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The Ctrl room/Booth puzzle
Old 6th March 2006
  #1
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sedohr's Avatar
 

The Ctrl room/Booth puzzle

Hi guys

You can help me!

I have a garage. It´s an empty box right now. 7.15 m x 2.80 m (that´s 23.5 ft x 9.2 ft) I need to devide it into a control room and a recording booth.



1. I want the control room to be on the window side.
2. I want a little space by the door for the computers and the noisy stuff. From there I would enter the booth.
(So I would walk through the booth to enter the Control room.)

How would be appropriate to do this ? Without having it too square?

Thanks,
Kalli
Attached Thumbnails
The Ctrl room/Booth puzzle-studioboxraw.jpg  
Old 6th March 2006
  #2
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sedohr's Avatar
 

This is logical but the booth is kinda silly and the ctrl room is kinda square

Attached Thumbnails
The Ctrl room/Booth puzzle-studio0.1.jpg  
Old 6th March 2006
  #3
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Stick's Avatar
 

Go here... check out the studio design forum.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php
Old 7th March 2006
  #4
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sedohr's Avatar
 

of course, thanks.

Why do my images show twice ??
Old 7th March 2006
  #5
Gear Nut
 

A little something to keep in mind:

If you want the window for natural light, it may be very hard to see through the glass into the booth from the reflection. Be aware of the angle, etc, so it's not too much of a problem. Of course, seeing is secondary to hearing, but it can be quite useful at times.

I have to deal with this all the time in the room I usually work in. Curtains are an option, but then you lose that lovely natural light and clients don't like that.
Old 7th March 2006
  #6
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sedohr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndogg
A little something to keep in mind:

If you want the window for natural light, it may be very hard to see through the glass into the booth from the reflection. Be aware of the angle, etc, so it's not too much of a problem. Of course, seeing is secondary to hearing, but it can be quite useful at times.

I have to deal with this all the time in the room I usually work in. Curtains are an option, but then you lose that lovely natural light and clients don't like that.
wow! Good point. I never would have thought of that one! Thanks!
Old 7th March 2006
  #7
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Kalli,

> I need to devide it into a control room and a recording booth. <

Some room dimensions ratios are better than others. See the ModeCalc explanation in my Acoustics FAQ:

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

There you'll find a list of "good" ratios, as well as a program you can download to experiment with your own dimensions to see how they distribute the room modes.

--Ethan
Old 8th March 2006
  #8
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sedohr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer
Kalli,

> I need to devide it into a control room and a recording booth. <

Some room dimensions ratios are better than others. See the ModeCalc explanation in my Acoustics FAQ:

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

There you'll find a list of "good" ratios, as well as a program you can download to experiment with your own dimensions to see how they distribute the room modes.

--Ethan
Thanks Ethan

I´m going to study the FAQs. I´ve been posting on the recording studio design forum. It´s moving along. The carpenters will be here tomorrow to tear down my storage and begin to build the new studio. Now, bear in mind that this is a personal studio but should be capable of doing world class records. This is the latest idea:



I wonder if it would be enough to begin with to put a minitrap in each corner behind the speakers..(there's a window there)

Thanks,
Kalli
Attached Thumbnails
The Ctrl room/Booth puzzle-studio2nd_175.jpg  
Old 8th March 2006
  #9
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Don't get nuts about this stuff... I really believe that working environment should be your first thoughts... Any room after that, just so it is not a square, should be able to treat.. Make the room the way you want it then treat it... You should be fine.. This is something that you love to do, so make the room a place YOU love to be in..
4 traps are going to help but your room will need more... Think more like 8.. See case study at http://www.sbrjournal.net/currentiss.../Acoustics.htm
to see how room treatment works for you..


Glenn
Old 8th March 2006
  #10
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sedohr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie
Don't get nuts about this stuff... I really believe that working environment should be your first thoughts... Any room after that, just so it is not a square, should be able to treat.. Make the room the way you want it then treat it... You should be fine.. This is something that you love to do, so make the room a place YOU love to be in..
4 traps are going to help but your room will need more... Think more like 8.. See case study at http://www.sbrjournal.net/currentiss.../Acoustics.htm
to see how room treatment works for you..


Glenn
Thanks Glenn for your comforting words. And the link. Wow, this is science! I will never understand this. Let me arrange for symphonic orchestra and deal with divas and play advanced jazzscales on the piano but whoa, this is beyond my understanding

But I will get the room to be like I like it and then treat it, that´s a good advice.

thanks,
Kalli
Old 8th March 2006
  #11
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bonneybear's Avatar
 

I have the same garage set-up. Do yourself a favor and put the control room near the street and the studio by the garden. You'll get less cars/motorcycles on your recordings. Make the glass large enough so you can still enjoy the view through the studio.
Old 8th March 2006
  #12
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Kalli,

> This is the latest idea <

One problem I see is the concave angle behind you. That tends to focus sound back at your ears. This type of focusing is the opposite of diffusion and is best avoided. If you can make that wall angle the other way, to be a peak in the room, that would be best. Otherwise just make it straight across.

