The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
versatile mics. please advise me.
Old 9th July 2011
  #1
Gear Head
 

versatile mics. please advise me.

Hey! So basically stop me blowing money on rubbish mics!

I'm setting up home studio, Essentially need to record drums, guitar, singists, a few acoustic instruments.
As we are on a budget, we are looking for good multi purpouse choices.

We will not be doing any high intensity rock. A lot of it will be singer songwriter, acoustic, almost vintagy lofi sort of sound.

So I'm thinking:

Cascade Fatheads II: Drum overheads, brass, violin, guitar cabs, room mics.

SM57: snare, hihats, guitar cabs.


Are they reasonable choices?
What would you put on bass drum? I was wondering about a LDC, that could also do vocals. any thoughts on a suitable mic for that? or just go with a dedicated kik mic?
can a kik mic record anything else, or just kiks?
Old 9th July 2011
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Ok, I'll play....

What's your budget? Have you got any preamps yet, if so what are they? Room treated yet?

Old 9th July 2011
  #3
Gear Head
 

Cheers!

right, budget is limited, but will constantly be upgrading. Preamps are the standard inbuilt on the motu 8pre ones. going into a mac. room will be made as dead as humanly possible, but I think it's safe to say we want to take that out the equation as far as possible.

starting budget for mics is around £600, but for that i'm after what I have mentioned above (2 ribbons and an SM57)

leaving about 200 for some sort of bass drum or vox+bass drum mic.
Old 9th July 2011
  #4
I like the CAD Equitek e100s.

-Versitile
-quiet
-sounds good most of the time
-has a pad so you can track drums and cabs with it
-$500
Old 9th July 2011
  #5
Lives for gear
 
evangelista's Avatar
 

The Fatheads don't match well with the MOTU pres, IMO - noise city. I'd go for higher output mics as a start, and upgrade pres later to accommodate different mics.

If your room is "dead" as you describe, you can get away with LDCs. AT2035, CAD M179s, etc. will fit your budget.

An SM57 is always good to have. I'd get an RE20 for kick/bass/vox.
Old 9th July 2011
  #6
Lives for gear
 
KRStudio's Avatar
 

Get the CAD M179's. They seem to work well on damn near anything.
Old 9th July 2011
  #7
Gear Head
 

damn, my heart was somewhat set on the fatheads! however I will listen to your experience! I will look into the CAD and AT2035's

RE20 is well out of budget unfortunately... I was thinking something like the AKG D112, but less specialised? does such a thing exist?!
Old 9th July 2011
  #8
Here for the gear
 

If you decide on the fatheads, make sure you go with the Lundahl transformer model. The stock transformer is garbage. And you'll need a decent pre with enough gain to handle a ribbon. The Focusrite ISA One or the True Systems P-Solo-Ribbon should both work well.
Old 9th July 2011
  #9
Gear Head
 

unfortunately in the first instance there isn't enough money to buy 2 £500+ preamps to justify using ribbons... the pre's would be worth more than the mics! in that case I will just move to LDC's...

So I'm after 2 LDC's that would work with the motu pres, for £350 ($560) for the pair... and a kik mic that isn't just a kik mic...


man all this mic stuff take some time to get your head around!
Old 9th July 2011
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Ok, one vote for two Cad M179's and a Beyer M88 second hand. M88 does kick and also vocals and most other things etc....

However, you could also do worse than having a look at Little Blondies (do a search, great sdc's for almost nothing!!) and getting an Altec 1678 off ebay.com, mod it, and end up with 8 sweet transformer pres for about 100 dollars...... like so:

Tape Op Message Board :: View topic - altec 1678c mod..direct out/gain control..AUDIO SAMPLES!

Those would help you with an authentic 'singer songwriter vintage lo-fi sort of sound' as you put it.....as the MOTU pres won't.
Old 10th July 2011
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRStudio View Post
Get the CAD M179's. They seem to work well on damn near anything.
These. Add in a decent dynamic and you have a solid mic locker.
Old 10th July 2011
  #12
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Ok, one vote for two Cad M179's and a Beyer M88 second hand. M88 does kick and also vocals and most other things etc....

However, you could also do worse than having a look at Little Blondies (do a search, great sdc's for almost nothing!!) and getting an Altec 1678 off ebay.com, mod it, and end up with 8 sweet transformer pres for about 100 dollars...... like so:

Tape Op Message Board :: View topic - altec 1678c mod..direct out/gain control..AUDIO SAMPLES!

