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Lavry Black AD-10 - noticable step-up from RME Multiface I converters? Audio Interfaces
Old 27th December 2010
  #1
Gear Head
 

Lavry Black AD-10 - noticable step-up from RME Multiface I converters?

Good morning everybody,

somehow I'm under the impression, that stuff I record through the RME Multiface I into my DAW, sounds somewhat "digital/unnatural". Especially when I start using Plug -Ins on the tracks (UAD). My guess is that the AD converters in the Multiface arent't the best (wich they probably are not). As pre-amps I use the LA-610 and the SPL Channel One.
My question now is, since I never recorded through "real pro" converters, will they make a noticable difference (and I'm not talking through High-End, audiophil speakers, only)?

Will the Lavry be a step up, that might actually solve my Problem? I hear a lot people saying, converters dont't really make a difference, while others state the opposite.

Btw. I mostly record at levels around -10 dB, so I'm not going for a "hot" digital signal.

As always, thanx for your help.
Old 27th December 2010
  #2
Converters really make a difference, try the Lavry, you'll never go back to the RME.
Old 27th December 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Red 7's Avatar
It depends on how well is your room treated. Then you can/can not hear the difference.
Old 27th December 2010
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Gearhero's Avatar
 

Blown Away!
Night and Day!
Car analog-ay
Differences gray?
Try stacking theor-ay
Spent all my mon-ay
YMMV
Old 28th December 2010
  #5
Gear Head
 

My room is partially treated with absorbtion and difffusion, not completely done, though.
I'm asking especially about getting rid of that "digital" i believe to hear in my recorded tones. Maby it's just my mind trickin' me tutt but maby it's there.

Also I don't dislike my sound but I miss this "crawling out of my speakers" thingy, I hear with professional productions and I thought, besides lacking skills, converters are a big part of that.

I mainly record voice/guitars/bass and drums, pretty straight rock stuff.

I mean, it's a lot of money and I don't want to just blow it for almost no improvement.
Old 28th December 2010
  #6
Dz7
Gear Addict
Be advised Lavry starts shipping AD11 (USB compatible similar to DA11) in the next few weeks. In case you're interested (I'm on preorder!)
Old 28th December 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 
doug hazelrigg's Avatar
Convertors differ in 2 key areas, from I've read: the implementation of the conversion itself, and the analog section. I have a old Apogee Rosetta that sounds a bit "warmer" than my EMU 1616m which is supposed to have the same convertors as the Pro Tools HD192. I'll wager that while the conversion implementation of the Lavry and RME are roughly equal, I'd guess that the analog section of the Lavry can't be beat
Old 28th December 2010
  #8
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai-fish View Post
I'm asking especially about getting rid of that "digital" i believe to hear in my recorded tones.

One word: Burl.

Problem solved.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 28th December 2010
  #9
Gear Head
 

What are the advantages the Burl has over the Lavry? The reason I'm interested in the Lavry, was the price and the good reviews.
Old 28th December 2010
  #10
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Pure analog tone and girth for days... the kind of signal that takes very well to dsp treatment after the fact.

It's the exact opposite of the sound you're currently fighting.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 28th December 2010
  #11
Gear Head
 

if you are talking about the B Bomber ADC....that thing is wayyyy out of my price range. I'm not a pro nor am I making money with this. I'm just looking for the best possible tone, that I can afford for my hobby. I'd go up to maby 1800 Euro but anything beyond this is a no-go tutt.

Thank you for the advice, though.
Old 28th December 2010
  #12
Gear Addict
I did that very same upgrade a few years ago (Mulitface to AD10).

Yes, big improvement
Old 28th December 2010
  #13
Lives for gear
 

On a budget, if you can find a BLA Sparrow somewhere (it seems to be out of production at the moment) that's an awesome deal.
Old 28th December 2010
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Gearhero's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai-fish View Post
somehow I'm under the impression, that stuff I record through the RME Multiface I into my DAW, sounds somewhat "digital/unnatural".
Can you post some of your material that sounds digital/unnatural? It may be something other than converters causing this.
Old 28th December 2010
  #15
Old 28th December 2010
  #16
Lives for gear
Lavry Black AD-10 - noticable step-up from RME Multiface I converters?

I have the Lavry AD-10 and absolutely love it. Very noticeable improvement over my Apogee Rosetta and much easier to set levels.
Old 28th December 2010
  #17
Lives for gear
 
TurboJets's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
On a budget, if you can find a BLA Sparrow somewhere (it seems to be out of production at the moment) that's an awesome deal.
In the mid-price range (to include RME $$) BLA conversion is the most natural I've heard personally in my own rig. Clarity is there along with openness, depth, detail, beautiful transients, the works - across the entire spectrum. The Sparrow is a great recommendation. Personally I feel to get any "better" than BLA you have to jump up into the $1,600+ range.
Old 29th December 2010
  #18
Gear Head
 

@GearHead

I'll post a clip these days, so you can here the problems, my mixes suffer from. That's a good idea.

