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Less expensive mics that sound like the Sony C-800G?
Old 11th March 2006
  #1
Here for the gear
 
Zena's Avatar
 

Less expensive mics that sound like the Sony C-800G?

Hey, I'm new to this forum, and I just have a question regarding the C-800G. I am a singer, and it's my understanding that Mariah Carey has used that mic from day one, and I've always loved the way that it sounds. Unfortunately I can't dish out the $7,000 to buy one, so I'm wandering if anyone has tried a less expensive mic that has the same sound. Right now I'm using a Nuemann U87 + Daking console + '60's LA-2A + Rosetta 800, and it's sound pretty great... but I'd really love to have the sound similar to what the C-800G produces. I read on here that you can just rent them, so I was thinking of doing that, but then I probably would never want to return it! Maybe ya'll can recommend some mics for me to try out???
Old 11th March 2006
  #2
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Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 

I have not personally tried one but I've heard that the Korby KAT system now has a head that replicates a C-800G. http://www.korbyaudio.com/kat4.html This new head is not mentioned so far on the Korby site but I have a friend who has demoed one this past week.

I think if you were to purchase just the body with only that capsule it would come out cheaper than the Sony. I have not heard one so I can't say how it sounds. Maybe some on who has experience with the Korby can chime in on this.

Old 11th March 2006 | Show parent
  #3
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SoundEng1's Avatar
I Demoed the Korby System and it really sounds great but the C800g and the C12 heads were the ones i least liked on vocals, but the C12 on acoustic guitars was great. If your really on a budget check out the Pearlman TM-1 , I borrowed Mind Over Midi's Pearlman and that Mic REALLY Sounds Great, For the money this one is going to be hard to beat. at the end i put up my C800g against the Korby C800g and still didnt like the Korby, The korby C800g head is tweakable so we wiil have to take another listen after its tweaked.
Old 11th March 2006 | Show parent
  #4
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Zena is my girlfriend. We've tried the Blue Bottle with B6 cap (C12 style) and it didn't sound very good on her. We much preferred the U87. Rue from Dallas has a Pearlman. He brought it over last time, but we ran out of time before we could try it. Maybe he'll stop by again so we can try it.
Old 11th March 2006
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zena
Hey, I'm new to this forum, and I just have a question regarding the C-800G. I am a singer, and it's my understanding that Mariah Carey has used that mic from day one, and I've always loved the way that it sounds. Unfortunately I can't dish out the $7,000 to buy one, so I'm wandering if anyone has tried a less expensive mic that has the same sound. Right now I'm using a Nuemann U87 + Daking console + '60's LA-2A + Rosetta 800, and it's sound pretty great... but I'd really love to have the sound similar to what the C-800G produces. I read on here that you can just rent them, so I was thinking of doing that, but then I probably would never want to return it! Maybe ya'll can recommend some mics for me to try out???

The C800-G really doesn't sound as great as you would think.


Its actually pretty boring and neutral sounding.


On the right voice you get the instant pop sound(lots of hi's and neutral mids).


Also its kinda picky on which mic pre you use.


I would say if you are considering it its worth a rental.


The tricks i've learned over the years is let it warm up for a while and use it in omni mode.


If you are liking the U87 than it maybe worth it to check out a U67 as well.
Old 11th March 2006
  #6
Deleted c40a31f
Guest
Hi Zena,

Welcome to GearSlutz! (althought I'm pretty new here myself)

So is your voice a lot like Mariah Carey's? If not, what sounds great for her may not nessesarily be the best choice for you. (but I'm sure you knew that)

And don't get trapped in thinking that the more expensive the mic the better it's going to work for you. (I tell myself that daily . . .maybe someday I'll listen! ) There are lots of mics in the $100 to $2000 range that might be perfect for you. I think it was Paula Cole who used the $800 CAD E300 for alot of her albums (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and Michael Jackson used the $300 Shure SM7 on the Thriller album.

I really thing it's at the very least a three way combination of the singer, the mic and the mic pre. So if your mic isn't quite getting you what you want maybe try it on a range of different mic pres.

