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Producing techno/trance
Old 12th March 2006
  #1
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s0nguy's Avatar
 

Producing techno/trance

All,

My brother wants to start exploring his musical side... he wants to write and produce techno and trance...along the lines of DJ Tiesto and Paul Van Dyk.

I dont know what to tell him he needs... I use ProTools HD and he would like to start with ProTools Le but I dont think this is the best solution for his style of music.

He does not have a Mac.

Thanks,
S0nguy
Old 12th March 2006
  #2
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djui5's Avatar
 

Why don't you ask them?

http://www.myspace.com/tiesto

http://www.myspace.com/paulvandyk


If they don't reply, there should either be some info on their myspace profile, or maybe some on their web-site.

Oberheim and Waldorf's are killer for dance music.
Old 12th March 2006
  #3
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octatonic's Avatar
Get him to buy a copy of Live.
Old 13th March 2006
  #4
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u b k's Avatar
 

for a total beginner i'd recommend Reason. he'll have his first song in a week with little pain or learning curve.

eventually, he'll either get bored and move on to collecting shells, or he'll move up to something more serious like cubase, which can integrate with reason and go beyond as well.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 13th March 2006
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

I'd say go with Logic. Even if it has a hard learning curve. It's serious stuff (assuming the guy is serious also..).
Logic, even the latest 5.5 PC version (you say he doesn't have a MAC), is a popular choice for this type of music. I preffer it to my Cubase SX, when doing so (keeping CUbase only for pop-dance stuff, where editing loads of vocal tracks is a must..). THe virtual instruments in Logic sound very "pro", and the effects have that kind of sound that you hear on trance tracks.

Also - there are a few synths that "made up" the trance sound - Virus, Nordlead, even Waldorf Q - for the most crazy distorsions.. He'll have to learn all the tricks when laying down synth parts - there are a lot of patterns for that.

All that, with an expressive vocalist, and he's the new Van Burren.. .
Old 13th March 2006
  #6
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nadsatrebel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0nguy
All,

My brother wants to start exploring his musical side... he wants to write and produce techno and trance...along the lines of DJ Tiesto and Paul Van Dyk.

I dont know what to tell him he needs... I use ProTools HD and he would like to start with ProTools Le but I dont think this is the best solution for his style of music.

He does not have a Mac.

Thanks,
S0nguy
Sony's Acid is killer for this. It has serious editing tools anyone (even a newbie) can use. Have him download the trail and see if he likes it.
Old 13th March 2006
  #7
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s0nguy's Avatar
 

thanks to all who responded.... 4 responses and 4 different recommendations!



-s0nguy
Old 13th March 2006
  #8
I used Cubase, Protools and now Logic. Also I know Reason and Live.

Cubase or Logic is only a matter of taste. You can do hell of things with them. He should have a look at them and choose himself which one looks (yes only the look!!!) the best for him. You get a lot of good plugins with them. In fact you get the same like with reason but you have way more possibilities.

Protools is not reasonable for a beginner anyway.

Live is nice for live applications and you can do some cool stuff with it. But I'd rather look at it as an instrument you bind in Cubase/Logic.

The same goes for Reason. But this is the last software I'd recommend to anybody. A lot of so called "producers" bring their Reason songs to my plave to be mixed. And most of the times I have that feeling, that these songs they always lack of something. Reason seems to pretend to the user, that he doesn't need more to produce high quality dance music, which is very dangerous.
Old 13th March 2006
  #9
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Most guys doing these styles now days do use Reason.
Old 13th March 2006
  #10
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I'd say most pro trance producers (especially along the lines of PVD and Tiesto etc.) use Logic or Cubase. There are some using reason but they're records tend to sound weaker. I'd recommend Logic or Cubase or maybe Live.

Having said that you can use what you're comfortable with but something like Logic gives you the tools you need and doesn't impose limits on how you can use them in the way that something like reason can...
Old 13th March 2006
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopamine
Most guys doing these styles now days do use Reason.
I'd just say the opposite. At least the pros I know. We should distiniguish here between an instrument which Reason and Logic/Cubase are, composing and mixing tool which only Logic/Cubase are.

Reason will never give you the comprehensive tools and professional possibilities for mixing. But it is a good instrument. I'd also say that composing with Reason doesn't feature enough.

But that depends all on your personal requirements and claims.
Old 13th March 2006
  #12
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this was copied from djrap's site....it's her studio..


"DJ Rap : "What Turns Me On In The Studio..."