I'm also missing that "crawling out of the speakers" sound, I hear with professional productions.
If I A/B, my stuff sounds pretty flat.
I know, this is not a "converters only" problem, but maby they are a piece of the puzzle, that brings me a little closer.
I thought I read that, without really good AD converters, there is no chance to get close to a 3D sound.
Old 29th December 2010
  #19
Lives for gear
I now own a blacklion modded 96, but previously had the Lavry AD 10 and it was superb. The emulations do work good too. Lavry is top notch. Can't go wrong with it. For the money, no better 2 channels of conversion IMO. If I had the money, the Burl would be butter.
Old 29th December 2010
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Ruudman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai-fish View Post
..Also I don't dislike my sound but I miss this "crawling out of my speakers" thingy, I hear with professional productions and I thought, besides lacking skills, converters are a big part of that..
IMO how you record and what you record contribute more to a "professional sound" than a converter (allthough it's in the recording chain).

The right performer/instrument/room/mic combo is a mindblowing experience.

What's in your mic locker ++ ?

I'm not trying to act like a besserwisser here!
Old 29th December 2010
  #21
Gear Head
 

@ Ruudman

thx for the response. I mostly record guitars with an SM 57 and a E906. Sometimes i add an AT 4050 for ambience. Pre-amps are LA-610 and SPL Gold Channel straight into my RME multiface I into the DAW.
The GC got replaced by an A-Designs Pacifica this Jul.
Haven't tried it so far.

As amps I use the Tiny Terror and the Rocktron Pirnha through the JCM 800 poweramp into an ooooold 4x12 1960 marshal cab.

For Vocals I mostly use an Equitec E-350 into the LA 610.

A also put up absorbers "basotect" and diffusors, to tame the room and make the source sond a little more decent.

Performer sucks, though....it's mostly myself. =;o
Old 29th December 2010
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Mytek AD96 is cheaper and also a huge step up from RME
Old 29th December 2010
  #23
Gear Head
 

....once ITB (I pick guitars as an example), I lowcut at around 60 Hz and usually add some 1-3 dB at 3 Khz, using the UAD Pultec.
Then a little delay, sometimes ambience and that's it.

Like I said, it doesn't sound bad, but it's just "flat".

When I listen to for example AC/DC (I know, I shouldn't compare my recordings with AC/DC , but it's just one of my favourits, soundwise....hpefully I don't get stoned, here) , even through the NS10s it feels like you can "grab" every tone they play.
Then I listen to my sh...t and the tone is hiding somewhere behind the speakers.
Old 29th December 2010
  #24
Gear Head
 

does the Mytec hold up to the Lavry? I'm happy about new suggestions.
Old 29th December 2010
  #25
Gear Addict
 

some prefer Mytek, some prefer Lavry.
some say the Mytek 192 sound better than the 96

those with even more money say Burl, some say UA 2192, some say HEDD...

it's really a matter of taste here. these are all excellent converters, but if what you feed them sounds digital, it will still sound digital in the end.

it's important to have a good converter, but these units won't give color or character to the sound. or very little.
Old 29th December 2010
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Audio Child's Avatar
 

How about using say a Mytek/Lavry over an Ensemble, would you actually hear a jump in quality or would you say they are on par ?
Old 29th December 2010
  #27
Lives for gear
 
FireMoon's Avatar
Don't forget the synergy of your system comes into it as well. I have had to learn this myself. Given what i have, which is nothing special, the fact is the whole lot adds up to a pretty *forward* sound that at times can sound a tad *clattery*. .

I say this in comparison to my domestic set up which is in the esoteric category. Stuff which often sounds *forward.* on my near fields actually can sound way too dull on my bigger system.

In the affordable area of monitoring, to my ears, the only monitors that do, true depth and don't chuck the information in your lap in a very revealing way, that tires the ears. relatively quickly, are those made by Harbeth and the Ls3/5 series of monitors.

See, in the battlefield of the show room comparison the Monitors that tend to win hands down are the ones that scream...Listen to me, hear the detail, etc etc. Trouble is, at home, they often reveal their true character which is, less than refined when you are listening at anything other than low levels. I use Blue Sky's and i like them, for the price they are really very good. However, my main system the bass/midrange drivers are in a different league and boy, does it show. There again, you won't find drivers like those in system costing less than 1500 bucks for passives.

In short, bung your existing DA through a slightly more *laid back* monitoring system and you might not be so keen on swapping it for something that is maybe 10% better all round for 3 times the price.

I understand where Bob Katz is going with his appraisal of near field monitoring,. The Harbeths and the Ls series of speakers are amongst the very few near fields that can be stood back from and still stand up as a cohesive whole.It's interesting that both sets of designs are British and relatively unknown in the USA.

It's a telling fact that. You hardly ever see Harbeths or the Ls series on EBAY
Old 29th December 2010
  #28
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug hazelrigg View Post
...I'll wager that while the conversion implementation of the Lavry and RME are roughly equal, I'd guess that the analog section of the Lavry can't be beat
There's lots of magical wishful thinking about gear that uses the same chips sounding the same.

There are actually a variety of modes that an A to D chip can be operated in that call for different circuit designs. People also forget that the clocking is analog and subject to all of the analog circuit issues. I'm told the biggest problem is simply isolating the analog audio from the RFI found in all digital circuitry.
Old 29th December 2010
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Child View Post
How about using say a Mytek/Lavry over an Ensemble, would you actually hear a jump in quality or would you say they are on par ?
i'd pick the RME over the Ensemble

Lavry / Mytek is superior to Rosetta as well.
Old 30th December 2010
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
Gearhero's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
There's lots of magical wishful thinking about gear that uses the same chips sounding the same.
.
There is even more magical wishful thinking that using the same gear that pros do will make your music sound pro.

I would put money down that no one can distinguish between RME and Lavry conversion in a properly designed blind test.
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