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Waves permanently lowers prices? Dynamics Plugins
Old 3rd January 2011
  #1
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Waves permanently lowers prices?

I've been checking the Waves site for the January specials, and it now has the headline "Attractive New Pricing". From what I can see, everything is now the equivalent of what it was with the 40% off special. These new prices also seem to be already reflected on the Sweetwater site.

It seems to me like this is permanent. I don't know if that means the specials from now on won't be as aggressive, but either way, I'm glad for it!

I'm guessing their 40% off special was a real eye opener and that they found the magic price point.

Any thoughts on this?
Old 3rd January 2011
  #2
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Storyville's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
I've been checking the Waves site for the January specials, and it now has the headline "Attractive New Pricing". From what I can see, everything is now the equivalent of what it was with the 40% off special. These new prices also seem to be already reflected on the Sweetwater site.

It seems to me like this is permanent. I don't know if that means the specials from now on won't be as aggressive, but either way, I'm glad for it!

I'm guessing their 40% off special was a real eye opener and that they found the magic price point.

Any thoughts on this?

I think it's time for me to revisit the Waves site and check the prices on a few of the plugs I've been interested in.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Both the Ilok dongle and the Protools hardware dongle were cracked and distributed about 6 months or more ago. Now Protools is 9 is being released as hardware independent and Waves is lowering their prices.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancebug View Post
Both the Ilok dongle and the Protools hardware dongle were cracked and distributed about 6 months or more ago. Now Protools is 9 is being released as hardware independent and Waves is lowering their prices.
Interesting... I suppose everyone can agree that Protools going native and Waves lowering their prices sound good. In fact fantastic to some. So crackers did cause something good?
Old 3rd January 2011
  #5
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgurYildirim View Post
So crackers did cause something good?
Mmmmmm. I love crackers n cheese. Waves? Not so much.
hehheh
Old 3rd January 2011
  #6
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgurYildirim View Post
Interesting... I suppose everyone can agree that Protools going native and Waves lowering their prices sound good. In fact fantastic to some. So crackers did cause something good?
I don't think the "crackers n hackers" had anything to do with it. Not a target market.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #7
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
I hope they also lowered WUP!!!
Old 3rd January 2011
  #8
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Yes, Waves has permanently lowered prices on all of their bundles... pretty dramatically, too... effective Jan 1st.

They also have allowed for purchasing of individual plugins.. Like the SSL E channel for instance, etc. Although, it's still a better buy to purchase the bundle.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #9
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blim's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
I hope they also lowered WUP!!!
Waves could lower their prices by 80 percent, and still generate profits from WUP. WUP ain't getting lowered anytime soon. It's how they make their money.

When is the last time Waves had an interesting new plug, anyway? The CLA thing is the only time in the last two or three years they've gotten something new on the market that's generated any real interest.

Meanwhile arch-rival UAD continues to produce great plugs (Studer, Fatso, Massive Passive, etc.), albeit tied to a ridiculously overpriced and often buggy dongle that sometimes only gives the user a handful of instances.

I own plugs by both Waves and UAD, but it's pretty darn clear that unless Waves starts innovating and stops pissing people off with WUP, and UAD starts giving us more value per dongle, the future is going to lie with upstarts like Slate Digital, Softube, and a growing list of others.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #10
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So how do all of you who paid full price for these plugs feel?

Plugged?

Bend over. You know you love a good WUPPING!

Obviously, their market share was tanking and tanking fast so now they're scrambling to move the ship off the iceberg. I say let them sink. They deserve it.



Cheers,
--
Don
Old 3rd January 2011
  #11
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blim View Post
I own plugs by both Waves and UAD, but it's pretty darn clear that unless Waves starts innovating and stops pissing people off with WUP, and UAD starts giving us more value per dongle, the future is going to lie with upstarts like Slate Digital, Softube, and a growing list of others.
The only people who get pissed off by WUP, are the people who still don't understand it.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #12
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plop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
The only people who get pissed off by WUP, are the people who still don't understand it.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #13
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plop View Post
Old 3rd January 2011
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Mmmmmm. I love crackers n cheese. Waves? Not so much.
heh
Old 3rd January 2011
  #15
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
The only people who get pissed off by WUP, are the people who still don't understand it.
I guess there's a lot of those. Maybe a class on being WUPPED is in order. hehheh
Old 3rd January 2011
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
I don't think the "crackers n hackers" had anything to do with it. Not a target market.
I would disagree. I think (and know) there is a huge part of the Waves target market who would have bought 1 or 2 packs but instead downloaded the whole lot.

