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Coles 4038, Shinybox 23C, RE20 drum and sax samples
Old 28th February 2006
  #1
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timmcallister's Avatar
 

Coles 4038, Shinybox 23C, RE20 drum and sax samples

I LOVE the coles 4038 on sax and drums. Just for the fun f it, I bought a ShinyBox 23-C to see how it sounded.

To hear how they compared, I recorded drums (my sons band, they're 16 so give em a break :-) and a saxophone.

For drums:
I places a coles 4038 and Shinybox 23C side by side, 5 feet in front of the drums, about 5 feet high. He is only playing a crossstick on this take. Samples normalized to -2db.


For sax:
I placed a coles 4038, shinybox 23-C and added an EV RE20. All side by side, the sax player is about 12 inches back. The samples were not normalized. But peaks were witin 1.3db across the samples.



Just for the fun of it, I loaded all files without identification. Lets see if you can guess... I'll ID the samples in a few days.
Attached Files

sax1.mp3 (1.03 MB, 2018 views)

sax2.mp3 (1.03 MB, 1763 views)

sax3.mp3 (1.03 MB, 1782 views)

1drums.mp3 (245.6 KB, 2229 views)

2drums.mp3 (244.4 KB, 2143 views)

Old 28th February 2006
  #2
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Alexi's Avatar
 

i really preferred the second drum sample over the first one....i guess its the 4038
Old 1st March 2006
  #3
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timmcallister's Avatar
 

I was asked what preamps were used. While I have some decent pres (Seventh circle, Peavey vmp2, etc) The only thing i had three channels of was mackie...

so rather than using different pres, I ran them all through the mackie pres
Old 2nd March 2006
  #4
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StefanColson's Avatar
 

I too liked drum sample 2 better than 1. I certainly hope that it's the shinybox (I love when cheap stuff sounds great).
Old 2nd March 2006
  #5
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Alexi's Avatar
 

hey timmcallister............


want to tell which was whichheh heh heh ?
Old 2nd March 2006
  #6
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jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 

hmmm..

they both sound good...who knows...

i got a chance to use a shiny box 23 as a mono drum overhead with my good friend and killer mastering engineer Brad Sarno in St.Louis...he is the kind of guy that hears UNBELIEVEABLY small details in sound...I trust him implicitly...

i use coles 4038's and royers ALL THE TIME...they are my go to drum overhead and room mics....really the only way i think i can get pt to sound ok on drums....in no uncertain terms...the shiny box BLEW ME AWAY !!! the shiny box was used in a ms configuration with a akg 451....in a small room...my gretsch kit and instanbul cymbals sounded AMAZING....and REAL...exactly what we were going for.

pure and simple...it sounded great...and i will be buying several...i nearly fell over when he told me how much they were going for...wow...

yes...cheap gear that sounds great...is well...great..

peace..
Old 2nd March 2006
  #7
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nathanvacha's Avatar
 

My vote is drums 2 also and sax 1, fwiw. Sax 2 was to "breathey" and i thought sax 3 was honkey. Drums 2 definetely fuller than 1, when do we find out what's what?
Old 2nd March 2006
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Liked drums 2 better. Don't record or listen critically enough to sax to make a choice on that.
Old 4th March 2006
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

How bout the results?
Old 4th March 2006
  #10
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rainsinvelvet's Avatar
well, I don't know sax much so I'll comment on the drums.
I'de have to say that #2 did it for me over #1.
#2 Seemed to have a bit more oommff in the kick.

If I had to just take a guess not having any experience with either mic I'de say that the Coles is #2, but what do I know....
Either way both sounded completely usable!

ERic
Old 4th March 2006
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixman499
hmmm..

they both sound good...who knows...

i got a chance to use a shiny box 23 as a mono drum overhead with my good friend and killer mastering engineer Brad Sarno in St.Louis...he is the kind of guy that hears UNBELIEVEABLY small details in sound...I trust him implicitly...

i use coles 4038's and royers ALL THE TIME...they are my go to drum overhead and room mics....really the only way i think i can get pt to sound ok on drums....in no uncertain terms...the shiny box BLEW ME AWAY !!! the shiny box was used in a ms configuration with a akg 451....in a small room...my gretsch kit and instanbul cymbals sounded AMAZING....and REAL...exactly what we were going for.

pure and simple...it sounded great...and i will be buying several...i nearly fell over when he told me how much they were going for...wow...

yes...cheap gear that sounds great...is well...great..

peace..
I think we are talking about the same thing right? The Nady ribbons under the different name?

