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Looking for a sweet Fender amp for recording.
Old 31st December 2010
  #61
Gear Addict
A Bassman is a good way to go. They aren't super expensive and sound great as a clean amp or cranked up and dirty. Lots of headroom. Really good candidates for being modded, too. You can turn the Bass channel into more of a JTM 45 type gain channel.
Old 31st December 2010
  #62
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Ron's amp sounds like an overdriven Champ speaker, but looking
behind him on the stage, the amp appears to be more Princeton or DR
sized.

I don't recognize the accurate dial layouts enough to name the amp.

It just gets me how it sits in the mix. I want THAT speaker!

Now for the BIG Fender sound that James seems to like,

Bruce Springteen and The Roots together on Jimmy Fallon
demonstrate a damn fine example of how a good Fender Twin
sits in a Big Band mix.

Old 31st December 2010
  #63
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Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

i'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the pro reverb. that amp kicks some serious tail especially when run in stereo with an AC-15 or a reeves Custom 12.
Old 31st December 2010
  #64
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Misner View Post
i'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the pro reverb. that amp kicks some serious tail especially when run in stereo with an AC-15 or a reeves Custom 12.
^^^^^^^^^^^^

A man of discriminating taste!

Welcome to Gearslutz!
Old 31st December 2010
  #65
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Surfkat's Avatar
 

Another Blackface Princeton Reverb lover here! I changed out the stock 10" speaker for a 12", that combo just sounds right to me. The amp can be clean or set for the right amount of dirt without ear splitting volume. IMHO the Super Reverb is too loud for MY studio. I had a good one and sold it, but it is a GREAT live amp a large club gig. I also have a couple of external cabinets to mix and match and the Princeton sounds cool with a 2x10 or a 2x12 cab. And that Trem on the Princeton is my fav Fender Trem.

A Blackface Deluxe Reverb would be my second choice. A Fender without the Reverb is a car without wheels.

Good luck with your search.
Old 31st December 2010
  #66
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo View Post
I've been playing around some different ones, I'm looking for a really vibrant clean sound but not ice picky. Sometimes the Twins kind of slay me, to harsh.
Twins are way too much amp for recording. 95% of it will go to waste. They are way too much for most live gigs too.

Try a Princeton Recording amp or Deluxe.

Might also look at a MusicMan 212 65 as a Fenderish alternative, those being Leo Fender copying his Fender designs.

Someone suggested a Bassman. I like the '59s, but not sure I'd call them vibrant.
Old 31st December 2010
  #67
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popmann's Avatar
Quote:
i'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the pro reverb
Ditto. I'l throw out my two cents.

Yes, I've played on actual Blackface Twin...it was a thing of beauty. The reissues of it are ball sucking shells. However, I think silverface Fenders get a bad rap--even the master volume ones sound really good to me--although, they're all different at this point. reissue BF models blow. The little guys are NOT going to have the clean headroom you say you want.

Ok...so, my actual rec is simple...because you have money, James--buy a new handwired amp. These circuits are simple child's play. There are a billion people who will wire up a great sounding and thoroughly reliable new Fender clean. And get reverb, damn it--Fender "clean" without reverb isn't Fender clean. I went with the Fralin model VVT, but I just walked around the Nashville amp show and heard a billion "Deluxey clones"--what I liked about the VVT was that it was more of a "best of THAT sound" rather than a single model cloned. And it can self bias to 18wt with 6v6 or 30 w 6L6...I go back and forth, honestly.

With less budget, Silverface Pro in good shape. It's basically a half power Twin. Get someone you trust to clean it up...recap what's needed...nice NOS tube set...


New boutique replica...or SF ProReverb. There you go. My two cents.
Old 31st December 2010
  #68
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Ron Vogel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Twins are way too much amp for recording. 95% of it will go to waste. They are way too much for most live gigs too.

Try a Princeton Recording amp or Deluxe.

Might also look at a MusicMan 212 65 as a Fenderish alternative, those being Leo Fender copying his Fender designs.

Someone suggested a Bassman. I like the '59s, but not sure I'd call them vibrant.
Ehh, I've had a Princeton Recording, a RI Princeton, and a Blackface clone...Blackface clone was the best.

The Princeton recording was very noisy (hiss) to the point it was almost unuaseable for recording, and the comp and distortion effects (as well as the antennuator) were laughable. I returned it in 3 days...fortunately, I got it used from GC, and they took it back. I thought I was getting a great deal for $550 out the door, but I got a hand-built amp the way I wanted it set-up from a local builder for only $750...now THAT was a great deal. Sold it to buy better monitors and a cheaper amp...now I need another!
Old 31st December 2010
  #69
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Vogel View Post
Ehh, I've had a Princeton Recording, a RI Princeton, and a Blackface clone...Blackface clone was the best.