Those would help you with an authentic 'singer songwriter vintage lo-fi sort of sound' as you put it.....as the MOTU pres won't.
Cool, I will look into it.

I was under the impression the motu 8pre had good pre-amps onboard? Have I miss understood something? or is good all subjective?
Old 10th July 2011
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benjisonfire View Post
Cool, I will look into it.

I was under the impression the motu 8pre had good pre-amps onboard? Have I miss understood something? or is good all subjective?
They're probably servicable, not sure how 'good' as its definitely subjective, but more to the point built in interface pres are rarely vibey in a way that would be useful to what you say you want to do, at best good/great in a clean/modern way.
Old 10th July 2011
  #14
Gear Head
 

hum, I see!

Another newb question for you, are mics like the Rode NT5, and other such pencil designs no good for vox? will they only do drums and guitars? Would a pair of NT5's be better than a pair of the CAD179?

or will the CAD offer more? I'm guessing 2 LDC's could nicely record some vox and acoustic guitar?
Old 10th July 2011
  #15
Lives for gear
 

I think pencil mics get a bad press on vocals. Believe it or not, they can sometimes sound warmer, fatter and better all round than an expensive large-diaphragm tube mic.

But the top-end detail they provide can sound harsh on a vocalist.
I imagine the Rode NT5 wouldn't be a great contender for a vocal mic, as I've found it to be not as smooth as the AKG C451B. But it might work, paradoxically, surprisingly well on a singer who doesn't sing way up high: on someone like Barry White. As Bob Ohlsson is fond of pointing out: Motown used KM84s on vocals (a Neumann SDC).

Anyway, I'd recommend the C414BXLS (or alternatively a C414BULS secondhand if you can find one). It's a large diaphragm condenser, which is a studio workhorse for good reason. I find it works well as a vocal mic in either omni or wide-cardioid mode. I've used it once or twice on kick or snare in narrow cardioid mode. Good on guitar in omni mode (even better paired with an SDC). People use them as drum overheads, or room ambience mics.
Old 10th July 2011
  #16
Lives for gear
 

****, I just noticed you're in London. Over here the C414Bs are so much more expensive than in the US: here they're an expensive mic, in the US they're pretty reasonable.

A Rode NT1 is a decent vocal LDC. They crop up on eBay and gumtree a lot. Alternatively one of the Audio Technica AT20 range. Guess you can't stretch to an AT4047? I think you're thinking along the right lines about doubling up use of an LDC on kickdrum. A lot more mics work on kickdrum than are given credit for.

I've heard good things about Thomann's SDCs, though never used one. I suspect there's a certain amount of gear snobbery towards their stuff.
Old 10th July 2011
  #17
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Wasn't most of the Motown stuff KM86's? Same capsules, mind....

The Little Blondies are a very sweet sound, might work for vocals too, go check the Little Blondie thread. I think some have tried on vocals and liked, plus there are some nice recordings to show what they can do.

The thing with the CAD's though is they are VERY quiet and you will get very clean recordings even of soft stuff. Plus they have lots of pattern choice which other than giving you general flexibility also gives you M/S micing possibilities.....a nice thing. And Bluemlein......also a nice thing.....

But for cheap sdc's I'd look at Blondies or Line Audio CM3's.
Old 10th July 2011
  #18
Gear Head
 

the T.Bone range have caught my eye too now! I like the look of the SCT800 and the retro tube III is within budget. retro tube II may be pushing it a bit, but got a alright review on SOS.

any thoughts on using their stuff as overheads? worries me there is no published frequency chart.
Old 10th July 2011
  #19
Gear Head
 

oh but the little blondies I can't find any prices? where how would I get them?
Old 10th July 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
 

I know nothing about the Little Blondies other than that everyone raves about them, and that there's a long waiting list. All handmade by one person, I think...
Old 10th July 2011
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benjisonfire View Post
the T.Bone range have caught my eye too now! I like the look of the SCT800 and the retro tube III is within budget. retro tube II may be pushing it a bit, but got a alright review on SOS.

