations yield different results -- just like with analog gear. Floating point vs fixed point math. They even 'feel' different to work on -- if you've spent a lot of time on TDM, the Native engine reacts a bit differently.

John
Old 12th August 2011 | Show parent
  #103
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drew's Avatar
I've heard back from Avid. HD Native uses the Host Mixer just as "regular" Pro Tools does when you're using the built in sound or 3rd party. It uses 64bit summing math for the mix buss and 32 float for processing.
Old 15th August 2011 | Show parent
  #104
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drew's Avatar
Interesting, I would have thought this would garner more discussion.

So what is Frank hearing? Converters and clocking?
Old 15th August 2011 | Show parent
  #105
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Nick Morris's Avatar
Just as I thought.
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