The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
High end headphone cables - what the balz is the deal???? and defoaming?? Studio Headphones
Old 27th December 2010
  #1
Lives for gear
 
thetalkinghead's Avatar
 

High end headphone cables - what the balz is the deal???? and defoaming??

I went through a whole ordeal to get my perfect set of headphones. You can learn all about my experience here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...house-etc.html

I ended up with the Sennheiser HD600. Really love this pair of headphones. I upgraded the cable to the one that comes with the HD650 for like $12. Now I see that there are all these super high end aftermarket cables that are supposed to make these cans sound much better. Sounds like a bunch of horse **** if you ask me. $250 for a cable????????? I also hear that people 'defoam' these cans and it changes the sound for the better, apparently.

My question is: Is there absolutely any truth in any of this? I'm not even gonna bother posting this on headfi.....
Old 27th December 2010
  #2
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

High end headphone cables - what the balz is the deal???? and defoaming??

$250 is cheap - I have seen cables for as much as $1,400!

Personally I have never bought an after-market cable and always used the one that came with the cans - and I do have £1,000 (€1,400) headphones (HD800).

My reasoning is that the designer balanced the sound of the headphones with the cable that would be supplied with them.

Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
Old 27th December 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Zep Dude's Avatar
 

Take a neurotic audiophile with lots of money to spend and convince him that conventional science doesn't tell the story when it comes to signal transmission down a wire, and suddenly everything from strange magic stones placed on a wire to battery powered cables make sense. Furthermore, completely ignore any blind testing with your product and make sure the salesmen tells the customer ahead of time how much better it will sound (and possibly even turn the volume up a bit when they do the switch) knowing that with audio, the power of suggestion can literally cause any desired effect, and you too can get someone to shell over thousands $$$ for a 3' wire.

There ARE potential improvements to be found with better cables, in certain areas, in certain situations, but assuming you already have high quality copper cable, it's a dangerous and slippery slope when you want to improve from there.

If you really want to experience this, find a company that will let you demo their cable and try to construct a blind test for listening (have someone else switch the cable while you are blindfolded etc).
Old 27th December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Zep Dude's Avatar
 

P.S. Don't forget the fact that if it comes down to spending hundreds on an "improved" cable, you might be better off spending that on a higher quality headphone amp which will almost certainly provide an audible improvement.
Old 27th December 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 
thetalkinghead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep Dude View Post
P.S. Don't forget the fact that if it comes down to spending hundreds on an "improved" cable, you might be better off spending that on a higher quality headphone amp which will almost certainly provide an audible improvement.
thats a good point, and thanks for the good ideas. i use my audio interface's headphone amps. its an apogee ensemble. should be pretty good quality, no? i mean i definitely didnt buy the unit for its headphone amps, but rather for its amazing conversion and preamps, although i would guess the headphone amps would be pretty good quality
Old 27th December 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetalkinghead View Post
I went through a whole ordeal to get my perfect set of headphones. You can learn all about my experience here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...house-etc.html

I ended up with the Sennheiser HD600. Really love this pair of headphones. I upgraded the cable to the one that comes with the HD650 for like $12. Now I see that there are all these super high end aftermarket cables that are supposed to make these cans sound much better. Sounds like a bunch of horse **** if you ask me. $250 for a cable????????? I also hear that people 'defoam' these cans and it changes the sound for the better, apparently.

My question is: Is there absolutely any truth in any of this? I'm not even gonna bother posting this on headfi.....
In my highly subjective opinion, there's doing the standard tweaks and then there's wasting money.

There are some fairly standard tweaks to the HD580 and HD600.

The HD650 cable is regarded as very slightly better and certainly more robust than the stock cable, but fully compatible as far as connection.

The HD600 grill is more open and less resonant than the thicker stock plastic grill on the HD580, so upgrading the grills on the HD580 is fairly standard and does make them slightly more natural and more like the HD600.

My HD580s have HD600 grills and HD650 cable and are most satisfactory (and were quite a bargain).

Many people also prefer to cut out the foam in front of the driver to increase transmission of sound in the HF region. This is typically done with a 3/4" socket on a concrete surface (... with the foam removed from the phones!)