Hardware :

* Powermac G5 - Fully loaded (of course) kicks some serious ass.
* 23" Plasma Screen - Apple rules. What a difference a huge screen makes!
* G4 laptop
* 2 x Pioneer CDJ-1000
* 2 x Technics SL1200s Turntables
* Smart Audio Speakers - Custom built.
* Yamaha NS10 monitors
* M-Audio Studiophile speakers
* M-Audio Oxygen Controller
* Firewire 410
* Yamaha Motif
* Pioneer 600 mixer

Software :

* Logic 7 - In my opinion the best sequencer.
* Atmosphere
* Stylus
* Trilogy
* Logic plugins - Awesome!!!
* Final Scratch.
* Tractor FS - Native Instruments are so cool and so are their plug-ins!

There is some stuff missing, well this is all I could replace after my whole studio was stolen...still not too shabby."
Old 13th March 2006
  #13
reason is good to lay down ideas quickly and then take them to another program but the sound is too small and boxy for me to take it seriously, I think it's a cool program but the sound needs to improve ...

tell your brother to get an access virus if he's serious about producing electronic stuff, right out of the box it's pretty cool, and when you tweak it it's even better, I have a bunch of synths but the virus always makes to the final mixes
Old 13th March 2006
  #14
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For maximum bang for buck, especially in dance/trance, you can't ignore PC VST instruments and effects. Many of the plugins are free, and can be more exciting than the expensive stuff with iLock etc.

Logic on PC is a dead end street. I switched to Cubase SX with zero regret.

Just make sure you can run PC VST instruments and effects, with full plugin delay compensation.

Or if you are fashion consicious technophobe with deep pockets, go with Logic on a Mac and have somebody set it up for you.
Old 13th March 2006
  #15
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u b k's Avatar
 

guys, you're all coming at this from the angle of seasoned producers. i'm standing by the recommendation for reason.

he's a *total beginner*, never written a song or built an arrangement in his life, interested in exploring the art of music, not the craft of recording... let him crawl before making him run. soundtrack, acid, reason... these are tools that take a while to outgrow when you're starting from absolute zero, give results that only a snobbish pro (such as myself) would find fault with, and they make the process a lot more fun, immediately.

if you stick a total newbie on cubase, he'll be spending the vast majority of his time and brainpower figuring out how to record a basic midi track, and posting here asking things like "what's an aux?" and "what's a buffer?"

the first rule of sales is 'know your customer's needs.' i say let him get straight to the business of making songs so he can explore the process of making music rather than engineering on a daw, and if and when he decides to pursue it more seriously he can upgrade to the bigger tools as his needs demand.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 13th March 2006
  #16
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

reason to start... get his feet wet and such.
good for instant gratification and learning the ropes.
Old 14th March 2006
  #17
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Tom Sigmond's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b i k
guys, you're all coming at this from the angle of seasoned producers. i'm standing by the recommendation for reason.

he's a *total beginner*, never written a song or built an arrangement in his life, interested in exploring the art of music, not the craft of recording... let him crawl before making him run. soundtrack, acid, reason... these are tools that take a while to outgrow when you're starting from absolute zero, give results that only a snobbish pro (such as myself) would find fault with, and they make the process a lot more fun, immediately.

if you stick a total newbie on cubase, he'll be spending the vast majority of his time and brainpower figuring out how to record a basic midi track, and posting here asking things like "what's an aux?" and "what's a buffer?"

the first rule of sales is 'know your customer's needs.' i say let him get straight to the business of making songs so he can explore the process of making music rather than engineering on a daw, and if and when he decides to pursue it more seriously he can upgrade to the bigger tools as his needs demand.


gregoire
del ubik



Good point.

But, he has to start somewhere and my recommandation would be a program
which has the least learning curve but still can bring him everywhere from starting simple to complex.
Its better to choose the right programm from the beginning then trying and learning(which costs a lot of time and is counter productive) several programs
till he finds the one he feels comfortable with.

I'm a Cubase user from start (and also a Techno/Trance producer) and are still
very happy with it.
Most of the serious proffesionals in this genre use Logic or Cubase.
A lot of newbies (young people) in the genre starting with Reason becuasse of
the ' all in' package, the low price and becausse its most of the time the first music program they see becausse its populair (and copiet very often)
But, like said here before, it sounds very flat.

I would recommend him Logic or Cubase being Cubase the eassiest to learn. ( Logic isn't all that Logic....)
By the way, these days, those two also are all in one packages. Synths, plugins, whatever, its all there.



Cheers,


Tom
Old 14th March 2006
  #18
Gear Nut
 

rebirth has been released for free.

http://www.rebirthmuseum.com/

Easy to use, very simple, good sounds.

