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Looking for a sweet Fender amp for recording.
Old 30th December 2010
  #31
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bash's Avatar
 

The Deluxe Reverb RI seems to get alot of love from the live acts I've seen. That and the RI Bassman. Just noticing. I play Vox/Matchless amps so I'm not really up on the quality/consistency of the Fender RIs.
Old 30th December 2010
  #32
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Unclenny's Avatar
My Fender sound?

Blues Jr. and Pro Jr. side by side. Seriously.

I know you are thinking vintage, but a BJ with a good speaker can be dialed in for some serious cream and a PJ with a couple of the caps cut delivers serious attitude.

Together they are special.
Old 30th December 2010
  #33
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Deuce 225's Avatar
 

Fender Amps....

Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo View Post
...Maybe an old Deluxe Reverb or Super Reverb? I'm looking for something with some headroom, I want it to overdrive when cracked and played hard but able to be clean at moderate volumes....
???
California Super Badass Dave Alvin - Strats into Super Reverb & Fender Concert




California Badass #2 Pete Anderson with his Tele and Deluxe Reverb....Solo's at about 1min mark and again at 2min.



Deluxe Reverbs and Super Reverbs are siblings from the same father just Leo Fender's Telecaster, Stratocaster and Jazzmaster. You can tell the family resemblance but they are different. Super definitely has more headroom FWIW.

Good luck with your search.

Best,
Tim Cochran
Old 31st December 2010
  #34
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I recently had a session with a few very good fender amps. We had a 64 Super Amp, early sixies Tremolux and a more modern Prosonic. We even had a 1936 Gibson amp to round out the selection. Out of all of them, most of the guys liked the temolux for clean and chimy rythmn playing. It had a very nice scooped tone with lots of nice shimery top to very smooth lows. The Super Amp was a more mid forward but very focused. It was more prefered to be driven a bit when need be. But the shocker was the gibson amp. It was so amazing driven that it made everyone do a double take. Great amp! The prosonic didn't compete unfortunately.
Old 31st December 2010
  #35
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Space Station's Avatar
Ive got two blackface super reverbs. They are super bright amps especially with a single coil fenders and not sure it's what I'd recommend based on what James specified.

Always check the speakers when buying one, very common to find the originals swapped out or blown..can be tricky to find a good one with the originals still in there..

Anyway heres my 65 Super with my 59 jazzmaster..

Old 31st December 2010
  #36
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Sometimes a bargain ugly duckling can make an excellent workhorse amp.

For studio applications, the chassis of a cosmetically challenged combo
can be refurbished, then transfered to a reproduction head cab.
If you change out the transformer you can make it impedance switchable.

A good selection of 10's CTS, EVM10M, AXA10, Weber 10F150 comes in handy.

From my experience cross stage, the vibrolux gave up the goods earlier
and sounded exceptional for crunch and leads with either LP's of Teles.

The Super, bigger, punchy, more headroom and loud!

I think the 10's are easier to control, but a 12's or 15 extension
cab is always fun to experiment with.
Old 31st December 2010
  #37
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Wow, I just came from Hollywood GC and played about 20 amps. Honestly I hated most of them. Most of the vintage stuff sounded like s**t, the RI was more put together sounding but the sound wasn't inspiring. The amp I really liked was a '65 Twin but the sales help was so poor I walked out.
Old 31st December 2010
  #38
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spectacular g's Avatar
 

Tone King Amplifier Company Website

Got killer backface super, pro and pinceton here, all well kept.

Tone King Kills em, the BEST!!! but big $$$

Also check out the new super sonic 22

Fender® Products

Played it yesterday for half an hour or so pretty damn nice, high gain channel will surprise you too.

G
Old 31st December 2010
  #39
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Another vote here for a Princeton Reverb. I have an early '70s that has been refurbished, and someone, before I got the amp, put a Celestion G12M-70 in it, which probably helps a lot in both the tone and volume department. Sounds especially nice with my '67 Rickenbacker 330.
Old 31st December 2010
  #40
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I own a Kendrick "Tweed Champ" clone and a Silver Face Deluxe Reverb and just sold a Black Face Bassman so I can only comment on those.