I haven't done that tweak because I'm already pleased with the HF balance on the phones, and any increase would probably make them sound even less like speakers than they already do.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,

Otto
Old 27th December 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 

fancy cables and HD600 amps

cables:
OK, here's some blasphemy from a long-time audiophile: I've never heard a big difference in wires. Subtle, yes; big, no. I have heard fairly big differences between various connectors, and I have a sneaky suspicion that good connectors are the main reason that the pretentious cables sound better.

HD600 amps
Your interface is probably pretty good. If you're looking for a little project, put together the little Bottlehead Crack headphone amp. It's an OTL design based on the 6080/5998/421A tube, and makes hi-z phones really sing. Of course, as it's aimed at the home market, it's unbalanced, so you have to figure out how/where it'll fit in with your other gear. I use one with my HD800s and love it. Note: the "Speedball" p/s upgrade is worth it.
WW
Old 27th December 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Robonaut's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetalkinghead View Post
thats a good point, and thanks for the good ideas. i use my audio interface's headphone amps. its an apogee ensemble. should be pretty good quality, no? i mean i definitely didnt buy the unit for its headphone amps, but rather for its amazing conversion and preamps, although i would guess the headphone amps would be pretty good quality
A better headphone amp *may* provide you with a better sound, but I would definitely buy either a used unit that you can sell for what you paid for it or purchase new from a place with a generous return policy, as there's a good chance that it's not going to sound any better than what you already have.
Old 27th December 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Robonaut's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Way View Post
HD600 amps
Your interface is probably pretty good. If you're looking for a little project, put together the little Bottlehead Crack headphone amp. It's an OTL design based on the 6080/5998/421A tube, and makes hi-z phones really sing. Of course, as it's aimed at the home market, it's unbalanced, so you have to figure out how/where it'll fit in with your other gear. I use one with my HD800s and love it. Note: the "Speedball" p/s upgrade is worth it.
WW
While I personally like tube headphone amps for listening to music, for creating music I think that you might want to stay away from them since they tend to color the sound.
Old 28th December 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Zep Dude's Avatar
 

A really great headphone amp is the one in the Benchmark DAC. It was better than my "audiophile" Creek amp. It turns out they have it available as a stand alone unit for only $150, however you have to attach a power supply and mount it in a box. The Benchmark headphone amp has an amazing natural clarity and open sound that doesn't sound hyped at all, which is similar to the sound of their DA.

Most importantly, it's good enough that it will end your quest for a headphone amp and allow you to move on to your next gearslut obsession.
Old 8th December 2011
  #11
Here for the gear
 

headphone cables

I know this is an old posting, but I just stumbled across it and I feel like I want to add my 2 cents. The posting started with a gentleman asking about the expensive hi end cables for headphones. He has already done the standard switch to the Sennheiser HD 650 replacement cable for his new HD 600 phones. He received a number of replies the gist of which were that it was a waste of time and money to upgrade the cable beyond the standard 650 wire upgrade. I want to put in a dissenting vote. I bought a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 phones because I was looking for something better than the Sony 7506s I was using. I was rather dissapointed in the Senns initially. I am no "golden ear" audiophile, but I certainly could hear the famous "veil" that the golden ears talked about. The Senns were certainly laid back, way too laid back, especially in the mids. I was driving them from the headphone out from my NAD integrated amp. It had plenty of power and drove the 300 ohm Senns to very loud volumes without difficulty. I never had to rotate the volume control on the amp above the first third of its travel. But everything I read stated that this Sennheiser 6xx series of phones responded tremendously to really good amplification. I wanted a good external DAC anyway so I bought a refurbished Benchmark Media Systems DAC 1 that has a highly rated headphone amp built into it. The headphone amp is zero ohm impedance and was stated to be an excellent match for the Sennheiser HD 600 phones. So now I had a great DAC, great headphone amp, highly regarded headphones, and the upgraded factory cable for them. I still wasn't happy and, honestly, I didn't hear any great difference. I then began researching hi end headphone cables. Like most of you, I couldn't see paying $500 to $1500 for a piece of wire. Then I found a gentleman on eBay who was offering a replacement cable for the Sennheiser phones that was only $110. It was made of Canare Star Quad cable with top quality Cardas Senn-style connectors ( purported to be the highest quality Sennheiser style connectors on the market) on the headphone end and a top quality Neutrik 1/4 inch male TRS plug on the other. I did some reading about the Canare Star Quad and found out that it was as high quality a cable as that used in most of the copper cored super expensive hi end cables like Cardas. Being a cable originally designed for microphone connection, the Star Quad was extremely low impedance and very resistent to RFI. I decided to take a flyer since it was made of quality stuff and was very reasonably priced. When it got here, I snapped it into the Senns and sat down to listen to a selection of CDs that I had previously sorted out because they demonstrated the "problems" I had heard in the Sennheisers very well. I was totally blown away by the improvement! The "veil" was gone; the mids were much less recessed; the bass was quick and well defined with absolutely no tubbiness! I felt that the bass, mids, and highs were in much better balance that with the Sennheiser cable. Let me tell you, these improvements were not subtle things that you had to talk yourself into hearing. THey hit you right between the eyes. On eBay, there are a couple of people offering replacement headphone cables made out of the Canare Star Quad cable and good quality connectors. The gentleman I did business with bills himself as Carolina Cable Company and apparently works out of Mt. Pleasant, SC. I can attest to the fact that he does good work. There is also a vendor working out of Reno, NV. Both are very reasonably priced. If you are not satisfied with the chintzy wires the factory used with the HD 6xx series and HD 800 phones, give a quality cable made out of Canare Star Quad a try. You won't be tying up several hundred dollars. Both of the eBay vendors have a return policy if you don't like it. The Reno guy requires you contact him in three days following receipt of the cable if you want to return it; the South Carolina guy gives you seven days. However, if you try one of these cables along with some good amplification, I don't think you'll be returning anything. As I already stated, the difference is not subtle.
Old 13th July 2012
  #12
Here for the gear
 