I think to think that Waves only target market in the modern day of loads of independent mixing and mastering services is major studios who need to be seen to be legit, you have not kept a very close eye on the development of the recording industry.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #17
This place is infested by Waves haters. Who, interestingly, don't seem to get the irony that their attitude towards Waves is the same attitude that they see in their own customers, who don't seem to understand what it takes to maintain a high quality, professional company and product. You see so many people complaining one day about people who won't spend a penny to get a well done recording made at a studio with real overhead and who instead go to a guy in his bedroom; and, the next day they are complaining about having to spend a penny to buy software and arguing that a couple guys in a bedroom is where they will take their business.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #18
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idylldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
This place is infested by Waves haters. Who, interestingly, don't seem to get the irony that their attitude towards Waves is the same attitude that they see in their own customers, who don't seem to understand what it takes to maintain a high quality, professional company and product. You see so many people complaining one day about people who won't spend a penny to get a well done recording made at a studio with real overhead and who instead go to a guy in his bedroom; and, the next day they are complaining about having to spend a penny to buy software and arguing that a couple guys in a bedroom is where they will take their business.
Really? Great generalization. I don't use ONE plug-in and yet I remain as busy as I want to be.

Coincidence?

I think not.

Cheers,
--
Don
Old 3rd January 2011
  #19
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I guess there's a lot of those. Maybe a class on being WUPPED is in order. hehheh
Yes, there are.... A lot of it is tied to the way they fumbled it in the beginning charging people ridiculous prices, and not clearly explaining what it was.

All the hatred I see is tied to the past, and a lack of understanding on what it is now.

First let's say what it is... IT IS AN OPTIONAL PROGRAM!


Let's say it again for clarity and effect.

IT IS AN OPTIONAL PROGRAM!


Now... What is WUP beyond an optional program?

WUP is nothing more than an upgrade tool for nearly all Waves users. You buy it whenever a new product is included in a bundle you own or your DAW/ OS mandates a required upgrade (like the next major OS upgrade,etc).

It's essentially no different than purchasing an upgrade from any other software developer. And, that upgrade never costs more than $200 (typical charge for a Mercury owner).
Old 3rd January 2011
  #20
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idylldon View Post
Really? Great generalization. I don't use ONE plug-in and yet I remain as busy as I want to be.

Coincidence?

I think not.

Cheers,
--
Don
Just out of curiosity... How does a working engineer pull off not using any plugins in 2011?
Old 3rd January 2011
  #21
Gear Head
 
plop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
This place is infested by Waves haters. Who, interestingly, don't seem to get the irony that their attitude towards Waves is the same attitude that they see in their own customers, who don't seem to understand what it takes to maintain a high quality, professional company and product. You see so many people complaining one day about people who won't spend a penny to get a well done recording made at a studio with real overhead and who instead go to a guy in his bedroom; and, the next day they are complaining about having to spend a penny to buy software and arguing that a couple guys in a bedroom is where they will take their business.
Are you saying Waves = Pro? Or, what, exactly, are you saying?

Fact is that 15 years ago Waves was arguably the best, but within the last several years have fallen farther and farther behind. They now look like bloated also-rans, with the most clueless public relations paradigm in the world.

I'm getting tired of people who have invested thousands of dollars on Waves plugs coming on this forum to defend the indefensible, if for no other reason than they don't want to admit that all that money could have been better spent elsewhere.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #22
I don't use any Waves plugins, so I'm obviously not defending my own purchase. They sell high quality plugins for a fraction of the price that many other companies (who never get any of this type of crap) sell theirs for. Their per-plugin prices in their bundles are typically at the same level as Stillwell's.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #23
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idylldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Just out of curiosity... As a working engineer, how do you pull off not using any plugins in 2011?
Easy. It's all outboard and I mix through a console. I do use software for editing (PT, Wavelab, etc.), but I don't use plugs. Haven't really found the need for it yet, but I'm sure there'll be some in my future. The times are a changin' and I guess I'm just a bit reluctant to change with them so far. I guess I'm just an old fart who is stuck in his old ways.

I really don't have anything against the idea of plugs per se, but I do think Waves initial WUP policy was one of the biggest f**ckups since Dunkirk. What were they thinking?

Cheers,
--
Don
Old 3rd January 2011
  #24
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plop View Post
Fact is that 15 years ago Waves was arguably the best, but within the last several years have fallen farther and farther behind. They now look like bloated also-rans, with the most clueless public relations paradigm in the world.
In what respect have they fallen behind?
Old 3rd January 2011
  #25
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post

Now... What is WUP beyond an optional program?

WUP is nothing more than an upgrade tool for nearly all Waves users. You buy it whenever a new product is included in a bundle you own or your DAW/ OS mandates a required upgrade (like the next major OS upgrade,etc).

It's essentially no different than purchasing an upgrade from any other software developer. And, that upgrade never costs more than $200 (typical charge for a Mercury owner).
Sorry I understand WUP.
But there is no reason why I have to pay again and again for a bundle.
For example the AU standard is the same for years but if my OS changes WUP.

So no Waves Bundle again for me:

They take my money for nothing; at least the plug ins are great yes....
But WUP over and over again is =

Waves SSL Bundle for me now 600 bought WUP = 800$ next WUp it will be 1000$ next WUP 1200$....1400$ etc...