> I wonder if it would be enough to begin with to put a minitrap in each corner behind the speakers. <

For only two traps, the front corners are usually the best. But as Glenn said, you should be thinking more along the lines of eight traps. It all boils down to how many damaging peaks and nulls, and how much ringing, you're willing to accept.

--Ethan
Old 9th March 2006
  #13
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sedohr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer
Kalli,

> This is the latest idea <

One problem I see is the concave angle behind you. That tends to focus sound back at your ears. This type of focusing is the opposite of diffusion and is best avoided. If you can make that wall angle the other way, to be a peak in the room, that would be best. Otherwise just make it straight across.

> I wonder if it would be enough to begin with to put a minitrap in each corner behind the speakers. <

For only two traps, the front corners are usually the best. But as Glenn said, you should be thinking more along the lines of eight traps. It all boils down to how many damaging peaks and nulls, and how much ringing, you're willing to accept.

--Ethan
Oh, I see


Typical me. Actually, they have already build that wall.
So you´re saying this is worse than a square ? I was under the impression that as long as there weren´t any 90 degrees corners and the control room was symmetric, then it was on the right track.

So am I doomed ?



thanks
Kalli

ps Glenn, that´s what I get not reading the scientific essey

WAIT!! Ethan, if I put my desk up on the other side of the control room, against the iso booth window, then I should be fine ???
Old 9th March 2006
  #14
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sedohr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonneybear
I have the same garage set-up. Do yourself a favor and put the control room near the street and the studio by the garden. You'll get less cars/motorcycles on your recordings. Make the glass large enough so you can still enjoy the view through the studio.
thanks Bonneybear.

It´s actually set up that way, the "Street" is a quiet little street while just across the "garden" is more traffic.

Still, the booth will be pretty isolated..

Thanks,
Kalli
Old 9th March 2006
  #15
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Kalli,

> I was under the impression that as long as there weren´t any 90 degrees corners and the control room was symmetric, then it was on the right track. <

Live and learn! heh

Seriously, angles can be good, but they're not a solution to all problems. And as you can see now, some angles are worse than no angle.

> So am I doomed ? <

Not at all! You can fix that with broadband absorption in front of that part of the wall. I'd put a 4-foot wide trap in the middle of that wall (or two 2-foot wide traps adjacent.)

> if I put my desk up on the other side of the control room, against the iso booth window, then I should be fine ??? <

That might help a little, but not completely.

--Ethan
Old 9th March 2006
  #16
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sedohr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer
Kalli,

> I was under the impression that as long as there weren´t any 90 degrees corners and the control room was symmetric, then it was on the right track. <

Live and learn! heh

Seriously, angles can be good, but they're not a solution to all problems. And as you can see now, some angles are worse than no angle.

> So am I doomed ? <

Not at all! You can fix that with broadband absorption in front of that part of the wall. I'd put a 4-foot wide trap in the middle of that wall (or two 2-foot wide traps adjacent.)

> if I put my desk up on the other side of the control room, against the iso booth window, then I should be fine ??? <

That might help a little, but not completely.

--Ethan
Thanks Ethan

and BTW, great article in SOS about distortion. I read that article weeks before ever knowing you´d be advicing me over the net
Old 10th March 2006
  #17
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pkautzsch's Avatar
 

Asymmetric Booth

This is my late-night impro suggestion.
You'd have a sort of machine room next to the door, and accessable from the CR.
And putting everything slightly diagonal can help a lot against modes...
Just an odd idea maybe.
the brown lines mean "absorptive"...
Maybe even a glass door...??
Old 10th March 2006
  #18
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oops

...forgot to attach the image...
Attached Thumbnails
The Ctrl room/Booth puzzle-garage.jpg  
Old 10th March 2006
  #19
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sedohr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch
...forgot to attach the image...
Thanks for that idea. It´s really out of the box, to switch the rooms, have the control room before the recording hall. I think it´s a good idea in a way, still I feel like I have to use the space a little better.

But anyway, the walls have been build by now, I´ll have the glass tomorrow, the builders are finishing the entrance and this weekend the floor will be evened out.
So by the end of next week I hope I will be up and running. Many albums are waiting to be made.

I still feel a little bad about having the walls made out with a wrong angle (see Ethans post above) because I´m having the studio tailored for me. But I´ll get over it.



Kalli
Old 10th March 2006
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedohr
Thanks for that idea. It´s really out of the box, to switch the rooms, have the control room before the recording hall. I think it´s a good idea in a way, still I feel like I have to use the space a little better.

But anyway, the walls have been build by now, I´ll have the glass tomorrow, the builders are finishing the entrance and this weekend the floor will be evened out.
So by the end of next week I hope I will be up and running. Many albums are waiting to be made.

I still feel a little bad about having the walls made out with a wrong angle (see Ethans post above) because I´m having the studio tailored for me. But I´ll get over it.



Kalli
I really think your going to be fine if you treat as many corners as possible.. Trust me I have treated much worse and the rooms sounded great after the fact..


Glenn
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