olblueyez's Avatar
 

High end headphone cables - what the balz is the deal???? and defoaming??

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetalkinghead View Post
I went through a whole ordeal to get my perfect set of headphones. You can learn all about my experience here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...house-etc.html

I ended up with the Sennheiser HD600. Really love this pair of headphones. I upgraded the cable to the one that comes with the HD650 for like $12. Now I see that there are all these super high end aftermarket cables that are supposed to make these cans sound much better. Sounds like a bunch of horse **** if you ask me. $250 for a cable????????? I also hear that people 'defoam' these cans and it changes the sound for the better, apparently.

My question is: Is there absolutely any truth in any of this? I'm not even gonna bother posting this on headfi.....
The first thing I would do is completely eliminate any opinions based on inexperience, conspiracy theories, and most of all, people who can't stop themselves from parroting others who,,... Don't have experience, love to shun anything they don't understand, and parrot others who,,...

Here is an auction I posted recently, I'm showing you this because I was searching Google for a good Star Quad cable to buy in order to repair a set of Sennheiser PX-100II's that I like and I found your thread. My laptop died about a year ago and my music collection is only about 1500 songs. So she goes on the bay.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=38688236077

This is so you know I'm not just making this up like 99% of the people in this thread have. There is so much BS in this thread its sickening.

Your question does not have a yes or no answer. You need to ask yourself a few questions.

Do I have hearing problems? Probably not since you are recording and enjoy the improvements afforded by the HD600's. Let me guess, they told you to buy the 600's over the 650's because they are "More Accurate" or some BS like that right? This brings me to question 2.

Do I have the proper gear to merit having a nice headphone cable? By the looks of your signature you do. (I say this) because (for me) the biggest difference was distortion you normally accept as standard proceedure, (for me) was missing. Most notably in the lower bass and with female vocals. The very distortion we all accept when using almost all the everyday gear people use when they shop at BestBuy. Audioquest excluded :D I really think Audioquest has things figured out. "Like shielding and solid core wires are important", unlike Monster where the 2 dolla cable and the 400 dolla cable both have stranded wire and simular sheilding schemes.

What is the quality of the recordings I listen to? If its Jamariqui than get some gumy headphones at the grocery store, if its better than the hack job that A-Hole did on their stuff than you can be capable of appreciating a good headphone cable.

Do I listen to my headphones for long periods of time? If so than that "Lack of Distortion" I mentioned earlier, no matter how subtle or great will add up to you having a clear head at the end of the day instead of a headache. Like the 600's? Put some cheap azz cAns on for a day and see how your head feels that evening. The 600's were an improvement? The cable can add to that improvement in a big way. Enjoying the music "Long Term", and "In Comfort", without looking for details is one of the benefits.