If that is the case then I have two and I LOVE them for drum room. They are not very well matched and I feel pretty bad knowing the working conditions that they could have been produced under but man these things are killer for drum room mics, at least at my place.
Old 4th March 2006
  #12
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
I think we are talking about the same thing right? The Nady ribbons under the different name?
yes... but add to that a Cinemag transformer.

i have a matched pair of 23C's and love em.
Old 4th March 2006
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay
yes... but add to that a Cinemag transformer.

i have a matched pair of 23C's and love em.
Cool... So I have heard about this mod before, got any links you could share?
Old 4th March 2006
  #14
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Cool... So I have heard about this mod before, got any links you could share?
well you buy them this way from ShinyBox
www.shinybox.com

23 = stock
23C = cinemag tranny
23L = lundahl tranny

same goes for 46/46C/46L

i managed to get mine matched at ShinyBox before the price for matched pairs went up $100 (i think i paid $630 for the pair). but still even at those new prices its a great deal, If you want a good old motown OH sound in a dirty room, having a matched pair of 23C's can't be beat untill you get into the $1k ribbons. And even then they compete surprisingly well. Great in blumline too. The cinemag transformer really levels out the frequency curve, and it bumps up the output of the mic. Still lots of proximity but a whole new top end versus a stock Nady.

also, i beleive Shinybox has these machined differently to have an XLR jack rather than a built in cable. This also makes positioning with the mount much easier. All around, its a big improvement on the Nadys.

i know he offers an upgrading service (charges just the difference in the cost between different transformers in the mics). But i don't know if he offers this to non-shinybox mics. you should email him and ask what it would cost to add some cinemags or lundahls to your Nadys if you wanna go that way. he uses custom printed circuit boards for these modifications.
Old 4th March 2006
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay
well you buy them this way from ShinyBox
www.shinybox.com

23 = stock
23C = cinemag tranny
23L = lundahl tranny

same goes for 46/46C/46L

i managed to get mine matched at ShinyBox before the price for matched pairs went up $100 (i think i paid $630 for the pair). but still even at those new prices its a great deal, If you want a good old motown OH sound in a dirty room, having a matched pair of 23C's can't be beat untill you get into the $1k ribbons. And even then they compete surprisingly well. Great in blumline too. The cinemag transformer really levels out the frequency curve, and it bumps up the output of the mic. Still lots of proximity but a whole new top end versus a stock Nady.

also, i beleive Shinybox has these machined differently to have an XLR jack rather than a built in cable. This also makes positioning with the mount much easier. All around, its a big improvement on the Nadys.

i know he offers an upgrading service (charges just the difference in the cost between different transformers in the mics). But i don't know if he offers this to non-shinybox mics. you should email him and ask what it would cost to add some cinemags or lundahls to your Nadys if you wanna go that way. he uses custom printed circuit boards for these modifications.

Cool thanks man.

Actually the pair I have I got from him about a year ago before he started the custom jobs. I might look him up on the upgrade or I might just crack them open and do it myself.

For the record I have a Coles 4040 and a Royer 121 and the Nady / SB ribbons hold their own for drum room. I used the 4040 and the 121 as spaced overheads most of the time and the SB ribbons stay as the far mics. They make me smile every time I hear them there.

