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What's the best way to hook up a mix buss comp?
Old 27th February 2006
  #1
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

What's the best way to hook up a mix buss comp?

I've mainly been doing tracking at my place, but I wanted to start doing some mixing so I was going to take a stab at getting some mix buss compression going, but I'm not sure how exactly to hook it up. I'm mixing on my Venice out of PT's and then recording the mix back into PT's.

Would I put the compressor between the master output of the console and PT's... if so, how would I monitor that exactly? If I try to listen on the channel that I'm recording the mix to, it just creates a feedback loop... would I patch the comp into the master insert instead? If that's the case, then I'm completely confused on how to wire up the TRS cables and the patchbay to do send/return into whichever comp I pick. I should just stick to playing guitar... these stuff is so confusing and overwhelming sometimes. Thanks.
Old 27th February 2006
  #2
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

Anyone?
Old 27th February 2006
  #3
Gear Nut
 
ResonantFilter's Avatar
 

Does your Venice have an insert point on the Mix Buss?

If so, insert bus comp there and monitor as normal.
Old 27th February 2006
  #4
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gainreduction's Avatar
 

Another option is to take the master out from your console in to the comp and return it to a 2trk input on your console. Split that signal to your PT inputs aswell. Then you have an A/B-ing possibility aswell. Assuming your console has a 2trk - input.
Old 27th February 2006
  #5
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el cochino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction
Another option is to take the master out from your console in to the comp and return it to a 2trk input on your console. Split that signal to your PT inputs aswell. Then you have an A/B-ing possibility aswell. Assuming your console has a 2trk - input.
Yep, it has a tape input and that's exactly how I'm doing it, too.
Old 27th February 2006
  #6
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 

I always -- ALWAYS-- use the insert points on the L/R buss so the meters reflect the final output, and use the B output to monitor levels without the insert, but it is secondary to the MAIN output.

YMMV- cheers!
Old 27th February 2006
  #7
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

Sorry to sound like such a non-techie newbie, but I have no idea how to wire the inserts to allow me to patch the compressor in. I'm a musician first, engineer second. I really want to learn this stuff so I don't have to ask these kind of questions in the future. Anyway, here goes:

Inserts are send/return TRS jacks, correct? So to wire that out of the patchbay, I'd need two points, Master Insert L and R. OK, I'm good so far. BUT, the compressor has four points on the patch bay, IN L and R plus OUT L and R. How does that work? The only solution I see is to get 2 TRS to XLR male + female cables and hardwire the compressor to the mix buss inserts... that's no fun at all. What if I want to use the compressor during tracking? I don't want to have to repatch it everytime. Could someone please enlighten my non-techie brain? Thanks a bunch.
Old 27th February 2006
  #8
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heathen's Avatar
 

You have got it right and yes thats why it's called patching,so yes you will have to repatch everytime you want to use your comp for other things.You need a patchbay,this will make repatching things easier.Also with a patchbay you can put all of your line inputs and inserts there too,so no more messing around behind your console.You'll get it.
Old 27th February 2006
  #9
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

You need a pair of INSERT CABLES. You can use 1/4" TRS to XLR like this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IPMB2XF3/

or 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TS like this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IPBQ2Q20/

DP
Old 28th February 2006
  #10
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

No, I understand the concept of patching At least I hope I do considering that I have three patchbays. I'm just confused on how you'd wire up the back of the patchbay, or better yet, use my new DSUB patchbay that I'm getting to go from 2 TRS send/returns for the Master Ins. L-R (which I'm assuming would take up two patchpoints like all my other TRS ones) into 4 XLR's (2 input and 2 output). Am I making any sense? Or better yet, if I go from one piece of gear that has XLR connectors on the back to another piece of gear that has TRS jacks, I just patch one point to the other... but for the inserts, it has a send and return coming from one plug... do I have to split that out onto two patch points instead one even though there's only one cable? It's so confusing it makes my brain hurt.

Basically, how the hell do you wire an insert cable into a patchbay? Can I get DSUB's order have insert cables on them? Thanks.
Old 28th February 2006
  #11
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by heathen
You have got it right and yes thats why it's called patching,so yes you will have to repatch everytime you want to use your comp for other things.You need a patchbay,this will make repatching things easier.Also with a patchbay you can put all of your line inputs and inserts there too,so no more messing around behind your console.You'll get it.
When I said repatch it everytime, I meant from the rear of the compressor, not the patchbay. I was saying I hope I didn't have to unplug my comp from the patchbay and plug it directly into the console with an insert cable everytime I wanted to use it as a mix buss comp. Sorry for the confusion. Basically, I just need to learn how to wire inserts in the patchbay.
Old 28th February 2006
  #12
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 

what kind of patchbay do you have? Do you know if you're using 1/4" or TT? Is your console's insert buss in the patch bay? If not, you need insert cables that are single point, Tip-send, sleeve-return at the console side. What that means is a single insert point at the console but TWO wires at the patchbay or compressor, unless you are using an FMR RNC or RNLA comp which uses TRS-TRS plugs straight out of the console into the comp.