Do I listen to the same music over and over with great repetition? Stupid people think that "Any improvement in sound quality can be pinned down in moments". They are usually the same people who dismiss or accept sound quality based on the price tag attached to it INSPITE of their glaring lack of experience and pig headed stubbornness. Price has nothing to do with it and it never will. When people start bashing because "its cheap" or "its expensive" than you know you have a loon on your hands. Its about how it sounds and I have never in my entire life, witnessed ANYONE listen to music through a dollar bill or an empty pocket. If you want to hear the difference, plug the cable in, sit back, and don't go lookin for the differences, just listen to the music. Then at some point, an hour, a day, or even a week later you will hear some bass drums on a familiar song and realize "They never sounded like that before". When you have that first moment, sure, go back and repeat it just to make sure you heard it right the first time. And the more you listen, the more you will hear.

My personal take on this is, you don't need a 500 dollar Stefan Audio Art cable unless you can afford it and its easier to just order one. But I would ABSOLUTLY have some one make you a good cable or scour the internet looking for a good one.

The Must Have List:
Solid Copper Conductors
Solid Copper Conductors
Solid Copper Conductors

I had an Amature make me a cable for my 650's because it was cheaper than the Stefan I ended up with. It was advertized to me as copper. He screwed me around for a couple of months and I got pissed. So he decided, without asking me, to build me the cable with some kind silver coated copper, solid silver, whatever. It sounded more clear "open" than the OEM, but it was like someone cranked the treble and ditched the lows. I sent it back and ordered the Stefan but I was leary after that experience. Plugged the Stefan cable in and my prescious 650's were back. A few hours later I was listening to Lou Rawls "Black & Blue" and one of the songs opens with a super hard snare drum and that was when I realized the Stefan was a winner.

Why did I write this? I guess because I saw so many morons trying to ruin it for someone, and with no good reason.

All the people who say "Get the 650 cable"???!!?!? You really think a 15 dollar cable will improve anything when according to them people like me "experienced" are loons?

Defoam Your Senn's?????????????????????? Go ahead and defoam your beautiful headphones that you love. And while your at it, you can spray paint them gold, get a pine tree air freshener to hang on the headband, and get some spinners for the speaker grills!!!!! :D

Have a good one.
Old 18th July 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
thetalkinghead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
The first thing I would do is completely eliminate any opinions based on inexperience, conspiracy theories, and most of all, people who can't stop themselves from parroting others who,,... Don't have experience, love to shun anything they don't understand, and parrot others who,,...

Here is an auction I posted recently, I'm showing you this because I was searching Google for a good Star Quad cable to buy in order to repair a set of Sennheiser PX-100II's that I like and I found your thread. My laptop died about a year ago and my music collection is only about 1500 songs. So she goes on the bay.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=38688236077

This is so you know I'm not just making this up like 99% of the people in this thread have. There is so much BS in this thread its sickening.

Your question does not have a yes or no answer. You need to ask yourself a few questions.

Do I have hearing problems? Probably not since you are recording and enjoy the improvements afforded by the HD600's. Let me guess, they told you to buy the 600's over the 650's because they are "More Accurate" or some BS like that right? This brings me to question 2.

Do I have the proper gear to merit having a nice headphone cable? By the looks of your signature you do. (I say this) because (for me) the biggest difference was distortion you normally accept as standard proceedure, (for me) was missing. Most notably in the lower bass and with female vocals. The very distortion we all accept when using almost all the everyday gear people use when they shop at BestBuy. Audioquest excluded :D I really think Audioquest has things figured out. "Like shielding and solid core wires are important", unlike Monster where the 2 dolla cable and the 400 dolla cable both have stranded wire and simular sheilding schemes.

What is the quality of the recordings I listen to? If its Jamariqui than get some gumy headphones at the grocery store, if its better than the hack job that A-Hole did on their stuff than you can be capable of appreciating a good headphone cable.

Do I listen to my headphones for long periods of time? If so than that "Lack of Distortion" I mentioned earlier, no matter how subtle or great will add up to you having a clear head at the end of the day instead of a headache. Like the 600's? Put some cheap azz cAns on for a day and see how your head feels that evening. The 600's were an improvement? The cable can add to that improvement in a big way. Enjoying the music "Long Term", and "In Comfort", without looking for details is one of the benefits.

