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Acoustic Guitar - sliding sound
Old 29th December 2010
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Acoustic Guitar - sliding sound

I like to record my electro-acoustic guitar in two takes, the most perfect way that I can, and hard pann left and right.
If they sound like ONE stereo guitar, the takes are good

I record the direct input (clean and warm sound, but plastic) plus the sound captured by a Rode K2 (to capture a more natural sound, the highs, and the pick).

It sounds good, but there's one thing I really don't like: If I change from one chord to the next, one can hear a natural HISS caused by the fingers sliding in the strings.

How to atenuate this? EQ? De-esser? Which frequencies?

Thank you, and GREAT holidays to all
Old 29th December 2010
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciperlone View Post
I like to record my electro-acoustic guitar in two takes, the most perfect way that I can, and hard pann left and right.
If they sound like ONE stereo guitar, the takes are good

I record the direct input (clean and warm sound, but plastic) plus the sound captured by a Rode K2 (to capture a more natural sound, the highs, and the pick).

It sounds good, but there's one thing I really don't like: If I change from one chord to the next, one can hear a natural HISS caused by the fingers sliding in the strings.

How to atenuate this? EQ? De-esser? Which frequencies?

Thank you, and GREAT holidays to all
There was actually a great response to this in the Tips and Techniques section.
Here it is :

"
c Gtr - Getting rid of guitar string squeek...


After you've tracked that guitar track, go into edit mode and set your in/out points at the beginning and ending of each gnarley squeek you want to get rid of.

Copy and paste these points to a new track so that they're still in sync with the original tracks.

Flip the phase on your pasted tracks. This cancels out the original squeeks.

This was new to me so I hope it helps someone.

Peace..........Kel"
Old 29th December 2010
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by willylumplumps View Post
There was actually a great response to this in the Tips and Techniques section.
Here it is :

"
c Gtr - Getting rid of guitar string squeek...


After you've tracked that guitar track, go into edit mode and set your in/out points at the beginning and ending of each gnarley squeek you want to get rid of.

Copy and paste these points to a new track so that they're still in sync with the original tracks.

Flip the phase on your pasted tracks. This cancels out the original squeeks.

This was new to me so I hope it helps someone.

Peace..........Kel"
But that will completely remove that sound, which is a NATURAL sound of the instrument. All I want is to atenuate it, not to completely remove it. Besides, that will take a huge lot of work to make the guitar sound un-natural...

Thank you for the tip, it can be helpfull in some other situations... but is there any other sollution?

Thanks!
Old 29th December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
DanDaMan's Avatar
 

Have you tried a noise gate? You could set the "Range" function fairly low so that you don't completely kill it off. Maybe you could also set a longer release time too.
Old 29th December 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 

I was going to link to the tips & techniques thread too - also a comp sidechained to the squeaky frequency (if you can dial it in) might help, or doing the phase invert thing but put the phase inverted track a little softer than the original to keep some of it - you can also try micing the guitar a little farther away, might help minimize the effect. Or string lubricant but I'm not into that....
Old 29th December 2010
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
jwnc's Avatar
Buy a can of Fast Fret and use it on the acoustic strings before you record and that will help cut out most of it.
Old 29th December 2010
  #7
Deleted #157546
Guest
No need to do any of this. Use a desser. Just set the target frequency lower than you would on esses.
Old 29th December 2010
  #8
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciperlone View Post
I like to record my electro-acoustic guitar in two takes, the most perfect way that I can, and hard pann left and right.
If they sound like ONE stereo guitar, the takes are good

I record the direct input (clean and warm sound, but plastic) plus the sound captured by a Rode K2 (to capture a more natural sound, the highs, and the pick).

It sounds good, but there's one thing I really don't like: If I change from one chord to the next, one can hear a natural HISS caused by the fingers sliding in the strings.

How to atenuate this? EQ? De-esser? Which frequencies?

Thank you, and GREAT holidays to all
It's mostly playing technique but also mic placement. I would also try to use a mic that isn't too bright. It's one of the reasons I mostly prefer dynamic mics like the Beyer M201 on acoustic guitar which can work great with an added Pultec-type EQ or plug-in to bring out the sparkle.