Way cool....
Old 4th March 2006
  #16
Lives for gear
 

the HH of the drums on #2 is definitely darker and smoother but considering the price differences the shinybox is impressive.
Old 4th March 2006
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
but considering the price differences the shinybox is impressive.
We don't actually know if the Coles was #2 yet, do we?
I wonder how the 23L would have done in the test. It's got a bit more clarity than the 23C.
Old 5th March 2006
  #18
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Waste of time

Where are the results?
Old 6th March 2006
  #19
Gear Nut
 

I'd be interested in the results, too!
Old 6th March 2006
  #20
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I think maybe #2 is the 23c. Most reviews of the Chinese mics say they're more boomy and coloured. That's the only reason I say this. They both sound good.
Old 6th March 2006
  #21
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

drums2 is a little more punchy. and i like it.
but they are extremely close to each other, so close that i am glad i didnt buy a Coles.

i loaded both the files up in Live 5, and got the start points synced up. flipped the phase on one and a good bit of the low end cancelled out noticably (mostly below 100hz)

so give up the results already!
Old 6th March 2006
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Sax: Honestly, I don't hear a big enough difference to judge which one might be best. This could be due to the low quality of the mp3 files (an encodeing at 128 kps washes away all differences, wish you had posted 196kps encoded MP3 or WAV files).

But this "non-result" is actually amazing in itself: it appears that the cheapo Chinese ribbon mic sounds surprisingly good compared to other, more expensive mics! I would have never expected this.

P.S.: nice playing in the sax! (I am a tenor player myself)
Old 6th March 2006
  #23
Gear Nut
 

I liked #2 on drums due to better detail (you could here the resonance of the drums much better). I also preferred #2 on Sax as well...
Old 6th March 2006
  #24
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timmcallister's Avatar
 

SORRY FOLKS FOR THE DELAY

I'm at work right now, and can't remember which number=which mic for sax (and I can't listen to them, though I CAN hear the difference) I'll post sax info tonight.

But for the drums............................

#1 was shinybox 23c
#2 was the coles


About the shinybox 23/46 C vs L. I talked to Jon at length about this. When I was shopping for ribbon mics a while back, I got the Coles, AEA and Royer. I picked the coles (and sent the other back). While the others sounded great, they had a very definate "extension" to the high end (which i didn;t really want), and coles has got this meat in the low, mid lows that kills. That was the sound I wanted.

I discussed my preference for the coles over other ribbons with Jon, and he said the L had a bit more extension, maybe even slightly scooped mids "more hi-fi". Might be great for some, but not what I wanted. So I went with the cinemag.

Like most posters, ON THIS RECORDING I prefer the Coles over the shinybox, but the shinybox is impressive considering price. Also to note, I just threw these mics up. Had I taken the time to better place the mics, there may have been more/less difference.


The drums were played by the kid in my sons band, the sax was played by the tenor player in my band. Sax info is below.
Old 6th March 2006
  #25
Gear Addict
 
timmcallister's Avatar
 

SAXOPHONE samples:

#1 Coles 4038
#2 RE20
#3 Shinybox 23c

I like the coles best for sax as well. Smoother overall.

The Shinybox is second choice to me, just a tiny bit honky in a few registers. Doesn't hold up as well overall.

Both have that rich, thick ribbon flavor that is obviously missing from the RE20.
Old 7th March 2006
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
rodabod's Avatar
 

The snare / rim sounds a lot better on the Coles too. The other sounds a bit dead or inarticulate in comparison.
Old 7th March 2006
  #27
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

Its amazing how well a $265 mic sounds against a $1250 mic.

I often use one of my 23C's as a side mic in M/S. and my other 23C as a room mic, squashed with an RNLA.
Old 9th March 2006
  #28
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Dog_Chao_Chao's Avatar
 

How much close are the 2 T-Bone ribbon mics from the Shinybox 23c? Are they the same thing? Or almost?
Old 13th March 2006
  #29
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timmcallister's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog_Chao_Chao
How much close are the 2 T-Bone ribbon mics from the Shinybox 23c? Are they the same thing? Or almost?

Obviously - Jon offers transformer upgrades to the shinybox ribbons (Cinemag and Lundahl ). I don't know if the TBones can be had with these upgrades.

The upgraded transformers will sound a bit different.
Old 13th March 2006
  #30
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

he also has the fixed cable removed on ShinyBox mics. Replaced with a (custom machined, i believe) XLR jack that is raised along the back of the mic to allow easier maneuverability/placement with the yoke.

and once you take into account transformer options...
in all, its a better product.
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