I am not their BANKER giving credit for new development I am the customer.
Let me know when UAD starts to WUP it will be the time I buy HW only.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plop View Post
Are you saying Waves = Pro? Or, what, exactly, are you saying?

Fact is that 15 years ago Waves was arguably the best, but within the last several years have fallen farther and farther behind. They now look like bloated also-rans, with the most clueless public relations paradigm in the world.

I'm getting tired of people who have invested thousands of dollars on Waves plugs coming on this forum to defend the indefensible, if for no other reason than they don't want to admit that all that money could have been better spent elsewhere.
I genuinely disagree. I have a small amount of Waves and feel that they're excellent plug-ins. I could sell them without paying a transfer fee but don't want to.

Waves are no longer a pro-only company and as this site demonstrates there are a lot of amateur hopefuls who use their products too, in the hope that better tools = better mixes = make money. I use the word 'use' as opposed to 'buy' on the grounds that, until now, I believe that many of the independent mix studios that we see on here - your '$4-5k mix room' type jobs, ARE using cracked Waves software because they can't afford to buy it, but feel that they need the software in order to remain in the industry standard of equipment.

Waves are reacting to this shift in the market whereby the modern studio is largely low-budget, home operated stuff; and that as a result of that, they need (or needED) to drastically change their prices, to fit to the new market.

That's not to suggest that Waves were selling too pricey before. Just merely that the old tactic was 'Professional Plug-ins. Expensive due to the limited audience having to pay for the technology and research investment'; and the new tactic is 'Professional Plug-ins. Less expensive due to the much bigger audience available to pay for the technology and research investment'. I think that Waves have identified a larger market, and as such have allowed a price reduction, especially at a time where they need to encourage people to BUY as opposed to download illegally.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #27
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idylldon View Post
Easy. It's all outboard and I mix through a console. I do use software for editing (PT, Wavelab, etc.), but I don't use plugs. Haven't really found the need for it yet, but I'm sure there'll be some in my future. The times are a changin' and I guess I'm just a bit reluctant to change with them so far. I guess I'm just an old fart who is stuck in his old ways.
It's good to hear that some people still record this way... I haven't run into someone like yourself in years. It's fascinating to ponder how quickly things changed. As little as ten years ago your process was the norm. Now, it's a rarity.

Quote:
I really don't have anything against the idea of plugs per se, but I do think Waves initial WUP policy was one of the biggest f**ckups since Dunkirk. What were they thinking?
Of course it was, and it still haunts them to this day.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #28
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Sorry I understand WUP.
But there is no reason why I have to pay again and again for a bundle.
For example the AU standard is the same for years but if my OS changes WUP.

So no Waves Bundle again for me:

They take my money for nothing; at least the plug ins are great yes....
But WUP over and over again is =

Waves SSL Bundle for me now 600 bought WUP = 800$ next WUp it will be 1000$ next WUP 1200$....1400$ etc...

I am not their BANKER giving credit for new development I am the customer.
Let me know when UAD starts to WUP it will be the time I buy HW only.
Apparently... you don't understand it.

If you didn't have a major OS upgrade, or DAW change that required a new update... then why did you have to buy WUP exactly?

And, WUP on the SSL bundle is not $200.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Sorry I understand WUP.
But there is no reason why I have to pay again and again for a bundle.
For example the AU standard is the same for years but if my OS changes WUP.

So no Waves Bundle again for me:

They take my money for nothing; at least the plug ins are great yes....
But WUP over and over again is =

Waves SSL Bundle for me now 600 bought WUP = 800$ next WUp it will be 1000$ next WUP 1200$....1400$ etc...

I am not their BANKER giving credit for new development I am the customer.
Let me know when UAD starts to WUP it will be the time I buy HW only.
Then don't buy it you miserable bore.

Since Leopard / Pro Tools 8 I haven't changed my system so I have no need for WUP because nothing's changing.

Waves give you 2 options. You can either change things at your end with complete freedom, but by doing so, you have to pay them for them to keep in check with that; or you can keep things the same at your end and not have to pay them as they're already in check.

I don't understand why people feel this is an unfair principle.

If I sell you a petrol engine then you decide you want to go with a diesel fuel tank, is it unfair for me to ask you to give me more money to replace it with a diesel engine?
Old 3rd January 2011
  #30
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
The only people who get pissed off by WUP, are the people who still don't understand it.
I agree. Most of the Waves bashers are people who have never "owned" their plugs. I say "owned" because you never really own any software unless you are staying with that original version until you kick the can. Probably 99.9% of people are upgrading every 3-4 years so you should just consider all your software gear a lease. Sort of like leasing a car. You pay your monthly fee (in Waves case a WUP) and have the peace of mind knowing that your car is pretty new and should be problem free for the term of the lease. This is software folks.
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