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Plugin idea..does it exist?
Old 9th March 2006
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Tranny-Cap-Tube's Avatar
 

Plugin idea..does it exist?

Young guitarists often ask me why they have to double their guitar tracks and say " can't you just copy the first one to a new track". I then explain why that dosn't work...i.e comb filtering, random timing issues, it will just sound like 1 mono track etc.

So I was thinking, does a plugin exist that will copy a guitar track whilst adding a significant amount of micro timing/pitch adjustments and variability so it sounds like a 'double tracked' guitar track? And if not, why?
Old 9th March 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
LewisWu's Avatar
 

Waves doubler
Old 9th March 2006
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

I think it's a lot better to do another take than using plugs for this.

I have the Waves Doubler, but I don't think it works very well.

What I have done occasionally is to copy the 2. verse from, let's call it "Track 1", copy it to a new "Track 2" and place is on the 1. verse. Then copy the 2. chorus and place it on the first chorus of Track 2. Etc.

If the song and it's structure allows you to do so, this might work.
Old 9th March 2006
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Tranny-Cap-Tube's Avatar
 

Frequency, I agree, the Waves doubler isn't quite what I'm talking about... basicly it's just a chorus plug. I frequently use the 2nd verse/chorus guitars in the way you described too.
Old 9th March 2006
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Wouldn't it need to do something like chop up the audio into sections based on transients (like Recycle) and then slightly adjust the pitch and timing of those regions separately? I don't know, that's the first thing I thought of. That could be a fun plugin for different things.

-Mike
Old 9th March 2006
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
tunasafedolphin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranny-Cap-Tube
And if not, why?
It's not possible for a number of reasons. A few that come to mind at the moment are barometeric pressure, physics and Chaos Theory...

-C
Old 9th March 2006
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Tranny-Cap-Tube's Avatar
 

Interesting MIke. Yeah the plug would have to take many, many factors into consideration. Varying transients timing, RMS values, pitch, compression, phase mod, chorusing, picking ampitude, varying tube pre and power amp response, etc... It'd be sweet if this plug could also make the syntheticly doubled track sound like a diff. amp or guitar(modelling?). If it worked good, one could take a great performance and make a really tight double of it reguardless of whether the artist was able to tightly double it. Could be cool eh??
Old 9th March 2006
  #8
Gear Nut
 
Jonsos's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranny-Cap-Tube
Interesting MIke. Yeah the plug would have to take many, many factors into consideration. Varying transients timing, RMS values, pitch, compression, phase mod, chorusing, Could be cool eh??

Does'nt Cubase do that anyway, without you having to even ask it ??heh heh



_______________________________________________________

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Old 9th March 2006
  #9
Lives for gear
 
octatonic's Avatar
Just tell the lazy bastards to play the track again... it takes 3-4 mins.
Sheesh!

Old 9th March 2006
  #10
Gear Addict
 
tomwehrle's Avatar
 

yeah....if a musician can't double up a basic rhythm track to get the sound of doubling a electric or acoustic guitar...then they suck
Old 9th March 2006
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Tranny-Cap-Tube's Avatar
 

Guys....I agree. I do make em' play the song again.

But s/w like I described would be cool for many other things as well. And would be a time saver....I'd buy it if it worked,

I wonder if an 'Anti-Voc-Align' would come close.
Old 9th March 2006
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Junkie's Avatar
 

You could copy the track as suggested, then just shift it forward/back a frame or two. Add a slight pitch difference if wanted as well or at least a different tone or distortion (if using distortion) to the original, utilizing pan would also help.
But I agree, won't have the same natural effect as them playing again.
But in their defence, time is money.
Old 9th March 2006
  #13
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closest thing i did is one guitar with two outputs... 2 separately wired pickups...

then 2 completely deifferent setups like amp speakers misc

one goest to DA the other to tape...

but... compared to pro doubled gutars tracking... its sucked big time

anyway... anthrax..sound of white noise album... ian scott... 7 different guitars... i wonder... was is a waste of time...

i think there should be a way of single guitar tracking that actually sounds good without doubling ??? (good in a dense heavy sense - ya know)

like everything in life..you gain something + you loose something...but i kinda cant tolerate doubling mush and loss of performance details of doubled guitar tracking no more...

i do it for others every day thou...
Old 9th March 2006
  #14
Lives for gear
 
octatonic's Avatar
Just theorising here.
Using two amps of different flavours - both tube but one with a solid state rectifier the other with a tube recitifer might do the trick.

The solid state rectifier will give a slight more up front sound, the tube recitifer will sag a bit- might do the job.
Old 9th March 2006
  #15
Gear Addict
 
celebritymusic's Avatar
 

Doubling up guitars is one of the fun wanky things to do!!!

Maybe set him up in the studio room with a huge monitoring setup so he sounds like the love child of Satriani and Godzilla, give him some lube and tell him to go nuts!!!

Doubled power chords sound so cool when you're playing 'em.

Shaun
Old 9th March 2006
  #16
Gear Head
 
fatcat's Avatar
 

I think it would be a very cool plug...but I don't think it exists yet!
Old 9th March 2006
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

I read in an old guitar player magazine recently the EVH used an H3000 for this. He said the original track was on one side and the doubled track was on the other pitched down 98 cents. This was on the Balance record.

Also, Mega's Countdown To Extinction there is no doubled guitars. I think they must have used a splitter to different amps. It sounds pretty good to me.

HTH,
-ants
Old 9th March 2006
  #18
Lives for gear
 
crypticglobe's Avatar
For GOD'S SAKE PLAY THE PART AGAIN!!!! There will never be an effect that can really duplicate the way this sounds. Especially not if you do it right... 2nd take... different guitar/amp, etc.

And yes... as a guitar player... this is FUN!! What ****** is complaining about this? What GUITAR PLAYER does not want to play more?!?!?!??!

This thread cracks me up!!!!!!! LOL!!!

Love to everyone here... but.... JEEZ!!!
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