I don't have experience with mics in the price range you are shooting for (every mic I have I paid less than $1500 for) but there are tons of pros here that have used, if not own, most of them.

Best of luck!


PS - OK . . .. my genetic wiring DEMANDS that I also mention how impressed I am with your stunning looks. You are seriously beautiful!!!
I noticed you a while back because I've been enjoying Rufuss' threads and saw your picture on one of his sites. I'm sure Rufuss will be sending me several of these soon : heh
You two make a great looking couple and the description of your band has me really interested in hearing you. Take care!
Old 11th March 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 

try a soundelux u99...sort of a like a u67. If you're enjoying the u87 but want the brightness of a c800 it's a good one to try...personally i don't really like the c800 on most singers...to bright.
-brian
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
 
Zena's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundEng1
I Demoed the Korby System and it really sounds great but the C800g and the C12 heads were the ones i least liked on vocals, but the C12 on acoustic guitars was great. If your really on a budget check out the Pearlman TM-1 , I borrowed Mind Over Midi's Pearlman and that Mic REALLY Sounds Great, For the money this one is going to be hard to beat. at the end i put up my C800g against the Korby C800g and still didnt like the Korby, The korby C800g head is tweakable so we wiil have to take another listen after its tweaked.
Hmmm... yeah I wish that I had gotten a chance to try that Pearlman out.
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpatural
try a soundelux u99...sort of a like a u67.
-brian

But not.

A U67 is fuller sounding with solid mids.

The U99 sometimes just gives you a headache.

With the rip your head off hi mids.
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Here for the gear
 
Zena's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImJohn
Hi Zena,

Welcome to GearSlutz! (althought I'm pretty new here myself)

So is your voice a lot like Mariah Carey's? If not, what sounds great for her may not nessesarily be the best choice for you. (but I'm sure you knew that)

And don't get trapped in thinking that the more expensive the mic the better it's going to work for you. (I tell myself that daily . . .maybe someday I'll listen! ) There are lots of mics in the $100 to $2000 range that might be perfect for you. I think it was Paula Cole who used the $800 CAD E300 for alot of her albums (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and Michael Jackson used the $300 Shure SM7 on the Thriller album.

I really thing it's at the very least a three way combination of the singer, the mic and the mic pre. So if your mic isn't quite getting you what you want maybe try it on a range of different mic pres.

I don't have experience with mics in the price range you are shooting for (every mic I have I paid less than $1500 for) but there are tons of pros here that have used, if not own, most of them.

Best of luck!


PS - OK . . .. my genetic wiring DEMANDS that I also mention how impressed I am with your stunning looks. You are seriously beautiful!!!
I noticed you a while back because I've been enjoying Rufuss' threads and saw your picture on one of his sites. I'm sure Rufuss will be sending me several of these soon : heh
You two make a great looking couple and the description of your band has me really interested in hearing you. Take care!
Thanks for the compliment John, we'll have some songs up in about a week. To answer your question, I've been told that my voice sound like a mixture of Mariah Carey & Maynard from Tool... as strange as that may sound. So, that's why I was wondering about the c800g. I wonder what Maynard uses... anyone know? i'm pretty happy with the Daking pre, I think we're just going to try recording in another room, to try and get a brighter sound out of the U87. If indeed the c800g is on the very bright side, then that's not really what I'm looking for. I think that if we can get a brighter sound out of the U87, then that would give us a good middle ground between the two. I'm looking for a sound that's nice n' crisp... yet buttery. Mmmm, cookies...
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #11
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SoundEng1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
But not.

A U67 is fuller sounding with solid mids.

The U99 sometimes just gives you a headache.

With the rip your head off hi mids.
I totally agree.
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
But not.

A U67 is fuller sounding with solid mids.

The U99 sometimes just gives you a headache.

With the rip your head off hi mids.