The Princeton recording was very noisy (hiss) to the point it was almost unuaseable for recording, and the comp and distortion effects (as well as the antennuator) were laughable. I returned it in 3 days...fortunately, I got it used from GC, and they took it back. I thought I was getting a great deal for $550 out the door, but I got a hand-built amp the way I wanted it set-up from a local builder for only $750...now THAT was a great deal. Sold it to buy better monitors and a cheaper amp...now I need another!
If you had that much hiss, you think maybe there was something wrong with it?

I used one a couple times. Didn't get any hiss at all. I don't remember using the comp though.
Old 31st December 2010
  #70
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blackface Vibrolux and a blackface/silverface champ will get me most places I need to go.
Old 1st January 2011
  #71
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Ron Vogel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
If you had that much hiss, you think maybe there was something wrong with it?

I used one a couple times. Didn't get any hiss at all. I don't remember using the comp though.
It's possible, it was much quieter w/o the effects engaged. For what they go for, the regular Princeton reissue is a much better value. It's a damn good amp, but wish it came with a 12" speaker in it. The extra hoo-ha on the recording version is not worth the money IMHO.

For close to the same money though, a hand-wired clone with a 12" baffle in it already is a way better option... I personally would get a silverface and just do the blackface mod (which is super easy). At least it if I needed to could revert it back to stock and get the money back out of it pretty easy. Clones are great to get a new amp, and kind of hold value...but are harder to sell secondhand and you never get your money back out of them.


One thing about the Princeton though...it's a rattle trap. There is a lot of crap shoved into a small cab. It may take a bit of coaxing on a new build to keep the rattles out, so a head version is a good idea...however I got my best tones with low wattage speakers (like P12R) out of it, so modern high wattage speakers may not have much sparkle.
Old 1st January 2011
  #72
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popmann's Avatar
Quote:
Bruce Springteen and The Roots together on Jimmy Fallon
demonstrate a damn fine example of how a good Fender Twin
sits in a Big Band mix.
Um...I see three amps there--a Bassman 4x10 (behind Bruce pointed up), some HRDeluxe looking modern Fender, and a Mesa to the left.

Tele+tweed Bassman is f'n classic. Lots of clean headroom...and crunches when you crank it. Works with the volume knob to control that difference. Many consider it the ultimate Egtr amp ever. But, for me that's not THE "fender clean" sound. Like not THE sound everyone associates with Fender. that's you BF/SF stuff...supers, Twins, Pros, Deluxes.
Old 1st January 2011
  #73
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James Lugo's Avatar
 

I played some more Fenders today, I don't know maybe I'm just a Fender amp guy, they just don't inspire me. Cleans are nice. I also played a bunch a boutique amps today, Matchless, 65, 3 Monkeys, Blankenship, my favorite was the 3 Monkeys, that's a cool amp. BUT the best I've played was shipped to me today and is really killer.... The Reeves Custom 'Jimmy' 50, it's a recreation of the modded Hiwatt Dave Reeves did for Page for the first few records. The amp is f'n wild sounding! Spent some time playing and dialing it in, really jumps. With my Paul with WCR American Steele pickups in it, it just sounds perfect. We are in session so waiting for the next break and gonna crack out the Tele.
Old 1st January 2011
  #74
A Bandmaster with a 2x15 JBL loaded cab is something else...
Old 1st January 2011
  #75
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Good input Ron.

You reenforce a good point about recording combos in general.

Buzz, rattle, hiss and hum can cost a studio lots of wasted clock time.

Investment wise, hard to beat an all original BF Princeton Reverb, though
you'll get a justified argument about a Brown Face for a bit more dirt.

With new amps you have the luxury of being able to have the right circuit
built with studio quiet build quality, heads or combos with switchable
output impedance and being able to run 8's 10's 12's as you desire for the
project.

Brand Name recognition, vs. hand built studio quality, efficiency and versatility.

What's that worth?
Old 1st January 2011
  #76
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sventvkg's Avatar
 

Deluxe Reverb. Even a Reissue with the right tubes will be Great. I've had a blackface and a reissue and The differences were negligible in the end. $2000 for a Blackface? F that!
Old 1st January 2011
  #77
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FFTT's Avatar
 

I'm real interested in hearing both the clean side and the dirty side
of the Custom Jimmy and your impression of how the switching system
works between the two.

