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Jolly Mod or JJ Audio Condenser Microphones
Old 2nd January 2011
  #31
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idylldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
"I can't give you my address, because I'm having lunch with my wife."
Well, at least he didn't say, "I'm having lunch with your wife." Give the man some credit.

Cheers,
--
Don
Old 2nd January 2011
  #32
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
When I see a GS poster asking about the Joly K47h capsule in reference to "warmth" I will continue to voice my opinion. It's nothing personal.
lol Dude, there are half a dozen mics with MJ's K47 capsule in them. If you wanted a more U87 sound, you should have chosen the NT1a mod. Comparing a transformerless mic to a tube or transformer coupled mic is rediculous, and shows little regard towards fairness on your part - especially since you lump them all into one pile of brittle, harsh mediocrity while never even having used any of the OTHER mics you refer to. You have posted that you in fact DO have an agenda in regards to MJ's products. No need to disguise it or try to validate it - it's well documented now. I again suggest that you return the mic for another. I'm sure MJ will accomodate your needs and get you something that fits your esthetic & applications better. What kind of customer service is that??

Thanks for the explanation though. thumbsup Appreciated.


Oh, BTW, how does "3D" become listener fatigue. That one blows right past me. That's what we're all searching for I think.....


Oh, and if you don't want to send it back for a different mic, try a TRANSFORMER coupled pre or tube pre. Your negative impressions may change radically in a matter of moments.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #33
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by idylldon View Post
Well, at least he didn't say, "I'm having lunch with your wife." Give the man some credit.

Cheers,
--
Don

heh heh heh
Old 2nd January 2011
  #34
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

In the interest of providing both sides of the story I'd like to offer the following...

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
It's called confirmation bias. We spend money on a new product and we automatically like it, because if we don't, we just wasted our money. Plus, Michael asked me to post a review on his website, since I was one of the first customers to buy the MJE-K47h. I was still in the "honeymoon" phase with the mic, enthralled with the "3D" aspect of the sound ...
I personally don't agree with the "we" part of your opinion regarding 'confirmation bias'. Perhaps "you" experience this bias problem and can't trust your own first impressions. Or perhaps your tastes in mics change over time. Further, I've checked the email history between us and I never asked you post a review on my site. And no, you were not one of the first purchasers of the MJE-K47H. Your purchase came some seven months and many units after the K47H's introduction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
As you have mentioned, it takes a while to get to know a mic. I got my MJE-K47h in Dec of '09. In May of '10, I had the opportunity to put the mic up next to a U87ai. I was disheartened to discover that the K47h did not sound as smooth and rich as the Neumann, (even though the ai version of the U87 is considered "harsh" by many people.) I emailed MJ about this. He was in the middle of moving and couldn't access my order, but he did suggest that I listen to the latest shoot out files on his website, the same shoot out files you mention in your posts.
<DELETED BY MODERATOR>

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
In other words, regardless of what my mic sounded like, it was irrelevant because of the shoot out files on the Oktavamod website.
I did not suggest what you were hearing was irrelevent - I asked you to clarify your recording chain for me. Then pointed you toward some professionally recorded samples of the MJE-K47H capsule head next to some classic mics including a '70's U 87. So that you could compare these MJE-K47H sound files with your own and give me your impressions.

Once again Duncan please stop the inaccurate paraphrasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post

If I had encountered this scenario with JJ Audio, or Charter Oaks, they would have asked me to ship the mic back for further tweaking. MJ did not ask me to ship the mic back for tweaking, so in this respect, MJ's customer service was disappointing.
That is faulty logic leading to a false conclusion Duncan. I took immediate steps with you. I asked for clarification about your recording chain. Then I told you where you could hear some other MJE-K47H sound samples. My practice is to try and understand what the client is hearing and why. Troubleshoot immediately by email then arrange for a new mic if need be. But...

...you never replied to email to you of May 25! I asked you a question about your mic body and you didn't respond. If you had gotten back to me I would have done all of the following: 1) first sent you a new mic, then 2) requested you send your mic back for evaluation and 3) if the 2nd mic failed to please you I would have refunded your purchase price immedietly and paid for all the shipping. But you never got back to me. It wasn't until you went on a campaign of public complaining did see I see any further comments from you about your mic. You never addressed my questions nor discussed the matter privately.

And when I say I was in the middle of move that is not just a figure of speach. My entire home and shop was packed up and in transit on May 24 and 25. I managed to get your email and respond to it from a public access web cafe while all of my records and documentation of your order were in transit. I could not ship nor receive any mics for a week!
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post

When I see a GS poster asking about the Joly K47h capsule in reference to "warmth" I will continue to voice my opinion. It's nothing personal. It's just a desire to impart what I've learned after a year of trying to find uses for the mic. It's a very unpleasant feeling when you discover the lead vocal just isn't working in the mix, and there's no way to EQ it into submission, and it's too late to bring back the talent to re-sing the song on a different mic. I don't wish that fate on anybody.
Duncan, your revised opinion about the MJE-K47H is so far afield from what every other satisfied user reports that I am going to respectfully request two things: 1.) Please stop talking about the MJE-K47H in the terms you have been because your comments are misleading the very same "newbies" you're so concerned about protecting. 2). Please send your mic back to me immediately and I will issue a full refund of your purchase price. If you fail to do this I will assume you find the K47H to be a fair value and you wish to keep it. But if you do keep it, please refrain from the libelous and misleading comments.