The Champ will not give you the headroom you're asking for. It is wonderful at what it does but that's kind of a narrow range.

The Deluxe is fantastic. I had it rewired to Blackface spec and it really is a great amp.

The Bassman was almost Marshall'y. (similar lineage) It could give you clean with headroom and a very nice breakup once you pushed it.

You had both a Deluxe and a Bassman at your shoot out but you had so many amps there I guess you didn't really get a chance to really get a feel for either of them. Or if you did you thought they both sucked and are too nice to say so?

Will
Old 31st December 2010
  #41
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aj633's Avatar
I love my '74/75 100W Bassman w/4x12" cab. Thing still has the original tubes I think. Great clean tone and ballsy blues tone with a little overdrive.
Old 31st December 2010
  #42
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My favourite Fender Amp hands down is the Fender Prosonic. They stopped making them about 10 years back, but they are definitely a hidden gem...all tube, the clean on it is fantastic, and if you want it has the capability of getting pretty driven on the drive channel...probably more so than any other fender amp i've ever played.
Old 31st December 2010
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo View Post
Wow, I just came from Hollywood GC and played about 20 amps. Honestly I hated most of them. Most of the vintage stuff sounded like s**t, the RI was more put together sounding but the sound wasn't inspiring. The amp I really liked was a '65 Twin but the sales help was so poor I walked out.
I don't doubt that, since most of the amps you usually post about are newer models with a ton of power and a SS recto. Sag is one of the things with vintage amps, and it can be fun to "ride" it. See if you can get something small to mess with before you plunk down the cash. You would be surpised at how well the crappy old amps will sit in a mix, and sound "loud" recorded.
Old 31st December 2010
  #44
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Oldone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo View Post
Wow, I just came from Hollywood GC and played about 20 amps. Honestly I hated most of them. Most of the vintage stuff sounded like s**t, the RI was more put together sounding but the sound wasn't inspiring. The amp I really liked was a '65 Twin but the sales help was so poor I walked out.
I did the same thing about a month ago in that store. Many of the older Fenders in the big room are highly modified in their tone circuit or just modded to the point of sounding bad. I had one guy tell me about how one Deluxe Reverb was used on the Cars first album. No wonder they got rid of it. It was harsh, hard and unmusical in its tone. I have a DRRI that sounded way better.

My recommendation would be an original Vibrolux prior to 82 if possible 67 or earlier is slightly better. I have an 81 which I will never part with. Next would be Deluxe Reverb, some of the recent ones, the DRRI sound really good but if you want to get retro any silverface between 69-77 are fine and cleaner than prior years but not as sweet in the tonal department as ones from the 60s. If it's just clean you need with no break up, the Princeton is a great recording amp. I have a 77 which I won't part with. That is one circuit which has very few major modifications all through the 60s & 70s, prior to the pull switch versions.
Old 31st December 2010
  #45
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if you're thinking NEW amps...
1. Super Sonic 22 watt
2. Vibrolux reissue

vintage...
1. Vibrolux (a late 60s or 70s silverface can be had for under $1500)
2. Deluxe (non-reverb model is a little cheaper--my '66 was $1200)
Old 31st December 2010
  #46
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you want one with a tube rectifier, they are smooth
Old 31st December 2010
  #47
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I have a '67 blackface deluxe and a '68 Super Reverb. The SR is a first year silver face and is the same schem as the BF for a whole lot less money. Doesn't look as cool but sounds amazing. I paid $650 for it.

If I had to pick one amp that would be it. The 4 Alnicos sound so sweet and it will do a moderately loud clean and then a great dirty thang when cranked.
Mine is not bright at all and I'm using it with a rosewood neck Tele with Duncan Antiquities or a 335 with Duncan Seth Lovers.