And don't underestimate strings. Different brands have different 'frequency centers' but it's really important NOT to use brand-new strings when recording as they will be extremely bright sounding without any 'meat'.
Old 29th December 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
You can eliminate the squeaking by using coated strings. Elixir by Gortex, D'addario and I think GHS make coated strings as well. The sound is eliminated but also they are slightly duller than a new set of acoustic guitar strings.
Old 29th December 2010
  #10
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bash's Avatar
 

Solutions:

-Lift, don't slide, to new positions.
-Flat Tops/Round Wounds/Coated Strings.
-EQ/Desser/Phase surgery.
-Celebrate the Squeaks!
Old 29th December 2010
  #11
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Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bash View Post
-Celebrate the Squeaks!
....after you tame them with a little simple volume automation or perhaps and automated EQ cut.
Old 29th December 2010
  #12
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Hammer Mark's Avatar
Like most problems, fix it before you press record. In this case by mic position, playing technique, or different/treated strings.
Old 29th December 2010
  #13
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swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
It's mostly playing technique but also mic placement.
this has been my experience, except mostly technique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
but it's really important NOT to use brand-new strings when recording as they will be extremely bright sounding without any 'meat'.
Well, sort of. I find a great acoustic guitar will sound great with new strings with minimal playing time, but never extremely bright. I string with Pearse 80/20 mediums and mic with ribbons, so YMMV.
Old 29th December 2010
  #14
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

Don’t forget that there are strings made especially for recording.
Old 29th December 2010
  #15
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
this has been my experience, except mostly technique.

Well, sort of. I find a great acoustic guitar will sound great with new strings with minimal playing time, but never extremely bright. I string with Pearse 80/20 mediums and mic with ribbons, so YMMV.
I agree. I think that acoustic strings break in pretty quickly but it's still something that players sometimes forget.

As for 'lifting the fingers' as some folks have pointed out above, well this is something that you can work out as a player but never in the studio -you can't just change in an instant or tell the musicians to do so as it will most probably make the player extremely uncomfortable - on top of the nervousness that might already be there when recording.

Another thought: I'm a huge fan of Gibson acoustic guitars and at least with my own guitars, I can point the mic pretty close to the soundhole without any boom. I never could do this with other guitars and the 'small condensor pointed at the 12th fret' technique pontificated in many a Recording 101 will probably enhance the fretting noises.

Having said all that, I also think it's part of the guitar sound even with calssical guitar and I wouldn't want to miss the fret noise in say Julian Bream's recordings!
Old 29th December 2010
  #16
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AnthonyRochester's Avatar
 

I don't see how copying that part to another track and flipping the phase has any benefit over a simple volume automation. Apart from a less squeaky playing technique, volume automation is all you need to do. De-ess could work for those bits, but it will probably also remove some of the sound that you want when the squeaks are not happening.
Old 29th December 2010
  #17
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KRStudio's Avatar
 

If I am mixing tracks that have this problem, I use the phase invert mentioned earlier. Once you do this you can adjust the volume of the flipped track to get the amount of squeak you want. Don't remove all of it but just the amount you want.
Old 29th December 2010
  #18
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Unclenny's Avatar
With the deepest respect for those who talk of getting it right on the way in.......

.......I just can't. When I am in a groove I need to let all worries about guitar noise go by the way. That being said, if you remain conscious of technique during practice it will help during performance.

I still say.....embrace guitar noise.

I'm currently tracking on a 1933 Kalamazoo. It has a huge neck that squeaks no matter how much talc I apply to my hands. When I'm tracking I put it out of my mind and just play.

It's like breath noises.....gotta leave some of it in.
Old 29th December 2010
  #19
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strings's Avatar
I actually like that sound. Unless it's too in your face, I would leave it be.
Old 30th December 2010
  #20
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Jerrick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciperlone View Post
But that will completely remove that sound, which is a NATURAL sound of the instrument. All I want is to atenuate it, not to completely remove it. Besides, that will take a huge lot of work to make the guitar sound un-natural...

Thank you for the tip, it can be helpfull in some other situations... but is there any other sollution?

Thanks!
The phase thing is the same way I go about it, but you can easily change the volume of that track or some simple eq to it so they dont null each other out, but just duck a little. To me its easier this way and quick, than if I did volume automation.
Old 30th December 2010
  #21
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Scott Whigham's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
It's mostly playing technique but also mic placement.
For me it's a bit different - it's mostly string composition/manufacture. John Pearse strings had me thinking I was the worst acoustic guitar player in the world. I tried 3-4 other sets of both 80/20 and Phosphor Bronze and each was better/different for my style. I finally settled on Thomastik-Infeld.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrebes View Post
You can eliminate the squeaking by using coated strings.
Buttttttttttttt you get a much more compressed sound, one that I can't stand on acoustic recordings. I personally like coated strings as a player (saves me money) but not as a listener.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bash View Post
Solutions:

-Lift, don't slide, to new positions.
-Flat Tops/Round Wounds/Coated Strings.
-EQ/Desser/Phase surgery.
-Celebrate the Squeaks!
Celebrate the Squeaks lol - yes, there are those times!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
I string with Pearse 80/20 mediums and mic with ribbons, so YMMV.
You have a very different technique than me then! The Pearse electric strings are amazing but the 80/20s, for me, are the squeakiest of all!
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