I had a U99 for a while. Too bright and thin for my taste. On most anything. U67 is kind of rolled off on top, isn't it? She may not like that, but then. And I did have a nice Sony C37a. That might also work for a lot less money. Not real bright, but very hi-fi sounding. Teamed up wonderfully with an API 312.
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #13
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popmann's Avatar
Quote:
I think that if we can get a brighter sound out of the U87, then that would give us a good middle ground between the two. I'm looking for a sound that's nice n' crisp... yet buttery. Mmmm, cookies...
The Innertube Audio 87 mod is brighter up top than a stock 87, but retains it's characteristic low mid growl. It kinda tames the upper mid thing, too. On the high end, it's not so much brighter as it is "consistently" brighter, if you get my drift. Retaining a nice little air throughout the range of SPLs of a vocal.

I don't know if I'd call it "crisp". In that family of sound, the Korby67 , to me, was more crisp...a really extended high end without being overtly "bright" like his 251 or C12 heads. It does lack the midrange fowardness of a real 67 or 87...but, he pulls it out on purpose-I'm sure he'd put it back for you.

You know...I read that Richard Marx (as a producer-not artist) has forsaken his C800 for the AT4060...I've never used a C800, but the 4060 isn't at all what I'd call "bright". It's midrange is very foward, but...there no way you'll get the kind of air they get on Joss Stone's records (w/c800).
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great
On most anything. U67 is kind of rolled off on top, isn't it?

But with nice mids.

It takes EQ really well.

She(or Rufus) can add the "air"after.
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Maybe try a Sony C48. I've had good success with that on many sources, including female singers. A sweet sound, doesn't try to add all the "character" of many of the hyped mics.
I've not used C800G, from the recordings I've heard of it (clear, pretty) it seems similar to this C48. I know the capules cost about the same, FWIW, and it has a transformer....


Steve
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Nut
 
T-fonk's Avatar
 

Check the SE z5600 out! It might be fantastic, or the worst nightmare.... If you can control your s's, it can sound beatiful. It can be "harsch" in the upper mids/top, but maybe it's good for your voice!?

T
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
Speaking of the C800g, check out the clip from David Gilmour's new record:

http://exodus.interoutemediaservices...elivery=stream
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #18
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 

Nice clip!

Gilmour sounds nice on the C800. I still prefer a U57 or U69 for vocals personally.
For me all that matters is how it sounds & sits in the mix.

There are three or four guys who can tailor a mic to sound perfect for your vocal, and I'd trust Tracy Korby to do it right. In the budget range of custom work, you might also consider demo'ing a Charter Oaks, I've been really impressed by theirs and the owner customizes his mics nicely.

Hope these thoughts help!

JvB
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #19
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImJohn
PS - OK . . .. my genetic wiring DEMANDS that I also mention how impressed I am with your stunning looks. You are seriously beautiful!!!
I noticed you a while back because I've been enjoying Rufuss' threads and saw your picture on one of his sites. I'm sure Rufuss will be sending me several of these soon : heh
You two make a great looking couple and the description of your band has me really interested in hearing you. Take care!
She is seriously beautiful... but better yet, she's into gear! I predict she will one day be a famous producer. She'll have a few hit singles of her own (with our band Estrum) and go right into production. The other band members and I are great players... but she immediately weeds out the great stuff from the ****** crap. As a result the songs end up much much better. Plus she writes the best songs out of all of us despite the fact that the rest of us have been writting songs for 10+ years. And she's only 20.

I'll be showing off a few tunes written by Zena here in a bit.
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #20
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

I think the Peluso 22 251 would be a good choice for female vocals....

I'm not saying it sounds like the C800G, but honestly there aren't a lot of mics that will at any price point. Regardless, if you haven't tried the C800G out on your voice, you might be disappointed to find out that it simply doesn't work on everyone. I myself owned one for the better part of 5 years, and while it was a great mic, it is not a mic that will sound great on every voice (dare I say even most voices). People hate me for saying this, but in my room, I oftentimes got better results with my SM57 than the Sony. Take that comment with a grain of salt, as I also didn't have the luxury of a proper vocal booth. The SM57 was better for the simple fact that I was able to get less background noise using it.

The U87 is a mic that is much more likely to sound good on a variety of voices. But, if you want something that sounds a little more open you may want to look at auditioning the Peluso 251...