Finally, I also need to mention that some time after purchasing a modified Oktava MK-105 LDC from me 2007 you complained about a newly discovered 3kHz harshness etc (I guess this would also be after the honeymoon period) and wanted to know about possible changes. I stood by the product then, offered to make you happy, but at that time as well you decided to keep the mic and I never heard any further on this subject from you.

Duncan, I have over 3000 clients earned the old fashioned way - by individual, multiple conversations. One does not grow a word-of-mouth business on the backs of disappointed clients.Your belated, post-honeymoon, negative response to my work - and your public display of it - (apparently written during the honeymoon phase with your new mic modder) is a first in my book of business. Your opinions and public expression of them ring hollow when compared to your own earlier reviews of the MJE-K47H here and at OktavaMod-shop.com and when they're compared to any of the 350+ positive user reviews posted to my site. Your current and revised opinion regarding the K47H capsule head has very little credibility.

Your public tirades have gone on long enough - what has it been, 26 posts from you with the same negative, nonsensical user impressions and erroneous paraphrasing that borders on libel? Please cease your misleading comments and return the mic you purchased for a full refund.

My last words concerning this saga you've created are your own comparing the K47H to a U 87.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post

I just got my Oktavamod MJE-K47H in the mail today, and this is one LDC with a ridiculously big sound. It's Michael's recreation of a U47, but with more air and definition. You screw the capsule head assembly onto a common 22mm sdc body like a MXL 603 or CAD 1200. I sent him a CAD 1200 sdc for the premium electronics mod, and now I've got the most natural sounding but present mic I've ever heard. It doesn't have the big 8k bump of the U87, but it still sounds more detailed than any of my other mics.

I realize the total package comes out to double the $250 limit, but it sounds freakin' awesome. I checked it in my mic shootout file, up against a bunch of LDCs and tube mics (vocals in the context of a music track) and the lack of a s***** high end in the MJE-K47H really isn't an issue. In fact, it sounds better than anything else I own.

MJE-K47H head assembly from Oktavamod.com - $329 (limited time discount)
CAD sdc GXL1200 - $50 (at Front End Audio)
Premium electronics mod for sdc - $89
Shipping $12 each way.
total: $480

So there's my second 2 cents.

Last edited by GS moderation; 5th January 2011 at 07:50 AM..
Old 3rd January 2011
  #35
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
...Duncan, your revised opinion about the MJE-K47H is so far afield from what every other satisfied user reports that I am going to respectfully request two things: 1.) Please stop talking about the MJE-K47H in the terms you have been because your comments are misleading the very same "newbies" you're so concerned about protecting. 2). Please send your mic back to me immediately and I will issue a full refund of your purchase price. If you fail to do this I will assume you find the K47H to be a fair value and you wish to keep it. But if you do keep it, please refrain from the libelous and misleading comments.
Thanks for the offer Michael. As I mention in virtually every Joly-related thread, I do find the K47h useful on some acoustic instruments, like classical guitar, so in this respect, my comments are not libelous or misleading, they are simply an opinion based on my experience with the mic. And FYI, there have been other customers of yours who were not satisfied with you K47h mod. The fact that they don't post here does not mean they don't exist, it only means they're not motivated to join in these discussions.