Do I listen to the same music over and over with great repetition? Stupid people think that "Any improvement in sound quality can be pinned down in moments". They are usually the same people who dismiss or accept sound quality based on the price tag attached to it INSPITE of their glaring lack of experience and pig headed stubbornness. Price has nothing to do with it and it never will. When people start bashing because "its cheap" or "its expensive" than you know you have a loon on your hands. Its about how it sounds and I have never in my entire life, witnessed ANYONE listen to music through a dollar bill or an empty pocket. If you want to hear the difference, plug the cable in, sit back, and don't go lookin for the differences, just listen to the music. Then at some point, an hour, a day, or even a week later you will hear some bass drums on a familiar song and realize "They never sounded like that before". When you have that first moment, sure, go back and repeat it just to make sure you heard it right the first time. And the more you listen, the more you will hear.

My personal take on this is, you don't need a 500 dollar Stefan Audio Art cable unless you can afford it and its easier to just order one. But I would ABSOLUTLY have some one make you a good cable or scour the internet looking for a good one.

The Must Have List:
Solid Copper Conductors
Solid Copper Conductors
Solid Copper Conductors

I had an Amature make me a cable for my 650's because it was cheaper than the Stefan I ended up with. It was advertized to me as copper. He screwed me around for a couple of months and I got pissed. So he decided, without asking me, to build me the cable with some kind silver coated copper, solid silver, whatever. It sounded more clear "open" than the OEM, but it was like someone cranked the treble and ditched the lows. I sent it back and ordered the Stefan but I was leary after that experience. Plugged the Stefan cable in and my prescious 650's were back. A few hours later I was listening to Lou Rawls "Black & Blue" and one of the songs opens with a super hard snare drum and that was when I realized the Stefan was a winner.

Why did I write this? I guess because I saw so many morons trying to ruin it for someone, and with no good reason.

All the people who say "Get the 650 cable"???!!?!? You really think a 15 dollar cable will improve anything when according to them people like me "experienced" are loons?

Defoam Your Senn's?????????????????????? Go ahead and defoam your beautiful headphones that you love. And while your at it, you can spray paint them gold, get a pine tree air freshener to hang on the headband, and get some spinners for the speaker grills!!!!! :D

Have a good one.
i much prefer my hd600s over the hd650s. i listened to both extensively and i much prefer the 600s. they sound SO much better. the 650s have WAY too much bass its pretty insane.
Old 18th July 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
thetalkinghead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLGiordano View Post
I know this is an old posting, but I just stumbled across it and I feel like I want to add my 2 cents. The posting started with a gentleman asking about the expensive hi end cables for headphones. He has already done the standard switch to the Sennheiser HD 650 replacement cable for his new HD 600 phones. He received a number of replies the gist of which were that it was a waste of time and money to upgrade the cable beyond the standard 650 wire upgrade. I want to put in a dissenting vote. I bought a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 phones because I was looking for something better than the Sony 7506s I was using. I was rather dissapointed in the Senns initially. I am no "golden ear" audiophile, but I certainly could hear the famous "veil" that the golden ears talked about. The Senns were certainly laid back, way too laid back, especially in the mids. I was driving them from the headphone out from my NAD integrated amp. It had plenty of power and drove the 300 ohm Senns to very loud volumes without difficulty. I never had to rotate the volume control on the amp above the first third of its travel. But everything I read stated that this Sennheiser 6xx series of phones responded tremendously to really good amplification. I wanted a good external DAC anyway so I bought a refurbished Benchmark Media Systems DAC 1 that has a highly rated headphone amp built into it. The headphone amp is zero ohm impedance and was stated to be an excellent match for the Sennheiser HD 600 phones. So now I had a great DAC, great headphone amp, highly regarded headphones, and the upgraded factory cable for them. I still wasn't happy and, honestly, I didn't hear any great difference. I then began researching hi end headphone cables. Like most of you, I couldn't see paying $500 to $1500 for a piece of wire. Then I found a gentleman on eBay who was offering a replacement cable for the Sennheiser phones that was only $110. It was made of Canare Star Quad cable with top quality Cardas Senn-style connectors ( purported to be the highest quality Sennheiser style connectors on the market) on the headphone end and a top quality Neutrik 1/4 inch male TRS plug on the other. I did some reading about the Canare Star Quad and found out that it was as high quality a cable as that used in most of the copper cored super expensive hi end cables like Cardas. Being a cable originally designed for microphone connection, the Star Quad was extremely low impedance and very resistent to RFI. I decided to take a flyer since it was made of quality stuff and was very reasonably priced. When it got here, I snapped it into the Senns and sat down to listen to a selection of CDs that I had previously sorted out because they demonstrated the "problems" I had heard in the Sennheisers very well. I was totally blown away by the improvement! The "veil" was gone; the mids were much less recessed; the bass was quick and well defined with absolutely no tubbiness! I felt that the bass, mids, and highs were in much better balance that with the Sennheiser cable. Let me tell you, these improvements were not subtle things that you had to talk yourself into hearing. THey hit you right between the eyes. On eBay, there are a couple of people offering replacement headphone cables made out of the Canare Star Quad cable and good quality connectors. The gentleman I did business with bills himself as Carolina Cable Company and apparently works out of Mt. Pleasant, SC. I can attest to the fact that he does good work. There is also a vendor working out of Reno, NV. Both are very reasonably priced. If you are not satisfied with the chintzy wires the factory used with the HD 6xx series and HD 800 phones, give a quality cable made out of Canare Star Quad a try. You won't be tying up several hundred dollars. Both of the eBay vendors have a return policy if you don't like it. The Reno guy requires you contact him in three days following receipt of the cable if you want to return it; the South Carolina guy gives you seven days. However, if you try one of these cables along with some good amplification, I don't think you'll be returning anything. As I already stated, the difference is not subtle.


very cool man! can you post a link?
Old 18th July 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Granny Gremlin's Avatar
 

Yeah, audio voodoo etc, but have you ever had to replace a bad jack (or something) on a pair of cans? The wire most (not all, but most - even high end) cans use is pretty ****. Like 1000 guage with that annoying per strand insulation you have to burn off.

If you have a pair of cans you really like and use a lot it does make sense to replace the cables with something more solid and substantial. I mean just proper wire and no gimmiks or fancypants BS.

Senns, as far as I have seen use better wire than most (even on the low end stuff), but just about anything else I'd consider replacing (I recently recabled a guy's Bose cans with Canare L-2B2AT wire that I had lying around as one channel's wire was about to snap - for the price those go for you'd think they could use something better than what you'd find on $5 earbuds).
Old 20th July 2012
  #16
Here for the gear
 
olblueyez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetalkinghead View Post
i much prefer my hd600s over the hd650s. i listened to both extensively and i much prefer the 600s. they sound SO much better. the 650s have WAY too much bass its pretty insane.

What's your point?
Old 20th July 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
thetalkinghead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
What's your point?
this is my point.

you said this: Let me guess, they told you to buy the 600's over the 650's because they are "More Accurate" or some BS like that right?

And I am saying that nobody told me.. i can hear with my ears that the 600s are more accurate than the 650s. The 650s sound like they are boosted 75db in the bass.
Old 21st July 2012
  #18
Here for the gear
 
olblueyez's Avatar
 

High end headphone cables - what the balz is the deal???? and defoaming??

They do sound that way, to some people, using different kinds of equipment, and according to your taste.

I don't know about you, but every live performance I've been to the bass and low mids had a physical impact. With the right equipment, that is easier to reproduce using the 650's without resorting to tubes. I did the tube thing but I found myself liking particular tubes for certain songs and albums and never was able to find a set that I liked in general.

The Stello gear did it for me, solid, clean, plenty of impact in the lows but without the rough highs and high mids you get with so much of the solid state gear. It was a good match for the 650's and I enjoyed it very much.

Sinatra live at the Sands, you can hear the silverware clanging in the audience, Dinah Washington clearing her throat, etc. None of that was disearnable when the 650's were plugged into a receiver or an ipod etc.

I think if you took some random people and had them compare both sets using your average headphone section in a CD player, or Receiver than yes, the majority might say the 650's are bass heavy. Personally I think the 650's sound more natural in a good system. The bass should be felt as well as heard.

These are 300ohm cans though, and not easy to drive. Thus all the "The 600's are more accurate." comments all over the internet.

But hey, if you consider people who disagree with you as having inaccurate hearing in spite of all the variables that's ok. I just mentioned that because tons of people will influence others for the wrong reasons or because they just love to parrot others.

For recording, I would recommend anyone reading this, consider the Beyerdynamic 880's at 150ohm. They have very little color and the round ear cups are super comfortable.
Old 22nd July 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
thetalkinghead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
They do sound that way, to some people, using different kinds of equipment, and according to your taste.

I don't know about you, but every live performance I've been to the bass and low mids had a physical impact. With the right equipment, that is easier to reproduce using the 650's without resorting to tubes. I did the tube thing but I found myself liking particular tubes for certain songs and albums and never was able to find a set that I liked in general.

The Stello gear did it for me, solid, clean, plenty of impact in the lows but without the rough highs and high mids you get with so much of the solid state gear. It was a good match for the 650's and I enjoyed it very much.

Sinatra live at the Sands, you can hear the silverware clanging in the audience, Dinah Washington clearing her throat, etc. None of that was disearnable when the 650's were plugged into a receiver or an ipod etc.

I think if you took some random people and had them compare both sets using your average headphone section in a CD player, or Receiver than yes, the majority might say the 650's are bass heavy. Personally I think the 650's sound more natural in a good system. The bass should be felt as well as heard.

These are 300ohm cans though, and not easy to drive. Thus all the "The 600's are more accurate." comments all over the internet.

But hey, if you consider people who disagree with you as having inaccurate hearing in spite of all the variables that's ok. I just mentioned that because tons of people will influence others for the wrong reasons or because they just love to parrot others.

For recording, I would recommend anyone reading this, consider the Beyerdynamic 880's at 150ohm. They have very little color and the round ear cups are super comfortable.
i haveapair of 770 pros. hated them for a while but getting used to them now and using as a second pairfor reference but mostly for tracking vocals. i forget how the 880s compare to them
Old 22nd July 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
thetalkinghead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
They do sound that way, to some people, using different kinds of equipment, and according to your taste.

I don't know about you, but every live performance I've been to the bass and low mids had a physical impact. With the right equipment, that is easier to reproduce using the 650's without resorting to tubes. I did the tube thing but I found myself liking particular tubes for certain songs and albums and never was able to find a set that I liked in general.

The Stello gear did it for me, solid, clean, plenty of impact in the lows but without the rough highs and high mids you get with so much of the solid state gear. It was a good match for the 650's and I enjoyed it very much.

Sinatra live at the Sands, you can hear the silverware clanging in the audience, Dinah Washington clearing her throat, etc. None of that was disearnable when the 650's were plugged into a receiver or an ipod etc.

I think if you took some random people and had them compare both sets using your average headphone section in a CD player, or Receiver than yes, the majority might say the 650's are bass heavy. Personally I think the 650's sound more natural in a good system. The bass should be felt as well as heard.

These are 300ohm cans though, and not easy to drive. Thus all the "The 600's are more accurate." comments all over the internet.

But hey, if you consider people who disagree with you as having inaccurate hearing in spite of all the variables that's ok. I just mentioned that because tons of people will influence others for the wrong reasons or because they just love to parrot others.

For recording, I would recommend anyone reading this, consider the Beyerdynamic 880's at 150ohm. They have very little color and the round ear cups are super comfortable.
i haveapair of 770 pros. hated them for a while but getting used to them now and using as a second pairfor reference but mostly for tracking vocals. i forget how the 880s compare to them
Old 22nd July 2012
  #21
Gear Addict
 
gransonik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
My reasoning is that the designer balanced the sound of the headphones with the cable that would be supplied with them.

Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
+1! I've owned way too many headphones over the years and dislike all kinds of popular "DIY mods" (mostly blu tak on closed headphones which screw up the response completely) or upgrade cables for exactly that reason. However one obvious case of hearing cable differences for the better are the Sennheiser HD25-1 which come with a steel cable. Exchange that with the cable of the HD600/650 and there you go. Less sibliance and annoying treble, better dynamics.
Old 22nd July 2012
  #22
Here for the gear
 
olblueyez's Avatar
 

High end headphone cables - what the balz is the deal???? and defoaming??

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetalkinghead View Post
i haveapair of 770 pros. hated them for a while but getting used to them now and using as a second pairfor reference but mostly for tracking vocals. i forget how the 880s compare to them

I think you will find the 880 has less color and a much better resolution of the mids and highs. Its just my opinion mind you, but for tracking vocals I would much prefer the 880's. I'm not sure if Beyer still does this but they used to do custom 770/990/880 headphones. And you could order them 32ohm for portables, 150ohm for something like a mixer, and 300ohm for a high end headphone amp.
Old 22nd July 2012
  #23
Here for the gear
 
olblueyez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gransonik View Post
+1! I've owned way too many headphones over the years and dislike all kinds of popular "DIY mods" (mostly blu tak on closed headphones which screw up the response completely) or upgrade cables for exactly that reason. However one obvious case of hearing cable differences for the better are the Sennheiser HD25-1 which come with a steel cable. Exchange that with the cable of the HD600/650 and there you go. Less sibliance and annoying treble, better dynamics.