Either way, good luck in your quest for a mic!
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #21
Deleted c40a31f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zena
I've been told that my voice sound like a mixture of Mariah Carey & Maynard from Tool... as strange as that may sound. So, that's why I was wondering about the c800g. I wonder what Maynard uses... anyone know?
Someone here may know. A quick web search turned up :

"vintage Neumann (CMV3a?)" was mentioned here FWIW : http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/

In 2001 he was using a Shure SM57a or SM87 live :
http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_perfe...cle/index.html

On this page of Tool's site are some recording session pictures for their up coming album. There are a couple Maynard pics but the mic pictured could be one of many different SM58 style mics. Audix maybe? And who knows if it was what he used on every song or just one particular song . . . .
http://www.toolband.com/source/photo/main.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zena
i'm pretty happy with the Daking pre, I think we're just going to try recording in another room, to try and get a brighter sound out of the U87. If indeed the c800g is on the very bright side, then that's not really what I'm looking for. I think that if we can get a brighter sound out of the U87, then that would give us a good middle ground between the two. I'm looking for a sound that's nice n' crisp... yet buttery. Mmmm, cookies...
"The Eternal Search For The Ultimate Cookie!"

While I think that the Daking pres are awesome (don't have one yet but one is on my very short list . . .space even set aside in my mic pre rack!) I think that you might achieve what you are looking for with a different pre or different mic+pre combination.

I'd suggest trying your U87 with a Martech MSS-10 pre :
http://www.mercenary.com/martechmss10.html I have one and it's pretty increadible for vocals (or snare . . . or just about anything!)

Or maybe even a brighter mic with a darker pre . . . .maybe a BLUE Blueberry with an A-Designs tube pre???


Best of luck!
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #22
Deleted c40a31f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell
She is seriously beautiful... but better yet, she's into gear! I predict she will one day be a famous producer. She'll have a few hit singles of her own (with our band Estrum) and go right into production. The other band members and I are great players... but she immediately weeds out the great stuff from the ****** crap. As a result the songs end up much much better. Plus she writes the best songs out of all of us despite the fact that the rest of us have been writting songs for 10+ years. And she's only 20.

I'll be showing off a few tunes written by Zena here in a bit.

Welll . . . . . if human cloning ever becomes legal and practical I'm sure she could become a billionare selling DNA samples! She sound like rare perfection indeed!

I'm looking forward to hearing your stuff Rufuss!

Hey, wasn't that you asking about how to get the Porcupine Tree snare drum sound? Ever get close??
Old 12th March 2006
  #23
Lives for gear
 
lawrence_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zena
Hey, I'm new to this forum, and I just have a question regarding the C-800G. I am a singer, and it's my understanding that Mariah Carey has used that mic from day one, and I've always loved the way that it sounds. Unfortunately I can't dish out the $7,000 to buy one, so I'm wandering if anyone has tried a less expensive mic that has the same sound. Right now I'm using a Nuemann U87 + Daking console + '60's LA-2A + Rosetta 800, and it's sound pretty great... but I'd really love to have the sound similar to what the C-800G produces. I read on here that you can just rent them, so I was thinking of doing that, but then I probably would never want to return it! Maybe ya'll can recommend some mics for me to try out???

Try a HAIFENG SYT-2. it costs about 400-500 USD and sounds frakkin great! It's a chinase Mic, a clone of a Neuman U-87. Although I never had the real Neuman, a dude I know has and he leaves them in the closet and uses the Haifengs. That must count for something I'd say since he is a damn good engineer.

Don't know where you can get them in your country but search on the net and you'll find them.

I have an AKG C414 BTL-II and the Haifeng is WAY better...

A sony has to be very very very much better for me to buy it for that ridiculous amount of money. Don't believe more expensive is always better.. Test and try.

Hope it helps.
Old 12th March 2006 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
 

Sony C800G is my vocal mic of choice as well. I have to disagree with the poster who said it was boring or super neutral or whatever. I'm no label queen and I'm perfectly comfortable accepting anything if it works well but I have to say that the C800G is pretty special. Very smooth and kind to upper mids and highs and still has lots of soul and character down below. Not peaky in anyway but not boring or flat anywhere either.