Does this make sense?
Old 28th February 2006
  #13
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The way a lot of people do it is to feed the main output from your console to the compressor...go out of the compressor to a stereo track in your DAW...come out of the DAW thru a pair of ouputs not being used by any of the tracks in the session and feed that to another source input on your board (2 track or whatever). Monitor that..this way you know what your mix will sound like as long as the final d/a is good.
Basically you're using your DAW as a 2 track deck as well as a multitrack...
Old 28th February 2006
  #14
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

Aha, I think I understand your question. You want to wire up the console's LR Main inserts to the patchbay, and wire up the compressor I/O to the patchbay, so that you're not hardwiring them together, and neither are you draping long ugly TRS insert "Y" cables from the console to the patchbay & constantly plugging & unplugging these from the console, right?

Connect TRS - to - 1/4" insert cables from the console to the REAR of the patchbay. These will appear as FOUR 1/4" positions on the front of the patchbay, two upper, two lower. For example, if located in patchbay positions 17 & 18:

(upper row) >>> #17 Insert send L #18 Insert Send R
(lower row) >>> #17 Insert Retn L # 18 Insert Retn R

These should be NORMALLED jacks on the patchbay, so when you don't have anything inserted into them, the upper row is connected to the lower row, basically just like a pair of jumper wires from the sends to the returns.

Then, when you want to insert the compressor or anything else, you connect short patchcords from the #17 & #18 upper row jacks (sends) to the input jacks of some other gear located elsewhere on the patchbay, then from the outputs of that gear, to the #17 & #18 LOWER jacks (returns).

DP
Old 28th February 2006
  #15
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

So, if I ordered DSUBS for my new Isopatch patchbay that I'm getting, should I just tell the guys at Redco that I want to use four of the patchpoints for the master inserts and they'll know what to do? Thanks again for all you answers. Dave, you were right on with what I'm trying to do... I just don't know HOW to do it! I'm terrible at soldering which is one of the main reasons I'm going with the DSUB bay.
Old 28th February 2006
  #16
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen
what kind of patchbay do you have? Do you know if you're using 1/4" or TT? Is your console's insert buss in the patch bay? If not, you need insert cables that are single point, Tip-send, sleeve-return at the console side. What that means is a single insert point at the console but TWO wires at the patchbay or compressor, unless you are using an FMR RNC or RNLA comp which uses TRS-TRS plugs straight out of the console into the comp.

Does this make sense?
It's a TT bay. No, the insert is not in the patchbay. I understand the concept, but I just have no idea how to wire it into the patchbay. I think I'll just get it on my DSUB.
Old 28th February 2006
  #17
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobby12
So, if I ordered DSUBS for my new Isopatch patchbay that I'm getting, should I just tell the guys at Redco that I want to use four of the patchpoints for the master inserts and they'll know what to do? Thanks again for all you answers. Dave, you were right on with what I'm trying to do... I just don't know HOW to do it! I'm terrible at soldering which is one of the main reasons I'm going with the DSUB bay.
Typically, when dsubs are used for multichannel audio, the other end of the Dsub snake has a 'fan out' to a bunch of XLR or 1/4 connectors on the ends of short cables, right? (unless you're hardwiring it, or making a custom Dsub to ELCO or something like that). These fan out connectors would typically be connected to jacks on the back of the console to things like all of your Aux sends and FX returns. So just get a couple of short insert "Y" cables (instead of long ones going to the back of the patchbay), connect these at the rear of the console at the LR Main insert jacks, and connect four of the fan out connectors to the insert "Y"s.

The point is, the LR main inserts are no different than any other signal going back & forth between the console & the patchbay, and you don't need to wire them any differently than the way you are wiring any of the other signals.

DP
Old 28th February 2006
  #18
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Matt Grondin's Avatar
 

Thanks Dave... I feel ******** sometimes. How come I can figure out how to play guitar, keys, drums, etc. and run computers to record bands in my studio and light shows at our club, but I can't figure out some basic electronics. I think it may be one of those things that once someone shows me one time, I'll never forget. Later.
Old 28th February 2006
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobby12
Thanks Dave... I feel ******** sometimes. How come I can figure out how to play guitar, keys, drums, etc. and run computers to record bands in my studio and light shows at our club, but I can't figure out some basic electronics. I think it may be one of those things that once someone shows me one time, I'll never forget. Later.
dont feel bad man, i have 3 of them sitting right in front of me disconnected, this thread is helpful for those of us feeling too goofy to ask for help
Old 9th March 2006
  #20
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goldphinga's Avatar
 

okay. So what would i do?

I have urei 1178 (stereo so it has 2 xlr ins for each channel and 2 xlr outs for each channel) that i want to connect to my amek bc3 so i can use the comp on a stereo mix and track through it into logic via the bc3. Should it go on a bus using the postfade send/returns or should i use a patchbay?

I also have a mono dbx 160 that i want to be able to use on any channel.whats the best and most flexible way to incorporate this unit?

Thanks!

Another confused slut!
Old 9th March 2006
  #21
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lionheart's Avatar
I have a question about almost the same thing?!? :-)

My Tascam M3500 console can be a little noisy, but is there a way to get rid of the noise.. by
either putting a gate on the main bus insert, og what kind of gear would be helpfull to get rid of the noise? I tried the Behringer Ultramizer and it worked well for getting rid og the noise.. but it kinda like gated the sound to much:(

Br
Oyvind
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