It also takes pedals great and sounds amazing with a tape echo.

The deluxe is great in the studio but I'd have a hard time on a gig keeping it sounding clean.

I hit the gtr show and played through 3 or 4 of them and picked the best one.

I was surprised you didn't have one in the shootout.
Old 31st December 2010
  #48
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Ok... let me put my disclaimer at the front of this. I am a guitar/amp snob. Sorry... but it's true.

So... first of all... the fender re-issues really dont do much for me at all! What I do like recently is the Supersonic and the Tone Master (discontinued). Both would be able to get you something really similar to what you looking for, maybe exactly. If you find the right one (yeah, they are all a little different).. MAGIC!

For what you described though... sounds like a Deluxe is really want you want... but it's gotta be an old blackface... and not modified or trashed. It's tough to find a great one... and they don't all sound the same, and can be REALLY pricey. :( That said... if you see a innocent little silverface deluxe sitting around... don't pass it by without playing it. Every once in a while I hear a really great sounding one as is. And.. for most any good tech, it's pretty simple to mod it back to blackface specs and it can be AMAZING!

Another rig along these lines is an old blonde bassman head. That combined with the 2 x 12 cabinet that came with it, or an old silvertone 2 x 12 with good speakers in it can RULE!

I do like blackface supers... but as mentioned above... they are pretty bright. Those 10's really can be sweet and chimey with good compression... but lots of highs.

Now... what I think a lot of people miss is that the VAST majority of people that play these amps and get an AMAZING clean tone out of it are running a really good compressor in front of it. The old MXR has been the standard for a long time, but now I actually MUCH prefer the Keeley. It just rules. You can dial in a very small amount of compression and then bring the output up to drive the front of the amp and it really gives you the response you want but smooths out the highs without sounding like it's really compressed. Can really make the amp respond the way you want it to at lower volumes too. This can even make a Super just KILL without the painful highs. Supers are REALLY, REALLY loud though in the sweet spot.

Some other amps I REALLY like are the Mesa Blue Angels (discontinued), but a GREAT boutique clean sounding amp.

You said Fender... but another option (especially for rock) is a great older Vox or a Matchless DC-30. These really have the chime and warmth without the harshness. Combine with a compressor on the front and you have one of my favorite clean tones for rock. Just awesome.

Anyway... you are doing the right thing. Keep playing amps. You will know it when you find it. If you aren't already... be sure to bring one of your own guitars so you will really know what the amp sounds like. A bad instrument can really throw you off. When I go to check out amps... I bring my strat that I have had for 16 years now, and my keeley compressor. That allows me to REALLY find out what an amp is capable of.

Rock on... and as always... jmtc.
Old 31st December 2010
  #49
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Looking for a sweet Fender amp for recording.

I have a blackface Tremolux that was dropped into 2-10 combo. Sounds fantastic with one alnico & one ceramic. Ultra fine sounding with some vintage Rics. Very Byrds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayphish
I recently had a session with a few very good fender amps. We had a 64 Super Amp, early sixies Tremolux and a more modern Prosonic. We even had a 1936 Gibson amp to round out the selection. Out of all of them, most of the guys liked the temolux for clean and chimy rythmn playing. It had a very nice scooped tone with lots of nice shimery top to very smooth lows. The Super Amp was a more mid forward but very focused. It was more prefered to be driven a bit when need be. But the shocker was the gibson amp. It was so amazing driven that it made everyone do a double take. Great amp! The prosonic didn't compete unfortunately.
Old 31st December 2010
  #50
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get a twin, but make sure its a blackface.... I've both and the silverface is really not IT!

The blackface has plenty of balls, can sound real great in a dark or bright setting, clean, dirty or distorted.

The silverface seems to ring in an unpleasant way sometimes. I like to reamp through it though. Like bass, keys, vox..... etc. I just don't like tracking through it.
Old 31st December 2010
  #51
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Like most amp manufacturers today, Fender really cut corners
on their stock speakers, both to remain competitive and to reduce
weight on their large combos. Here and there some nice CTS AlNiCos
Jensens and JBLs, but most of their speakers have been cheap, just barely
good enough quality.