For a CLEANS amp, I would put that Reeves Custom 100 or my Custom 225
up against ANY Fender for cleans and a pedal platform.

The DR-201 circuit is still one amp James needs to try.
4X KT88's is a whole different animal altogether.
Old 1st January 2011
  #78
fenders I've owned, these days a a 1965 Princeton Reverb, when it's right it's really right. Obviously not a lot of clean headroom. And to me not right on everything. I also have a blues Deluxe which is a good utilitarian Fender amp everytime I think about getting rid of it, I wind up using it on a session, and I get something useful out of it. I've also owned a 64 Twin, and a 62 brown Super Amp. They go for a lot of money these days but I have to say that other than my Hiwatt, this is the amp I regret selling most. Hiwatt and a Super Amp ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
BTW James the first couple of Zep albums is Page with a Tele and A Supro. I've never heard about him with Hiwatts
Old 1st January 2011
  #79
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FFTT's Avatar
 

If you want that wonderful weedy Zeppelin I Supro sound,

Magic Amps Z Series is THE answer.
Old 1st January 2011
  #80
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wallace's Avatar
 

Check out George's gear at Ventura Music on Ventura west of vineland. He's always got some really cool vintage that's reasonably priced.
Old 1st January 2011
  #81
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayphish View Post
But the shocker was the gibson amp. It was so amazing driven that it made everyone do a double take.
Hahahah... I misread your post and for a split second was wondering how such a wonderful amp would make people have to do double the amount of takes to get it right...!
Old 1st January 2011
  #82
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softwareguy's Avatar
 

James, you said in two different contexts that after playing a bunch of amps the one you liked the best was a blackface twin. You want clean headroom and you don't care if it has to be loud to give up the goods. All of which makes sense. After all, you have a plexi. My guess is that if there is a right Fender for you, it's probably a Twin.

I own a Princeton, a Deluxe, a Pro, and a Twin, all blackface circuits. The Twin sounds different, for lots of reasons. It's my personal favorite Fender sound.

The trick is to bias them on the warm side. Most techs bias them really cold so that they stay steely clean all the way up. Players then think that's the way a Twin has to sound. It's not. Twins can start giving it up at 4 or 5 just like any other Fender.

As I said, my guess would be that if there is a Fender with your name on it, it's probably a blackface Twin.
Old 1st January 2011
  #83
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FFTT's Avatar
 

James is not the first or only to declare that they like the Fender cleans,
but the OD and lead tones can leave you wanting.

For decades, my neighbor was totally convinced that the best sounding amp in the world was a Fender 6V6 circuit, but the only way he was getting overdrive and lead tones that he liked was to use an OD pedal.

50 years later, he buys a Suhr Badger 18 and he's finally getting the
lead tones he always had in his head, at volumes that weren't bothering
his ears.

So now at age 67, he's totally into EL84's
Old 1st January 2011
  #84
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Tom Hakala's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuildaFriend View Post
I'm pretty sure all of black sabbath's paranoid was done with a fender champ.
I have read it was Laney Supergroup. I had the amp. It's a great if one is looking for that plexi sound in a budget.

And what it comes to Fenders my personal fav is Twin. I've been happy with my 50w Peavey Classic combo, but I wish I had a Twin in my arsenal.
Old 1st January 2011
  #85
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson89 View Post
My favourite Fender Amp hands down is the Fender Prosonic. They stopped making them about 10 years back, but they are definitely a hidden gem...all tube, the clean on it is fantastic, and if you want it has the capability of getting pretty driven on the drive channel...probably more so than any other fender amp i've ever played.
'Pretty driven'? These things SCREAM!
Makes the Twin's sound like cigarette pack amps...(not really)
but, hell yes, great tones and a sleeper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by softwareguy View Post
As I said, my guess would be that if there is a Fender with your name on it, it's probably a blackface Twin.
I feel like this AB763 circuit is THE Fender sound.
Everyone has their own take on it, especially when the Tweeds
start cropping in for comparison.

I have a Blackface(d) Twin with an original external 2x12.
One thing that hasn't really been mentioned is the speakers paired with the amp. I have original Jensens in the Twin cab and JBL d120Fs in the external cab. In a big, nice room, those 2 cabs produce every and all the Fender tone I could need or drool for.
Too much juice? Get a soak and use conservatively.

One thing about the newer, boutique amps, is that they haven't had 20 different techs (usually) rooting around in the circuit and fiddling about over the years.
Unmolested blackface amps are rare...
and in stable working condition, into hen's teeth category.

Ultimately, I think you'll find an amp after playing a bunch, but do think about a couple of differently loaded cabs specifically for your 'Fender' tone quest.