any thoughts on using their stuff as overheads? worries me there is no published frequency chart.
have you listened to the sound samples? I liked the sound of the black T-Bone LDC, can't remember which one it was. To my ears it sounded a bit smoother than the others. Though I did note to myself that none of the T-Bone sound samples had vocalists singing high notes loudly (the acid test for the harshness of a mic). I might give the female soul vocal samples a re-listen. The only reason I listened in the first place was because Michael Joly has started modding them. Which makes a T-Bone mic a sort of stepping-stone investment.
Old 10th July 2011
  #22
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

pm sahiaman about the Blondies, he makes them by hand. He's a busy chap, but very decent indeed. Can't remember what I payed for my pair but suffice to say it's ridiculously cheap, proper toy price for seriously good sounding mics.
Old 10th July 2011
  #23
Gear Head
 

yeah, I have listened to the samples, but in all honesty I'm still so new to all of this, with such little experience with different mics that I'm not 100% on what to be listening for. also none of the LDC's have and samples as an overhead...

oh and I have just discovered a mate of mine has the SE2200a so gona whack it in front of the bass drum and see what It can do.

the max SPL's on them things don't go so high though, so sort of wondering maybe I need to go dynamic? I don't hit particularly hard, but don't wan't to be worrying about it all the time.
Old 10th July 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjisonfire View Post
I was wondering about a LDC, that could also do vocals. any thoughts on a suitable mic for that?
The Shure KSM series offers some pretty versatile LDC choices at a decent price point.

I sang through a KSM32 for a long time while using it to catch my acoustic guitars and amps as well.
Old 10th July 2011
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
Rusted Vacuum's Avatar
 

If you are on a bodget try the MXL 604, for snare, HH, OH, is a cheap mic very underated, serch here in gearsluts, and you´ll find some good threds about it. Also there is the oktava mod for it, and after that, WOW!!!!!!! An afordable KM84....
Old 10th July 2011
  #26
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlightened Hand View Post
I like the CAD Equitek e100s.

-Versitile
-quiet
-sounds good most of the time
-has a pad so you can track drums and cabs with it
-$500
Damn, it isn't just me then. I've been running it through a Daking Mic Pre One and Rane MS1S for vocals, acoustic and clean electric guitars and it never sounds bad.
Old 10th July 2011
  #27
Lives for gear
 
mcgruff's Avatar
 

ADK A6
Old 10th July 2011
  #28
Lives for gear
 
VT-MHE's Avatar
Of course u87
Old 10th July 2011
  #29
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
I'm telling you...singer songwriter fare is what I do.

Sm7b. (vocals/amps)
Pair of Sm81s. (piano/acGtr/Leslie/percussion)
Royer 121. (amps/piano)

In fact, I literally (now) only have a few more mics. I lucked out and found a good vintage UM70 and had Tracy Korby clean it up for me...I do prefer that for vocals, but only by a BIT. I have a vintage 414eb that I use sometimes for chick singers OR for thin ac gtrs. I have an old 421 that I use whenever I need some kind of lead to jump out...or I did a very "rock" overdriven leslie cut with it.

I say why reinvent the wheel? For drums, you could go 81s for overheads...57 (or sm7 w/ mid boost) on snare...421s or e906s for toms...Beyer M88 for kick...if you bite for a Royer, you can put it out front of the kick for a big "poof" (just put a windscreen on it).

Turn around and marry that to an ISA428(overhead+kick)+3124(toms+snare+amp), and an LA610 or Great River-something big and phat for vocals/bass DI. Done. Old school singer songwriter fare handled.

Here's what no one selling gear wants you to know--there's nothing new in the world of analog gear that's better than older designs. They release a new LDC every 2 months and hype it because it's NOW going to equal boutique or vintage designs...they don't. So, they release another. That's why I say if you START with the solid old school, you put the burden on them to produce something that's actually BETTER to get your money moving forward.
Old 22nd July 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
 
jpgerard's Avatar
Here's a tip: get yourself some good condition RE15's. They will give a honest image of whatever is in front of them and won't cost you much. Otherwise, the Line Audio CM3 can't be beat as an all-round condenser. Yes, it's a a pencil mic but it works wonders on vocals with a good popfilter or the included windshiedl (but then a bit muffled for my taste). It can take 130 dBs so you can use it on drums and guitar amps... I saw a recommendation for the ADK A6 and I agree, it's a great all rounder too.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump