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Lavry Black AD-10 - noticable step-up from RME Multiface I converters? Audio Interfaces
Old 30th December 2010
  #31
I just started using my AD10 today. Really great converters. Crystal clear and "Pure" sounding. The emulations are for crap in my opinion. They add some weird (and ugly) noises to the signal but that's not why I bought the Lavry anyways.

I think I read that the AD11 is going to have preamps.
Old 30th December 2010
  #32
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhero View Post
I would put money down that no one can distinguish between RME and Lavry conversion in a properly designed blind test.
you obviously haven't tried one.
Old 30th December 2010
  #33
Gear Head
 

@ Paul David,

what converters where you using prior to the Lavry? How would you describe the difference?
Old 30th December 2010
  #34
Gear Head
 

@ taa4j6

have you compared those two units? I mean RME multiface vs. Lavry black?

If yes, how would you describe the difference?
Old 30th December 2010
  #35
Gear Addict
 

i've extensively compared my Echo Audiofire 8 (same ballpark as RME) and my Mytek AD96. I've only heard samples of RME & Lavry.

RME / Echo Audiofire / DIGI 002, all of these are good interfaces, but they really lack the fullness / 3Dness / extended frequency / dynamic range of Lavry / Mytek.

check out this comparison, it's a good example what to expect from the converter upgrade

Mytek converter v.s. Digi 002 converter:A/B Test here!

but don't forget Vampire Weekend made their first album with a DIGI 002 ... it's just a converter
Old 30th December 2010
  #36
Gear Head
 

Thank you, appreciate your help.
Old 30th December 2010
  #37
Lives for gear
 
TurboJets's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhero View Post
There is even more magical wishful thinking that using the same gear that pros do will make your music sound pro.

I would put money down that no one can distinguish between RME and Lavry conversion in a properly designed blind test.
Do yourself a huge favor and stop making statements like this, it reveals (as no big secret) your ignorance on this topic.

And the first part of this quoted reply has nothing to do with this discussion or this topic. When people inject stuff like "...using the same gear that pros do will make your music sound pro." it introduces a senseless distraction from the tangible and very real issues that are being addressed and discussed.

People with hands-on experience are offering valuable information here and it would behoove you to shut up, sit down, and listen. IMHO, of course...YMMV. Nothing personal.
Old 30th December 2010
  #38
Lavry Black AD-10 - noticable step-up from RME Multiface I converters?

Ive been using the kurzweil rumour as my A/D. I've got a 003 but the rumour is clearer and deeper than the 003.

I could post some audio samples of the three converters if you like.
Old 30th December 2010
  #39
Gear Head
 

I would really appreciate it, if you could post samples.
That would be great.

thx.
Old 30th December 2010
  #40
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhero View Post
I would put money down that no one can distinguish between RME and Lavry conversion in a properly designed blind test.

You 'would' put money down on that, or you 'will'?

Because if you 'will', I'll take you up on that offer... I likes the easy money. thumbsup


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 30th December 2010
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
Gearhero's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets View Post
Do yourself a huge favor and stop making statements like this, it reveals (as no big secret) your ignorance on this topic.

And the first part of this quoted reply has nothing to do with this discussion or this topic. When people inject stuff like "...using the same gear that pros do will make your music sound pro." it introduces a senseless distraction from the tangible and very real issues that are being addressed and discussed.

People with hands-on experience are offering valuable information here and it would behoove you to shut up, sit down, and listen. IMHO, of course...YMMV. Nothing personal.
The OP is asking if upgrading his converters will make his music sound less digital/unnatural and more professional. I am arguing that he would be better served by posting examples of his recordings so that we can determine what issues may be addressed. It may be that he does not need to spend any money to improve his recordings. Converters and their analogue components are a very mature technology. We are not going to see any major audio breakthroughs here. Economy of scale has made making a flat, accurate converter cheaper to manufacture than ever before. Both RME and Lavry measure flat sound wise. What you put in both of these devices is what you will get out. There is no mystery or magic involved just science.

And please cease the ad hominem attacks, they do nothing to help your argument. I suggest you do some basic research to gain an understanding of logic, and how biases and non-auditory cues affect what we hear.
Old 30th December 2010
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
Gearhero's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
You 'would' put money down on that, or you 'will'?

Because if you 'will', I'll take you up on that offer... I likes the easy money. thumbsup


Gregory Scott - ubk
How does $100 sound? Sent you a PM.
Old 31st December 2010
  #43
Lives for gear
 
doug hazelrigg's Avatar
I can't speak for the sound quality of Lavry, Mytek, Ensemble, or any of the higher end convertors. But I can say resolutely that when I bought an Apogee Rosetta back in like the year 2000, it made a big difference in the quality of my sound: smoother, warmer, better. And the Rosetta is a fairly old convertor; I assume things are even better now.
Old 31st December 2010
  #44
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doug hazelrigg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai-fish View Post
I just attached a short mp3, that might explain my issues better. For pre-prod purposes, the drums are EZ-Drummer .

Just to give you an idea and as always, I'll be more than happy to get all kinds of advices, to improve my mixes...feel free to bash this .
sounds pretty good to me, although the drums are kind of mixed back, I'd bring them up some. Honestly, it doesn't sound "digital" to me. What do I know?
Old 31st December 2010
  #45
Gear Head
 

@ doug hazelrigg

First of all, thank you for the reply. Yeah, I guess, I'm always shy of bringing the drums more up-front. I'll definately give it a try thumbsup.

Maby it's my perception, but everytime I compare my mix to any reference track, it seems to be less 3D, somehow "sterile" and it lack's punch and ambience.

I just hope, upgrading my converters, will be one step further to what I'm looking for. I know it won't get me all the way there....sadly I can't buy knowledge and experience .
Old 31st December 2010
  #46
Gear Maniac
 
Gearhero's Avatar
 

I like the sound of the guitars. You got a good beefy tone going on. This is opinion but my ears are fatigued by the same snare sample being used. If you could vary the samples or even the velocity it might make your track sound more natural. Otherwise good job.
Old 1st January 2011
  #47
Gear Head
 

Thank you ....yeah, don't like the drums either. They're going to be replaced by "real drums". It's just for "pre-production".
Old 1st January 2011
  #48
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

I had a few black lavrys... sold them. didn't like them. The Golds are good but the blacks are meh. (All in my opinion, of course).

I tried the Burl convertors... one word: awesome!!! I also dig Hedd192 as well.

If you're looking at a black Lavry, why not A/B test it against a Benchmark and see....
Old 1st January 2011
  #49
Gear Head
 

The MPCist

have you compared Benchmark against the Lavry black? They're supposed to be in the same league, right? The benchmark is way more expensive, though.

That means, I would have to buy both units, and then return either one, or both?! I guess that would be a little too expensive, as I don't have the money, to affor two units at the same time.
...also most dealers in Germany that sell Benchmarks don*t sell Lavry .
Old 2nd January 2011
  #50
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

If you're in Germany you seriously need to check out Lake People.

Lake People
Old 2nd January 2011
  #51
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doug hazelrigg's Avatar
I know this is gearslutz, where we talk about gear, and it's all good. But do think anybody anywhere (other than maybe a gearlsutz member ) has heard a tune, on the radio, iPod, MTV, or other medium, and said, "I think that song could have been recorded with a better A/D convertor?"

Conversion is important, but IMO once you're up in the higher priced units you're going to have quality, other things being equal
Old 2nd January 2011
  #52
Gear Head
 

@ Bob Olhsson:

Thank you for the advice. I've seen Lake People over here, but never heard anything about them. I'll definately check take them into consideration, too then.

They don't seem to be that expensive.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #53
I have about 20 files but they're a little too big to post here and my iWeb is not cooperating.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #54
Lives for gear
Lavry Black AD-10 - noticable step-up from RME Multiface I converters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhero

How does $100 sound? Sent you a PM.
That's $100 gone The Lavry sound is very distinguishable, even in the many shootouts on this site. And UBK clearly has been benchmarking a lot of the high end units recently.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #55
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

And to clarify, we're not talking about identifying which one sounds better, just whether there are differences in the sound that can be reliably detected.

The idea that *any* two pieces of hardware from different brands don't sound different in some way is alien to me. I've never experienced it, except with plugins, which generally sound the same to me from one to the next.

With something like 2 files from 2 different converters, just do a null. Is there residue? Of course there is; if there's residue, there are differences. Then it simply becomes a question of identifying what those differences are so you can spot them easily.

It's often quite surprising what even the average joe can hear if you spend 30 seconds training their ears to know exactly what to listen for. What novices generally lack is not the capacity to distinguish fine nuances, it's the understanding of where and how to focus their attention when all that sound is coming at them.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd January 2011
  #56
D K
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D K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
And to clarify, we're not talking about identifying which one sounds better, just whether there are differences in the sound that can be reliably detected.

The idea that *any* two pieces of hardware from different brands don't sound different in some way is alien to me. I've never experienced it, except with plugins, which generally sound the same to me from one to the next.

With something like 2 files from 2 different converters, just do a null. Is there residue? Of course there is; if there's residue, there are differences. Then it simply becomes a question of identifying what those differences are so you can spot them easily.

It's often quite surprising what even the average joe can hear if you spend 30 seconds training their ears to know exactly what to listen for. What novices generally lack is not the capacity to distinguish fine nuances, it's the understanding of where and how to focus their attention when all that sound is coming at them.


Gregory Scott - ubk

ubk,

I think you have hit on something very important and I would like to ask for you to expand on just what those things are that novices should be listening for when comparing converters. I hear differences between different brands of conversion but sometimes I am not sure why and sometimes it is in different areas...

For example.. When I compared the RME Multiface II to my old interface (Tascam 1884) which I believe you own as well? I always thought the Frontier converters sounded "sweeter" then the RME although I thought the RME was possibly more accurate.. When listening to the differences between my BLA modded Tango 24 and unmoded.. I thought the differences were far more pronounced with the mod being "cleaner" sounding at the top and tighter on the bottom..

What struck me most in all of those was differences in percussive sounds such as cymbals, Hats and reverb and delay tails.

My next step is SSL or Lynx but I wonder what it is you listen for specifically when comparing/evaluating conversion?
Old 2nd January 2011
  #57
Alright, I got em to load on my website. Just click converters up top. I have more samples but there's a few up there now.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #58
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doug hazelrigg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
And to clarify, we're not talking about identifying which one sounds better, just whether there are differences in the sound that can be reliably detected.
Exactly. Perfectly worded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr scott

It's often quite surprising what even the average joe can hear if you spend 30 seconds training their ears to know exactly what to listen for. What novices generally lack is not the capacity to distinguish fine nuances, it's the understanding of where and how to focus their attention when all that sound is coming at them.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Also perfectly stated. This is what I admire about you. Instead of just dismissing the novice, you quite truthfully explain that what he lacks is some ear training, not the innate ability to hear what the veteran does.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #59
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by D K View Post
...I wonder what it is you listen for specifically when comparing/evaluating conversion?

There's so much to listen for, but I definitely gravitate towards specific things first and with higher priority than others.

1) Overall texture. I'm a texture freak above all, I obsess over whether sounds are hard, soft, fat, tight, edgy, smooth, round, brittle. I know of no way to measure or objectify this.

2) Freq response. Everyone knows this one, it's easily measured and easy to hear.

3) Phase shift. This is what (imo) determines how focused the sound is, and how deep the soundstage is, it's easily measured but requires a more keen ear to hear.

4) Gel/glue. Some sounds have a way of coming together, some sounds do not. I'm not sure what the voodoo is here, and it can't be heard in single tracks, it can only be experienced when trying to mix groups of them.

That's what I listen for, not just with converters but with anything. What I don't give a damn about is fidelity. If the sound is identical, that's good. If it changes in a way I like, that's good. If it changes in a way I don't, that's a problem. I feel this way about compressors, eq's, and converters too, it doesn't matter what a piece is supposed to do, it only matters to me how I like it's sound and feel.

Btw, the reason your Frontier converters sound 'sweet' to you is they roll off the subs, bump the low mids, soften the treble, roll off the air, and smear the phase a little; which, as it so happens, is what a lot of vintage transformers do, as does tape. I think the Frontier d/a is responsible for most of the sweetness, the a/d is actually a little hard and crunchy to my ears but it's not obvious until you hear them thru neutral d/a's.

The Burl B2 a/d -> Frontier d/a is quite a lovely combo really, but I imagine when I upgrade to Burl d/a's I'll shed a tear or two at the improvements. Low end tightness and a pleasing hf extension, in particular, are what I feel the mid-grade converters of today lack, and what units like the Burl bring to the table in spades.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd January 2011
  #60
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai-fish View Post
The MPCist

have you compared Benchmark against the Lavry black? They're supposed to be in the same league, right? The benchmark is way more expensive, though.

That means, I would have to buy both units, and then return either one, or both?! I guess that would be a little too expensive, as I don't have the money, to affor two units at the same time.
...also most dealers in Germany that sell Benchmarks don*t sell Lavry .
I can't speak for others but personally, I do not like Lavry converters other than the Gold. The blue and black do not do it for me.

But at that level, I wouldn't buy both and return one.... See if you can demo each at their respective dealers and see which "speaks to you".... The Lavry Black isn't bad, just a different flavor of converters, that's all.
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