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one more 414, or a pair of OH mics? Condenser Microphones
Old 30th December 2010
  #1
Gear Head
 

one more 414, or a pair of OH mics?

i've been building up an arsenal of microphones lately and i'm stuck at a crossroad. here is my abbreviated condensor list...

U87x 2
blue kiwi
c414 XLS
at4040
assorted low end sterling audio, GT, naiant, etc etc

as you can see, i've got no SDC's in my collection, unless you count the tiny pair of naiant somethings that i have. i've got a drum tracking session coming up, and i wonder if it would be better for me to buy another 414 xls and use those for OHs or maybe grab a pair of something else for the job? would love to stay in the $1000 range.

any suggestions? also, i've heard the kiwi works well on the outside of a kick drum. any confirmations?

thanks slutz!
Old 30th December 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 
PaulMac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TelosHedge View Post
i've been building up an arsenal of microphones lately and i'm stuck at a crossroad. here is my abbreviated condensor list...

U87x 2
blue kiwi
c414 XLS
at4040
assorted low end sterling audio, GT, naiant, etc etc

as you can see, i've got no SDC's in my collection, unless you count the tiny pair of naiant somethings that i have. i've got a drum tracking session coming up, and i wonder if it would be better for me to buy another 414 xls and use those for OHs or maybe grab a pair of something else for the job? would love to stay in the $1000 range.

any suggestions? also, i've heard the kiwi works well on the outside of a kick drum. any confirmations?

thanks slutz!
I love c141-b xls's as OHs... just pay attention to the amount of width you're achieving and if it's desirable. With the right placement you really can't go wrong with the 414s.
In saying that, I also have a pair of Naiant small diaphragm condensers and love them on OHs too. I'm tending to use larger diaphragm condensers for OHs a lot more these days, though. The naiants serve well as hat and ride mics too.

I have a real bias for 414s, though. I did a recording about 4 or 5 months ago using 8 of them for drums with the only other mics used being a D112 on the kick and 57 on snare top. Using 414s (or any other multi-pattern mic) on snare bottom, toms etc. allows you to judge how "in your face" you want them to be really easily.

I got my stereo pair for $1000 on here so they're certainly in your budget heh
Good luck!
Old 30th December 2010
  #3
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PaulMac's Avatar
Oh, and the Kiwi is a great mic for kic out. Try it at different angles... sometimes off-axis with the skin at a little bit of distance can work well. And stick a rug or something over them for a bit of isolation. There's nothing worse than trying to get a bit of 2-4k upper punch out your kick and all it does is emphasise the cymbals!
Old 31st December 2010
  #4
Gear Head
 

hey, thanks very much for the advice! i figured as much that another 414 would certainly do me no harm, just wasn't sure if it was the way to go or not. my little naiants are cool mics but they are omnidirectional and that seems like a strange pattern for OH micing... maybe i'm wrong though?
Old 31st December 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 

we like 87's for OH's... at least for rock... and older 87's not the ai's... greatly prefer the heft and punch of the 87's over 414's for rock OH's...
Old 31st December 2010
  #6
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johndykstra's Avatar
 

Depends...

I find LDC's to work way better in a great sounding room. If your room is rather meh, you may consider some ribbons ala Fatheads, or the Audio Technica ATM450s for a really good bang for the buck SDC. 414's are killer, I'd love to have a second. In fact, I have one 414 and one U87, and I'd much sooner pair up the 414 than the U87...

Don't see a lot of dynamics on your list. A pair of MD421s would round that out nicely.
Old 31st December 2010
  #7
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Hammer Mark's Avatar
Like the previous poster, I'm wondering why you wouldn't use your U87s for OH. Of course the 414s are fine as well. I've used the Kiwi for FOK and it works well there. I'm using an ifet7 there now with the Kiwi covering room duty.
Old 31st December 2010
  #8
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TelosHedge View Post

as you can see, i've got no SDC's in my collection, unless you count the tiny pair of naiant somethings that i have. i've got a drum tracking session coming up, and i wonder if it would be better for me to buy another 414 xls and use those for OHs or maybe grab a pair of something else for the job? would love to stay in the $1000 range.
I really like my 414 EBs for overhead duties.

I recently got a pair of SDCs - the Beyer MC 930s- and I love them on acoustic guitar, acoustic piano, they are great for chamber music, but I was disappointed when I tried them as drum overheads. I depend heavily on the "overall" OH pickup and the SDCs seemed a bit too sharp for my taste.

Maybe if I used my OH mics primarily as 'cymbal mics' it would be a different story.
Old 31st December 2010
  #9
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suedesound's Avatar
 

i like 414's on overheads for rock so if that's what you're doing i would go with getting a second, also very versatile mics.
Old 31st December 2010
  #10
Gear Head
 

one more 414, or a pair of OH mics?

