Dude. You have too much time on your hands.

Hi guys,

Jon, thanks for clarifying your reply. And the vids.

Now, I re-read my post above, I think it's clear, even though English is not my mother tongue I think it makes sense... I haven't blamed DC flowing through for creating spikes... I mentioned spikes... when you go from 0 Volts to X Volts, it's not constant, it ramps up, in the case of a spike, very fast. It can happen when you plug a cable with Phantom on into a mic and it can never happen when all connections have been made (the whole point of "Phantom" being that in a balanced system the same DCV on both conductors doesn't create any potential difference so there no DC flow - just being thorough). And, also mentioned above, some transfos, usually the cheaper kind, may or may not be happy with 48VDC being applied because of poor construction (or the presence of a ground/center tap). The one thing that IS missing from my earlier posts is that we're discussing the very rare cases where damage could follow "hot plugging". So here it is: HOT PLUGGING WILL USUALLY NOT CAUSE DAMAGE. However, I know from experience writing user guides that this is usually interpreted as "oh, it's OK then". See where I'm driving at?

Jon, I'm with you: Phantom power is not dangerous, evil, or even a problem with ribbon mics. But it's important to let users know that hot plugging is just not a good idea. Also, and this comes from the world of condenser microphones, hot plugging will send the same AC spike to the mic pre, and it will be amplified, and it can cause damage to speakers or even headphones if you're not careful, depending on mic pre gain and speaker/HP gain. When using ribbon mics we often max out our mic preamps... so hot plugging a ribbon mic could result in the above mentioned spike being amplified by 60dBs before hitting your system at line level. I got ringing ears on more than one occasion when working on condenser mics wearing headphones doing this by mistake and the gain was about 40dBs so I can imagine the pain of a 60dB amplified hot plugging spike. Yeah, I'm not the most careful guy sometimes. Anyway, back to Fetheads as this is a Fethead thread after all: if a Fethead standard will take care of any hotplugging on the mic end as there's no DC through it, you can still get that spike if you hot plug a Fethead in your mic pre with P48 already on so keep that in mind. You need Phantom power to activate the Fethead so you can't use it with a mic pre that doesn't have P48.

A bit of caution when using P48 is good but I think we have now made it clear that it's "safe when used properly".

Back to Fethead discussions (?).

So...

Has anyone tried one of those cathedral units? They're dirt cheap

yeah. they seem to work fine. I haven't done any scientific comparisons to my fetheads though.

Awesome... Thanks!

I recently acquired a Cloudlifter CL-1 and am having lots of radio interference problems. I have to move the cloudlifter around the room to find a suitable position. It doesn't like being near electronic equipment. It is also not what I would consider perfectly 'clean' 25db gain. I am using decent cables too.

I emailed support at Cloudlifter twice but have received no reply. Will try the Fethead next and hope for better results.

If anyone has a solution for me or what may be causing the issue, please let me know.

I have mine next to two different flat screen monitors and a bunch of other stuff and it's quiet... I'm guessing you've got some bad cable or a bum unit. I've never emailed CL but have phoned them a couple times... I think it's the owner that answered both times and was super helpful and friendly.

The CL is _quiter than the Fethead. Like the above poster, I think you most likely have a sub-par mic cable, or some serious RF issues in your room (very common these days).
Use a _short cable in front of the CL, and preferably a high quality one, personally I use "quad" cables, with full metal connectors, they seem to have the best rejection.
And, keep them away from "wall warts", those things induce a lot of noise. IMHO. Good luck.

I think I read on their facebook comments that the new Beesneez device has a fully balanced internal circuit, unlike the competition...could be worth looking in to.

I know, an old thread, but after reading whole through I didn't find an answer to my question.
I use several dynamic mics on acoustic sources. One of my preamps has an 150 Ohm mic input. As the pre has more than enough gain to handle it, the hiss of the pre on the settings with enough output makes it unusable.
On other preamps the same setup is dead quiet, so it is a matter of that mic pre. As I like the colour of this pre, I would like to make it usable. So I'm thinking of a Cloudlifter or FetHead.
Now comes the question nobody mentioned before. As I understand from long readings everywhere, the available additional gain from the FetHead depends on the mic pre input. With this 150 Ohm input the additional gain might be only a few dB's.
As I could find this information for the FetHead, there is nothing mentioned for the Cloudlifter. Can anybody tell me, if the additional gain delivered by the CL also depends on the Ohm factor of the pre input?
Thanks in advance for coming replies.

They all serve the same "function" and do the "Same thing," albeit with difference circuits. The input and output impedances on all of these should be similar/functional.

Seems you didn't get the question. Anyway, thanks for reply.

In short, I'm talking about the input impedance of the used mic pre having an influence on the amount of additional gain coming from the FetHead. As the circuit of the Cloudlifter is different, the question is, does the Cloudlifter deliver a stable amount of additional gain or does it also depend on the mic pre input.