On your offer of a refund, I don't believe in using a product for a year and then returning it. However, if you would like to trade my K47h/modded sdc body for a tube or transformer version of your mic, (a B-stock model that you wouldn't want to sell for cosmetic reasons) I'd be up for that. PM me and we'll work out the details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Finally, I also need to mention that some time after purchasing a modified Oktava MK-105 LDC from me 2007 you complained about a newly discovered 3kHz harshness etc (I guess this would also be after the honeymoon period) and wanted to know about possible changes. I stood by the product then, offered to make you happy, but at that time as well you decided to keep the mic and I never heard any further on this subject from you.
My problem with the MK-105 was two-fold. 1. The 3k bump in the frequency response was not representative of the frequency response graph in the Oktava catalog. If I had seen that frequency response graph with the spike at 3k, I never would have purchased a MK-105. 2. I found the 3k bump to cause listener fatigue, something you don't notice right away. While I can't find our emails from that time period, my memory gives me the impression that there was no solution to the 3k bump other than returning the mic. As I mentioned earlier, I recognize the fact that mics with peculiar frequency response can actually be useful in peculiar situations, so I try to discover what those situations might be and use the mic accordingly. I've done that with both the MK-105 and the K47h. In that respect, having access to peculiar mics gives me more versatility. That's why I accepted the mics as-is and didn't pursue an exchange or a refund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Duncan, I have over 3000 clients earned the old fashioned way - by individual, multiple conversations. One does not grow a word-of-mouth business on the backs of disappointed clients.Your belated, post-honeymoon, negative response to my work - and your public display of it - (apparently written during the honeymoon phase with your new mic modder) is a first in my book of business. Your opinions and public expression of them ring hollow when compared to your own earlier reviews of the MJE-K47H here and at OktavaMod-shop.com and when they're compared to any of the 350+ positive user reviews posted to my site. Your current and revised opinion regarding the K47H capsule head has very little credibility.
As your friend Dr Bill has said many times, it takes a while to get to know a mic. While I was in the "honeymoon phase" with my K47h, I used it on two different male baritone singers, convinced that the purported "warmth" of the K47h would compliment their harsh voices. I was wrong, as I discovered when I was mixing the tracks a month or two later. (These clients have no budget, so they only book time when they can scrape up some cash.) In retrospect, I should have shot out the K47h mic with some other contenders, but at the time, I was so convinced of the purported "warmth" that I didn't bother. That was my bad. I have since learned to put up at least two mics for a new singer. Usually, I put up 6 or 8 and together we choose what sounds best in the mix. I've done these shootouts many times since then. Your K47h was chosen only once for a lead vocal, and it wasn't my choice, it was the client - an older female singer who liked the midrange push that, to my ears, sounded harsh. I'd post that shootout, but it was copyrighted material - a violation of forum rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Your public tirades have gone on long enough - what has it been, 26 posts from you with the same negative, nonsensical user impressions and erroneous paraphrasing that borders on libel? Please cease your misleading comments and return the mic you purchased for a full refund.

My last words concerning this saga you've created are your own comparing the K47H to a U 87.
The quote you're referencing here was not inspired by a direct comparison to a U87. I was talking about the 8k boost that shows up on the U87 response graph. It wasn't until I actually got a U87ai in my studio in May of '09 that I was able to compare the mics side by side. This was the "aha" moment, when I realized how unlike a U87ai the K47h mic actually is. The other "aha" moment was when I got my modded v67g and discovered how much more like a U87ai it was than your K47h. This was disappointing, seeing as how you were marketing your K47h as an alternative to a U87 and also modding V67g's with the stock capsule, but not recommending the V67g as an alternative to the U87. All I could take away from that was that you were more interested in selling your K47h capsules than you were in offering a rich, beefy sounding mic that would compare favorably with a U87. Please understand that this is just my perception - my opinion. It is not a statement of fact. It's entirely possible that a transformer or tube version of the K47h would be more like a U87. My comments have always been limited to the transformerless MJE-K47h version that I've been using for the last year.

I do want to thank you for your candor in this matter, (although C&Ping private emails may be against forum rules.) There are indeed, two sides to every story. I see now that I could have been more communicative in our business relationship. It's just not my nature to be the "difficult" customer demanding the impossible. If I make a poor buying decision, I don't blame the retailer, I suck it up and try to make the best of the situation. In this respect, I stand by the sound clips I have posted, just as you stand by the sound clips you have posted. It's all about perception, which is different for everyone. In the interest of civility, I will attempt to be more specific about my comments regarding your MJE-k47h, and I will reiterate the fact that I've never had any problems with the actual work you perform in your shop.

One thing that would be helpful to the GS community would be a shootout comparing all three version of your K47h on the same source - the transformerless MJE-K47h, the 450 mod with your K47 capsule, the 1050 mod with your K47 capsule- so that listeners can judge which version of the mic would best suit their needs.

Peace, Brutha.
Old 5th January 2011
  #36
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall View Post
posting a couple comparison files? a violation of forum rules? copyright? who has to know where they came from?
I'll give you an example. Posting a recording of "Hard Day's Night" on this forum without getting permission from the copyright owners would be a violation of copyright laws. This action could get the owners of this forum in trouble. The mic shootout I mentioned was of a singer performing a popular song that is not yet in the pubic domain. In other words, posting it would be a violation of copyright laws, and a violation of forum rules. I try not to intentionally break forum rules, although I will admit to allowing my passion for good sound to turn me into a raving a$$hole now and then. (I'm taking steps to correct this flaw in my otherwise perfect demeanor. )
Old 25th January 2011
  #37
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rdatman's Avatar
 

I sometime wish that in addition to spell-check, there was a grammar and intelligence check function available....
Old 25th January 2011
  #38
Gear Addict
 
magnet's Avatar
 

I am loving my JJ Audio Pitbull mic. Everytime I use it, I can't believe how great it sounds and how well it takes EQ when necessary.

My entire transaction with JJ Audio was really excellent.
I can't wait to have them do some more mods for me in the near future.

I hope this helps.

Magnet
Old 12th December 2011
  #39
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guitarboy94's Avatar
 

Uncle Duncan,

I bought Joly's V67 mod and didn't care for it all. I felt the v67 sounded better on my voice before the mod. Something about the mod sounded extremely honkish and borderline harsh when pushed on my voice, sort of an excessive mid-forward sound that just didn't work for me. I sold it after a few months on ebay.
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