Cheers!
Old 1st January 2011
  #86
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

FIRST, keep in mind I'm talking about "rock" sounds.
Things that are bad:
1. Any fender biased cold, especially when loaded with JBL's = HAIRCUT and premature deafness will follow shortly.

Saying only blackface twins are good, silverface fenders are just fine.

Things that are good:
1. Silver face Twins, especially twins with the master volume, biased warm, loaded with Jensens and turned up pretty loud.

Any fender silverface biased warm will sound great with a little volume, even clean you'll get that glowing mid range and not so slight spongy compression which makes them just ridiculous, but they retain that glassy top end and tube pre clarity and thickness of tone even when the just begin to break up.

Park one in front of a cranked 50 watt Marshall and use both for leads and angels will sing.

Loaded with JBL's, fenders will have a shrill notch between 1 & 2 khz that will hurt you bad, though, it doesn't sound all that bad if compressed a lot on strummed rhythm. Maybe you could bias the tubes to sound decent, but, I've never sen it, they just sound harsh with very uneven tone and who needs that.
Keep in mind this is only about rock sounds where you'd be depending on protracted periods of tone and longer notes, not so much chikkychikky strumming where the percussives are dominant features, although, I guess it might be cool to slip a long note in once in a while.
Old 1st January 2011
  #87
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softwareguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Things that are bad:
1. Any fender biased cold, especially when loaded with JBL's = HAIRCUT and premature deafness will follow shortly.

Saying only blackface twins are good, silverface fenders are just fine.

Things that are good:
1. Silver face Twins, especially twins with the master volume, biased warm, loaded with Jensens and turned up pretty loud.

Any fender silverface biased warm will sound great with a little volume, even clean you'll get that glowing mid range and not so slight spongy compression which makes them just ridiculous, but they retain that glassy top end and tube pre clarity and thickness of tone even when the just begin to break up.

Park one in front of a cranked 50 watt Marshall and use both for leads and angels will sing.

Loaded with JBL's, fenders will have a shrill notch between 1 & 2 khz that will hurt you bad, though, it doesn't sound all that bad if compressed a lot on strummed rhythm. Maybe you could bias the tubes to sound decent, but, I've never sen it, they just sound harsh with very uneven tone and who needs that.
Glad your silverface twin works for you, and I agree with you completely that cold-biasing a twin is an act of evil.

I do think, though, that there is a very meaningful difference in sound between a SF twin and a BF or one that has been modified to a BF circuit. The BF twin will break up more smoothly, earlier, and have much less hardness to the sound.

Most of the things that people don't like in Twins came about as a result of the SF circuit changes. That doesn't mean that a SF twin can't work if you know how and if the context is right, but a BF is a really, really versatile amp that has a real sweetness to the sound, and that doesn't have to be accomodated or worked around in any way.
Old 1st January 2011
  #88
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FFTT's Avatar
 

For natural cleans and natural breakup and at very comfortable
working volumes, it's tough to beat the vintage Ampegs with the right
tube and speaker configurations. Straight up no pedals.



I'm getting such great results with my Fanes, that now some of the Fender
purists are starting to check out the Fanes in their combos.

Just one brief example of the R12R clean to breakup tones, all attributed
to the attack, the guitar volume remained wide open the whole time.
The amp is at just under 1/2 volume and it's doing fine giving up the goods
when I dig in.
Old 1st January 2011
  #89
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Loaded with JBL's, fenders will have a shrill notch between 1 & 2 khz that will hurt you bad
I have an amp right hear that is completely contrary to this.

AFA the SF, for me it was the ultralinear design (120W and after) that started lacking.
Old 1st January 2011
  #90
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 View Post
I have an amp right hear that is completely contrary to this.

AFA the SF, for me it was the ultralinear design (120W and after) that started lacking.
I'm just saying that I've never seen one that didn't have that harsh notch, and I'm not saying that you can't hear it, but, the owners of Fenders with JBL's with the problem never knew it was a problem and swore by the sound though it was almost unusable.

Is the amp you are talking about a silverface twin biased cold with JBL's?

I totally agree that the overly high wattage is a big problem too, I haven't been able to turn one all the way up on a BIG stage. I have turned one all he way up on recordings though.
You know you can modify the output to use only two tubes. Makes a huge difference in volume before breakup and tone.

Black faces sound good, maybe I'm too old, but to me, they aren't the Fender sound, the silverfaces are. The newer Blues models are great amps stock. I prefer a small amp with a ten for a Fender not too loud and cranked up till it starts to heat the room.
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