There is no way Fender or any other builder would offer their amps
stock with speakers running $200-$350.00 EACH!

I still don't get why so many of the best legacy circuits were only
offered in a combo.

A 70 pound Twin is hardly a grab and go amp.
Loaded with a pair on EVM12L's it's a back breaker.

For Fender CLEANS, it's hard to beat a Twin or a Dual Showman
through a pair of tight EV or JBL 15's.

With all the other amps in your growing stable, you've got OD tones
well covered, so I would think you would be looking for amps
that cover sounds you are not already getting from the other amps.

One thing you do seem to be missing is a good 10's cab.

The ideal studio 10's cab would be front loaded, with a convertible
back, either 2X10 or 4X10 , maybe a V Front like Bob Burt's.
Old 31st December 2010
  #52
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In NEW Fender voiced circuits, it's quite a gauntlet.

Gries 5*, 20 and 35 , excellent build execution, studio quiet.
Heads or combos.

Headstrong Little King

Louis Electric KR-12

/13 FTR 37

Allen Sweet Spot, Encore, Accomplice

Tone King Imperial

Category 5 Allen and Andrew

VVT Amps Fralin

Fargen Black Bird

Pure 64

Two Rock

Many MANY ways to voice a 6V6 or 6L6 circuit
as many ways as your last amp fest showed you
you can build an EL34 circuit.

You still have some great Ampeg alternatives that may actually
deliver better recording quality tones, better sounding on board reverb
and very cool tremolo for a relative bargain.

I purchased my '65 Gemini I for $850.00 in very good clean condition,
mixed NOS glass and a period correct Jensen AlNiCo.

Some of the upkeep had been done, but my tech Eric, re-did the cap job,
new power chord, NOS Tremolo tube, removed the death cap, cleaning, tweaking $300.00 The new Fane AXA12 ran $320.00 shipped.

I'm still too poor to afford Eric's recommended replacement of the
7591's with a well matched pair of NOS Sylvania or RCA's which
will run around $120-$160.00 a pair.

So I'm into $1630.00 when it's all said and done for
this "affordable" vintage amp.


Worth every penny, but I'm up for the commitment to bring out and preserve the very best in this amp.
Old 31st December 2010
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frans View Post
In what context? In case you DON'T mean in the same room with a full band you could use any boutique amp, even a Fender.

One possibility would be a THD univalve with the right 6L6. This is a small single-ended amp which takes many different pentodes and you can hook it up with whatever cab you like. There are a hundred other contenders.
I love my Univalve for its flexibility and great tone. As much as I like my '65 Deluxe, it starts breaking up with the volume at around 3 and doesn't have the punchiness of the THD with a 6L6. Another choice for great clean tones is an AC30 with Celestion blues or Weber Blue Dogs. A lot of punch
Old 31st December 2010
  #54
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Once you narrow down on what you like and dislike, be sure to take
your own favorite guitar(s) with you when you go to try out a possible keeper.

When I'm listening to an amp, I'm sitting on the floor in front of it
not standing above it.

I've noticed you tend to dig in pretty hard when you play and you may be missing a lot of textures and subtleties that a lighter attack and lower gain settings will reveal.

Playing with a light attack will also show you how bold or thin the headroom
clarity will sound when players are finger picking.
Old 31st December 2010
  #55
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we have a 61 brown princeton that has tone out the wazoo, made it on almost every record we have made here.

If you want reverb get a 65 blackface princeton reverb ORIGINAL!

holy grail for recording fender amps....

that said we also use...

48 champ 600
62 blonde bassman head with a mod to 80watts !!!!thumbsup
65 bandmaster blackface head !!!!thumbsup
82 super champ
77 twin
65 deluxe reverb ri

other really cool amps for recording
valco chicago 51
oahu
silvertone 1484 head
airline 8500 or 8502
magnatone
national

all those 50's american amps can be found for a few hundred dollars, and they are all different tone beasts, great breakup / tone.

