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Mixing a drum kick with an electro kick
Old 27th April 2011
  #1
Lives for gear
Mixing a drum kick with an electro kick

Hello, I have to mix an acoustic drum with an electronic kick, now I'm aligning the drum and then I'll add the electronic kick, which is sort of 707/909 if I'm not mistaken

Now, if I play them together I hear a big flam between the two, and I'd like to know how do you treat them usually

I thought I could lowpass the electro kick so I don't hear the double click of the two kick's attack or I could trigger the kick using the electro kick

But, honestly, from a certain point of view I'd like to have the electro kick tight and straight on the grid, to have that electronic feel even thought is a indie rock/funk tune

That's why I'm aligning the real drum, so, I hope, to preserve a bit of the feel, but having the drum more in time (I'm aligning the drum with a tolerance of around 10ms)

Are there other approach in mixing an acoustic kick/drum with an electronic one?

Thanks
Old 27th April 2011
  #2
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why??
Old 27th April 2011
  #3
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why what?
Old 27th April 2011
  #4
Gear Addict
 
David Watts's Avatar
 

using Pro Tools? tab to transient...
Old 27th April 2011
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Find the frequencies thats causing the flam and knock them out on the drum you want less impact with. As for the timing - i would say to trigger both kicks at the same time - obviously keeping an eye on the phasing - you could also try phase inverting the acoustic drum.
Old 27th April 2011
  #6
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AcoosticZoo's Avatar
Simple, Take the ambience from the acoustic kick and use the punch from the electro KICK.

Theory/philosophy:
It's like blending room mics vs DI/close mic with drums.

Electro = Direct sound/Close miced
Acoustic = adds ambience.

Regards

Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
Old 27th April 2011
  #7
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thank you all, AcousticZoo, very good explanation :P
Old 27th April 2011
  #8
Gear Addict
 

You say to within a 10ms tolerance. Thats enough to hear a flam between the kicks. With the drum align software, can you group all the drum tracks together and stretch them all, but use the live kick track as the reference? that way you should be able to keep the feel of the live drums, but still lock the kicks to the grid so the electro kick will sit tight?
Old 27th April 2011
  #9
Lives for gear
Well, I'm aligning kick and snare (the drum is grouped, I just use kick and snare close mic tracks as a reference for the all kit) with 10ms of tolerance to preserve the drum feeling

Then I'll see (hear) if the acoustic drum will sound ok with the electro, if not, I will trigger the kick and snare with the electro kick and snare, using sample replacer

Then I'll export the sample replacer track and I'll check every beat, because often I found out these kind of software miss some hit or there are some small delay that causes phase issues (I don't use them often)
Old 27th April 2011
  #10
Gear Addict
 

I did this on a recent recording of my band. We added the 909 after the fact, and while the drummer plays tight to the click, a bit of editing was necessary just to clean up the flams. With the hat- a lot of 16th note sections, cymbal and tom work in the song, it wasn't necessary to do more than nudge the quarter notes to line up with the programmed loop. I did this visually in Logic. Tedious, but it worked and kept a bit of live drum feel in it when necessary. We also triggered a bitcrushed tom sample off the rack tom in the verse. Between that and the interaction of the live versus programmed drums on the off beats, it managed to create a cool groove.
Old 27th April 2011
  #11
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giraffe's Avatar
 

you're going to have to align them by hand. no way around it.
just tab to transient, it doesn't take that long.
Old 27th April 2011
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Funny, I was just reading about Vocalign yesterday: Synchro Arts

You might find it helpful to do this, but the thing I can't wrap my head around is why you aren't using a drumagog type plug in to trigger the sampled drum from the acoustic one? That way you wouldn't have to do anything by hand. It seems the simplest way to add an electronic kick to your acoustic one. It would also help keep the live feel of the track.

Ken
Old 27th April 2011
  #13
Moderator
 
toolskid's Avatar
 

aptrigga
Old 28th April 2011
  #14
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AndyFromDenver's Avatar
Fantastic advice thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
Simple, Take the ambience from the acoustic kick and use the punch from the electro KICK.

Theory/philosophy:
It's like blending room mics vs DI/close mic with drums.

Electro = Direct sound/Close miced
Acoustic = adds ambience.

Regards

Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
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