The Sony C48 is a good suggestion and they can be found for under $1500 but I see them rarely. I have every desire for trying the Pulossi and Charter Oak et al but really have no idea how as no one around me (NYC) carries most of them to my knowledge. Though a darker mic, the AT 4060 is a tube mic with a lot of smooth character and good with female vox through a super clean "hard" pre like a Grace or similar. The result can be similar to a C800G through a more cushy colored pre like a chandler.
Old 13th March 2006 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell
She is seriously beautiful... but better yet, she's into gear! I predict she will one day be a famous producer. She'll have a few hit singles of her own (with our band Estrum) and go right into production. The other band members and I are great players... but she immediately weeds out the great stuff from the ****** crap. As a result the songs end up much much better. Plus she writes the best songs out of all of us despite the fact that the rest of us have been writting songs for 10+ years. And she's only 20.

I'll be showing off a few tunes written by Zena here in a bit.

Does she have any sisters? LOL, I had to end a relationship because of this business, that sucked but hopefully I'll get as lucky as you Rufuss. Great gear and a great girl, what the hell else can you ask for. Not once in 2 years did my ex come down to even see how a session goes. I'm also interested in how your mic dilema works out, I've been looking for a go to mic for females(I know there isn't one go to mic) and have yet to find it. My baby bottle seems nice until you put it into a mix, it just doesn't seem to ever sit right no matter what I do. So let us know how that goes.
Old 13th March 2006 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
You want a brite top end.... ?


Why not try an AKG 414 ?


It can be really good for those Airy vocals heh



worth a try.....




steve






Old 13th March 2006
  #27
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lordmiguel's Avatar
 

I really like the c800g with the right pre, especially on many females, but it sounds quite clean, so you want to keep that in your mind in the hunt for the sound of the band. i'm from the philosophy that the vocal sound should fit within the overall vision of the music. there are a lot of other clean mics if that is in fact what you're truly looking for, but i can't say that you will get the sound of the c800g. other bright top ends i've used include the manley gold, but it doesn't have the mids. if you can't afford the real thing and are also not prepared to try with other preamps then i'd say stick with what you have if it sounds good, it looks like an impressive vocal chain most would admire.
Old 13th March 2006 | Show parent
  #28
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Oh yeah, we'll work with the 414 a bit more. It's not that we're not willing to try other pre's, it's just that we don't have much to choose from and the Daking sounds awesome. I'll give the 414 another shot though. Fairly soon I'll be picking up a B7 for my Blue Bottle as well so that might do the trick. The B6 does NOT sound good on her.
Old 13th March 2006 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

In a shootout I did a couple of years ago, the Sony came in second to last when compared to the Brauner Valvet and all of the Soundeluxe options.

It did beat my TLM103 but I paid $750 for that mic.

So, Yes. IMHO there are an awful lot of cheaper better choices.

Call Mercenary Audio and have him send you a bunch.

Good Luck.
Old 13th March 2006 | Show parent
  #30
DHD
Gear Nut
 
DHD's Avatar
 

Hi there Rufuss Sewell and Zena,

I read on a Micheal Wagener thread ([email protected]) that he used a Beyer MC 740. If you follow the thread to the end then you can lisen to an MP3 of the final mix of a track called Big Star. I think there was a little too much bass rolled off the voice in the mix IMO but the mic sounds like it was stellar!

From my perspective once you identify a good mic to work with Zena then it's a great idea to have a mic pre shoot out. It will get you to the next level. Book some time in another studio with a range of pres and with your new mic and make some test recordings. Maybe you've got a buddy who works or owns a studio and you can go there to test.

With a male vocal it's easy but female vox requires you to be a bit fussy about what mic. Even if Zena has ellements of Maynard Keenan to her voice you can't necessarily go by that.

Good luck with Estrum. The more great female fronted Metal bands out there, the better IMO.

Peace,
DHD
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