James - by the shootout it looks like you have all the big beasts covered... now you need some little american tone monsters!
they mix very well as texture with the big beasts too!!!
Old 31st December 2010
  #56
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A couple of comments:
1. Where are people getting $2000 for a BF Super? Around here, one with any challenges at all is languishing at $1200. And a SF sells easily in the $1100-1200 range. Still, it's a VERY loud amp before it starts to break up, not sure that's what the OP wants.

2. No one has discussed the difference in the sound of the 3 eras of vintage Fender amps, and I think it's relevant. Essentially tweed=complex cleans, not a lot of clean overhead, warm and easy distortion. Brown=gorgeous cleans with slightly less mids, decent clean overhead, sweet breakup. BF/SF=scooped mids cleans (think country), breakup later and more harshly than tweeds, although still very useable. Then there's the different behavior of the different sizes of amps: the 40w and higher amps hit you hard, a Vox AC30 may be as loud as a Super but it doesn't have the spank I don't find it fun being in the studio, even with a tweed bassman cranked all the way up, and I don't mind a 100w Marshall. 6V6 amps will be softer in the attack as well as overall volume as 6L6s, but even so a cranked Deluxe sounds WAY smoother to me than a cranked Princeton. Fenders ALL respond well to OD pedals, with the TS series, the Klon, the Rat and all other "mid-bump" ODs working really well.

So, if you can only have one? If cleans are an issue, it'd be one of:
1. Tweed Bassman-no reverb or tremelo, loud amp, but the most gorgeous, organic cleans ever and does break-up in a hard rock way.
2. Brown Super-the tremelo is to die for, overall volume is manageable, clean is complex and sweet and it breaks up at a reasonable level. Honorable mention to the brown Bandmaster head.
3. BF/SF Deluxe Reverb-everything that you think of with Fender at a lower volume. Not giggable in my area but records well.
4. BF/SF Vibrolux Reverb-the Deluxe on steroids. Not as desperately loud as the Super or as heavy as the twin or pro (although a Pro with JBLs is a REALLY good sound, it's not really portable). Reverb and tremelo are two cool tools to have available, too.
Old 31st December 2010
  #57
Since you have a lot of cabinets at your disposal, have you thought about a head? Look around for a Showman, Tremolux, brown or blackface Bassman.

Honestly, the best Fender amplifier that's walked into the studio was an old Fender Harvard from the 50's. That's a great blues amplifier.

But, really, a blackface Deluxe Reverb is probably what you want. I really don't think the older Fender amplifiers are too bright, but I've recorded a lot of Blue Deluxe Then again, a lot of it is in the fingers!
Old 31st December 2010
  #58
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Of all the Fender tones I love, the one that still grabs me the most
and remains elusive is Ron Wood's tone for Stay With Me and I'm Losing You.



Old 31st December 2010
  #59
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I have an old silverface Fender Musicmaster Bass amp, lightweight and has a cheap alnico in it, might change it to a Jensen or Celestion 25 watt when it blows, but it sounds awesome and i use it a lot, it has THE Fender tone out the wazoo, SUPER creamy, hot butter tone tone tone. All tube, a simple 1 channel circuit goes to glowing butter tone when overdriven, turned all the way up.
I got it dead and modded it, it's strictly for recording, and I changed a few caps in the pre section to different types/materials to ge that glowing effect to come from the amp instead of a mic pre, then I get double he effect when I push the pre, OMG! BUTTUH!!!
Old 31st December 2010
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Of all the Fender tones I love, the one that still grabs me the most
and remains elusive is Ron Wood's tone for Stay With Me and I'm Losing You.



That sounds like a Fender Champ, turned all the way. Also sounds like the the GA-6 we have the studio, but a little more frizz in the fuzz.
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