I have 87ai's... they are a bit brittle for rock OHs in my experience. a low ceiling in my room prevents me from pulling them up and away from the cymbals and I get a lot of attack.

I was just making mention of the condensers I have. I omitted my dynamics. in case that poster was wondering though, I have many of the standards...

57s and 58s
d112
beta 52
re20
sm7b

I would love a few 421s and 441s and maybe even the audix stuff
but I'm just not there yet. most of my work is vocal and guitar based so I haven't had the need for many dynamics. but then again, maybe I do?
Old 31st December 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Another 414 wouldn't hurt you, I love having mics and pre's in pairs, I have never owned 414's but i would love to try them as overheads, or you could slap up the U87s overhead and try those 414s on floor toms. As for your lack of SDC's, well, you can take care of that down the line some time. The only SDC's I currently own are a pair of Sahiaman's Little Blondies, a tiny omni that might still be under 100 bucks each. I am using them as my overhead of choice, and they sound great. i use my LDC's for other things.
Old 31st December 2010
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
jujumies's Avatar
 

Can I ask you what is your opinion of 414's compared to 4040's?

Simo


Quote:
Originally Posted by TelosHedge View Post
i've been building up an arsenal of microphones lately and i'm stuck at a crossroad. here is my abbreviated condensor list...

U87x 2
blue kiwi
c414 XLS
at4040
assorted low end sterling audio, GT, naiant, etc etc

as you can see, i've got no SDC's in my collection, unless you count the tiny pair of naiant somethings that i have. i've got a drum tracking session coming up, and i wonder if it would be better for me to buy another 414 xls and use those for OHs or maybe grab a pair of something else for the job? would love to stay in the $1000 range.

any suggestions? also, i've heard the kiwi works well on the outside of a kick drum. any confirmations?

thanks slutz!
Old 1st January 2011
  #13
Gear Head
 

honestly i haven't yet done a direct comparison between the 414 XLS and the 4040. i had my 4040 first and once i got into the heavier hitter mics the 4040 hasn't seen much action.

my biggest problem i always had with the 4040 was always on vocals. it always had this midrange hump to it that made all the guys sound a little nasaly, and a bit muffled towards the high end. same thing with acoustic guitars. i have used it on electric guitar with better success, but nowadays i'm back to dynamic mics on elec cabinets, so it mostly just sits up on the shelf.

in the next week or so i'm having a male vocalist come in, and we're going to do a shootout between the many mics. maybe i'll post the session when we're done!
Old 1st January 2011
  #14
SRS
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SRS's Avatar
 

As has been said... another 414 would not hurt you. If looking for a very nice SDC pair, look at the Josephson C42. VERY nice sounding on OHs.
Old 1st January 2011
  #15
Gear Head
 

fair enough. now, one more question.

i'm using the newer 414-XLS (9 pattern). do i need another XLS to match them up, or could i use an old school 414b (5 pattern) and just stick to the same pattern, or are both mics not the same???
Old 1st January 2011
  #16
Gear Nut
 

I would buy another 414-XLS and 2 oktava MK012. With these mics, you can do different setups : 414 as OH and MK012 as individual cymbals mics, with the -10db on, or put the MK012 as OH and 414's on snare and Hit hat, or on toms...
Old 1st January 2011
  #17
SRS
Lives for gear
 
SRS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TelosHedge View Post
fair enough. now, one more question.

i'm using the newer 414-XLS (9 pattern). do i need another XLS to match them up, or could i use an old school 414b (5 pattern) and just stick to the same pattern, or are both mics not the same???
Get the XLS. I'm not a huge believer in consecutive serial number matching, but to have the same model and approximate manufacture time frame would likely be beneficial.
Old 1st January 2011
  #18
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audiogeek's Avatar
 

I love 414's, and my first thought was to recommend another.

But after seeing your list, that you have two 87's and no SDCs, I definitely would recommend picking up a pair of quality small diaphragms.

The 87s are great for overheads, and something like a pair of (old) 451s, SM81s, or perhaps some used KM184s would greatly behoove you, not just for drum mic'ing (hi hats, snare bottom, etc) but also for other stringed instrument mic'ing like acoustic guitars, piano, violin/cello/viola/whatever... Or even as room mics!
Old 2nd January 2011
  #19
Registered User
 

matched pair of anything
Old 2nd January 2011
  #20
Gear Head
 

all of you guys have been a great help. i will grab myself another XLS.

there will be more threads of questions coming as i get time to ask them!
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