Have you looked at something like the Cloudlifter Z, which let's you match the impedance of whatever mic that's connected to it?

dB

It's not about the input of the Pre Pre and the microphones in use. As some users of the Fethead mentioned and also a response of Triton Audio, the amount of additional gain is up to the input of the mic pre.
So if you use a mic pre with 3kOhm at the input for example, you'll get that full +27dB additional gain from the Fethead. If you connect the Fethead to a low mic pre input like 150 or 200 Ohm, it will only deliver maybe +3 or 4dB more gain.

Hi-

The Cloudlifter mates nicely with a 150ohm transformer load. Yes, the Cloudlifter will produce more gain at higher impedances, however, it operates at lower impedance overall compared to the Fethead. Since the Cloudlifter operates at a lower impedance overall, it is performs very well with a low impedance load. I actually prefer using the lower impedance inputs whenever possible because they are better at rejecting additional noise caused by environmental conditions such as poor electrical wiring and RF.

With the Cloudlifter, I would expect around 18-20dB of gain when plugged into a 150ohm transformer coupled input, which is plenty enough to defeat the self noise of the preamp. This may vary some, depending on the impedance of the mic and the build quality of the transformer, however, the sound is especially good when coupled to a nice low impedance input transformer and totally worth the slightly reduced gain! All gain is not necessarily equal, it’s often a question of quality over quantity.

Thanks for the question, I hope this helps!



Rodger Cloud

Many thanks, that's the answer I've been looking for. So the Cloudlifter will be my next purchase.
Have a nice weekend

I have the Triton FetHead, and its quality and function is undisputed in my view.
Cloudlifter probably also so. But will the cancelling of noise introduce any artefacts or subtle change?

Probably. Like any stage in an electronic or analog chain. Good or bad? Probably a subjective thing in pro equipement. Artefacts might be desireable or not.

A phantom source should not be carrying noise, and should be taken care of at source.
But in homestudios without the necessary clean power, and lousy soundcards, mixers etc, this feature is probably a good thing.

I suppose both are well worth trying. I also congratulate Cloudlifter with the success.
Although the professional environment don't complain about the FetHead being cloudy. It was however far worse marketed, that is for sure.

I would also line to try them side by side. They might be wheighed against eachother or come in handy for different tasks.

Good question in this thread. Hope people who have both will chime in.

I have a pair of Triton Fetheads which I use with a stereo ribbon microphone. I really like them because they plug directly into the microphone XLRs, so the amplification happens before the signal gets sent down any cable. There is absolutely no way I would be using ribbon mics without these devices.

I cannot comment on them versus the Cloudlifter, but I notice on the spectral display that the Fetheads produce a faint oscillation / band of noise at around 25khz.

CAn you send a screenshot to Triton Audio with a short description of your setup? They will be interested.

I didn't find that when I tested them on the Audio Precision analyzer. I did find connector issues, it was easy to create noise by moving the Fethead.

Each added about a db of noise. The s/n ratio was bested by a very low noise mic preamp so some of those preamp designs will do better without those devices in line.

My CL-z is the secret weapon in my studio. Besides boosting the level of my low output dynamics and ribbons, it lets me fine tune the low end response. Dialing in the ideal input impedance eliminates the phase artifacts inherent in EQ — once you hear the difference, you get hooked. If you’ve never used a ribbon on an upright bass, you don’t what you’re missing and this makes finicky vintage mics behave. I have a deep bass voice and typical broadcast dynamics turn my voice to mud. Dialing in the optimum impedance tames the proximity effect — if the bed has a lot of bass and kick, the high pass filter on the CL-z lets me sit better over the track with the flick of a switch.

Since the recommendation is to have the Cloudlifter close to the mic, there’s a product that I’d like to see. It would be a bracket that lets me attach mine to the mic stand when I do remote recording.

What a cool product!

Thanks for the post, I hadn't seen the CL-Z yet, now it's on my radar.

Yep, so far so good. Tried on the Coles 4038. Not a scientific test, but they sound neutral and do the job.

Coles 4038/4072 in the photo is on a Hola! mic stand which cost $32.48 each when bought in 2-packs. Best cheap music stand comparable to K&M.

I need to remember to use a red-colored mic cable, not an orange-colored one, in order to keep with the theme of the wine red Yahama Recording Customs and now the Cathedral Pipes Durham MKII in the photo.

Thanks for the heads-up on the Hola! mic stands.

I have my mic cables custom made by Markertek in any of 8 colors. I use the Canaré star quad wire because I’m in a very noisy part of the world, electrically. You don’t need trained ears to hear the advantages, it’s that obvious when A/B’d against any balanced wire (and a lot less expensive than shielding my rooms with mu-metal). Anyway, it costs no more to have them done that way and a whole lot less than boutique cables that can’t offer the same noise rejection.