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Should Drums be time alligned?
Old 4th March 2011
  #31
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Jesse Miller's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
If you get the recording part right, a big fat NO.

If you're struggling with a poorly recorded track, anything goes.
thumbsup
Old 4th March 2011
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post
100% to the grid has disadvantages, but a loose drummer is even worse
That's how I see it too.

In order of worst sounding to best sounding (for most productions):
*bad drummer
*bad drummer aligned to the grid
*good drummer aligned to the grid
*good drummer

Quantization can not only pull crap up towards mediocrity, it can also push gold down into mediocrity.
Old 4th March 2011
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Turned out that the overhead tracks were several milliseconds behind the close miked drums, some phase conflicts too.
I can't think of a single instance where the overheads naturally would be lined up with the close mics. They're farther away. The sound takes longer to hit them. It's physics.
Old 5th March 2011
  #34
I only use a sample delay plug to delay the earlier hit on kick and snare, when using two kick mics and top/bottom snare. Everything else stays where it is.

I assume that is what op was talking about. **** the grid, go home and practice!
Old 6th March 2011
  #35
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GuitarRuss's Avatar
 

This is awesome - two completely different discussions happening at the same time! To be fair - the OP's question is vague enough to be read either way.

I read it the same way Ubik did - that it's a question of phase coherence, which had some great responses on that topic.

I read on another thread about an engineer plugging a metronome into the guitar amp input and recording it so that he could phase align the close mic and distant mic on the guitar cab later. He was recording Mike Stern, I believe, so he knew what he was doing. Nudging tracks forward or backward... if it sounds better, it sounds better! If the image is improved, then great, if not, then nothing lost except a bit of time.

The parallel conversation seems composed mostly of negative comments about rhythm fixing software like Groove Detective.
Old 6th March 2011
  #36
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..more fun with time

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarRuss View Post
..I read on another thread about an engineer plugging a metronome into the guitar amp input and recording it so that he could phase align the close mic and distant mic on the guitar cab later.
..
Interesting, a nice clean ref point to get to equal time then.
Since we're strayed a bit here then .. Once at equal time, and with them panned, you also now have only to plug a half-to-few ms delay for a image precedence effect on either of them.
Old 6th March 2011
  #37
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarRuss View Post
.

I read on another thread about an engineer plugging a metronome into the guitar amp input and recording it so that he could phase align the close mic and distant mic on the guitar cab later. He was recording Mike Stern, I believe, so he knew what he was doing.
Well - that would only phase align for the particular dominant frequency of the metronome!!
Old 6th March 2011
  #38
I have dabbled with it, nudging room MICS forward.

I found that you can maximise snare punch but ultimately it leads you down a slippery slope of micro managing how the toms and kick cope with the disturbance of natural phase order.

I decided it was a PITA time waste and not worth doing.

I do however hold a lot of respect for getting the drum phase right at the time of recording... I don't believe that is a "fix it later" deal.
Old 7th March 2011
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Well - that would only phase align for the particular dominant frequency of the metronome!!
I read it that way a first as well. thumbsup
But now we're into where due to reflections, radiation patterns and such there can't be complete alignment at any two distances, but you can get alignment at some frequencies at any number of placements. The only diffrence here I believe is interest of what equal arrival might also bring.
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