If you can't get into writing trance tracks with a 909 +2x303s then
I don't know where else to start.heh
Old 14th March 2006
  #19
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FL Studio and the free Synth1 VSTi and hes away.
Old 14th March 2006
  #20
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s0nguy's Avatar
 

thanks a lot ppl... ill tell him to look at reason then graduate to cubase or nuendo...

really appreciate it!

-s0nguy
Old 14th March 2006
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerillamixer
rebirth has been released for free.

http://www.rebirthmuseum.com/

Easy to use, very simple, good sounds.

If you can't get into writing trance tracks with a 909 +2x303s then
I don't know where else to start.heh
another vote for rebirth as a simple start. really great for a beginner, even easier than reason, has the basic building blocks of techno--808,909,303. you can't beat free.

i think its only os classic though.
Old 14th March 2006
  #22
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Deft bones:

HE'S A FREAKIN TOTAL BEGINNER!! THAT'S WHY I RECOMMENDED REASON. Tons of guy's doing dance are using Reason, trust me. (I personally hate the program.)

Of course, the accomplished PROS are using better tools. But then you have to worry about the learning curve, not to mention the investment.
Old 14th March 2006
  #23
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ShamansDream's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0nguy
thanks a lot ppl... ill tell him to look at reason then graduate to cubase or nuendo...

really appreciate it!

-s0nguy
If you have a spare unregistered copy of Reason Adapted (any version), you can get the adapted upgrade to Reason 3 for $299-.
Old 14th March 2006
  #24
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badoo's Avatar
 

Tiesto is using Ableton live....I think he should try in these two: reason or live
Old 14th March 2006
  #25
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Tom Sigmond's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by badoo
Tiesto is using Ableton live....I think he should try in these two: reason or live

Tiesto leaves most of the producing of his tracks to others... .


And to come back on Dopamine and Ubik statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopamine
Deft bones:

HE'S A FREAKIN TOTAL BEGINNER!! THAT'S WHY I RECOMMENDED REASON. Tons of guy's doing dance are using Reason, trust me. (I personally hate the program.)

Of course, the accomplished PROS are using better tools. But then you have to worry about the learning curve, not to mention the investment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubik
if you stick a total newbie on cubase, he'll be spending the vast majority of his time and brainpower figuring out how to record a basic midi track, and posting here asking things like "what's an aux?" and "what's a buffer?"
If he's a totall new beginner he has the same strugle with Reason as with any other sequencer a like program. Reason has midi and a virtual mixer with aux knobs also too you know... .
With all these programs you have to learn what synthese, recording, midi, audio etc. is. So with each of such a program out there, it wil be a strugle the first time.

He better ask himself two questions: How is my intension to this and how much money can I afford to spend.
If he just wants to play around a bit and can affort to spend some money, get a copy of Reason.
If he has serious attention and is a newbie to all of this stuff; let him begin with the good stuff. The learning curve wil be almost the same as any other program if he doesn't even know the basics and in this respect I think Cubase is the easiest to understand compared to Logic. And I know Cubase has a lite version which costs significantly less then the full program. He can always upgrade later.

In the trance techno scene its Reason for beginners (with less money and not a really intension in the beginning) and Cubas and Logic for serious people.
And if he wants to work with other people, lets not forget how much easier it is if you work with the same program.... .


Tom
Old 14th March 2006
  #26
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C Heat's Avatar
 

I got a MINT Waldorf pulse sitting in the closet.

I mean, MINT.

I mean actually used 2-3 times for like 10 minutes at a time. Yeh, yeh, tha's what they all say. But it's TRUE.

Sleep now...
Old 14th March 2006
  #27
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drockfresh's Avatar
Reason + Live
Old 14th March 2006
  #28
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wildstar's Avatar
 

There have been a lot of great suggestions already... But I'm going to go out on a limb with something different:

Why not a hardware groove box?

Is he (or are you) definitely opposed to hardware? I strongly feel it's the best place to start, and gives you a solid understanding and skill set for electronic music production. Kind of like starting your engineering career on a Tascam cassette 4-track.

Master a groove box, and you can eat any software for breakfast - beat it into sumission and make it do exactly what you want.

My personal favorite, and still the first-call synth in my studio for any "techno" style, are the E-Mu Command Stations. They're out of production, but you can find them used for about the same price as Reason. Lots of great sounds, easy to start making music, lots of knobs for tweaking. Fast, fun, and teaches you the foundations.

My 2¢!
Old 14th March 2006
  #29
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Empty Planet's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b i k
...eventually, he'll either get bored and move on to collecting shells....
Freakin' hilarious, Ubik.


Old 14th March 2006
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildstar
Why not a hardware groove box?

Indeed a very good idea. I also started with an Ensoniq ASR-10 ... ages ago
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