Good copper cables, or even silver, are expensive, its no surprise better cables are not standard on most headphones. At least some of these companies make the cables modular so they can be swapped out with ease. The average person doesn't spend that much on headphones anyway and why not have them replace the entire headphone instead of replacing a broken cable.
Old 22nd July 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
cinealta's Avatar
 

Sounds like a lot of "audiophiles" have never taken college level physics. Copper is a metal element. Electrons travel in metals the same way. There is no difference in their behavior except according to Ohm's law.
Old 22nd July 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Magucci's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Sounds like a lot of "audiophiles" have never taken college level physics. Copper is a metal element. Electrons travel in metals the same way. There is no difference in their behavior except according to Ohm's law.


good old theory....but millions miles away from reality.
Old 22nd July 2012
  #26
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gransonik View Post
+1! I've owned way too many headphones over the years and dislike all kinds of popular "DIY mods" (mostly blu tak on closed headphones which screw up the response completely) or upgrade cables for exactly that reason. However one obvious case of hearing cable differences for the better are the Sennheiser HD25-1 which come with a steel cable. Exchange that with the cable of the HD600/650 and there you go. Less sibliance and annoying treble, better dynamics.
As a guy who was the only voice of reason in the audiophile shop I worked in, I can tell you, most assuredly, that most audiophiles are well meaning, and just wanting to one up themselves, someone else, etc. But, they are the hardest to teach PROVEN SCIENTIFIC FACTS. They want to believe that manufacturers make mistakes, know less than someone on YouTube, etc. Everything is suspect. They spend more time talking about the gear, than experiencing the music. I found that a good percentage listen to audiophile trade show music, or indie music that just plain sucks. So many times I had guys bring in their CD libraries, trying to find speakers to make their SH&T recordings sound good. One poor guy was never satisfied. What worked for one disc would not work for another. When he finally purchased a pair of speakers, he could not make them work in his all wood room, with asymmetrical walls, doorways, windows, etc.

One time we had some rich old fart come in to purchase some $6k phono "interconnects" (a fancy word for cables). These cables were crap, honestly. They made a huge difference in sound by design. The difference was not good. This deaf old coot could not hear me talking from across the room, and could not hear me rubbing my fingers together behind his head when he was not expecting me, but he swore he could hear a difference in extended high frequencies.

The other thing these fools believe is that they must have amps, speakers and cables capable of reproducing audio out to 40k plus. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Once I explained mastering, the names and model numbers of the mics capable of capturing that, and how none of them are linear, how none of them were used on their 1960s audiophile records, how our auditory system is not linear up there, how much power would be required to reproduce 30kHz at the same SPL as 1kHz, and how they would need to buy another fire extinguisher for their listening room....they still refused to accept it. Whatever.

I made a bunch of money selling custom cables with funky colored Neutrik NC3XX connectors with Beldon cable and wire dressing. I told them to keep the wire runs parallel to the floor with toilet paper dowels to reduce interference, and they ate that crap up. Silly.
Old 22nd July 2012
  #27
Here for the gear
 
olblueyez's Avatar
 

High end headphone cables - what the balz is the deal???? and defoaming??

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
As a guy who was the only voice of reason in the audiophile shop I worked in, I can tell you, most assuredly, that most audiophiles are well meaning, and just wanting to one up themselves, someone else, etc. But, they are the hardest to teach PROVEN SCIENTIFIC FACTS. They want to believe that manufacturers make mistakes, know less than someone on YouTube, etc. Everything is suspect. They spend more time talking about the gear, than experiencing the music. I found that a good percentage listen to audiophile trade show music, or indie music that just plain sucks. So many times I had guys bring in their CD libraries, trying to find speakers to make their SH&T recordings sound good. One poor guy was never satisfied. What worked for one disc would not work for another. When he finally purchased a pair of speakers, he could not make them work in his all wood room, with asymmetrical walls, doorways, windows, etc.



One time we had some rich old fart come in to purchase some $6k phono "interconnects" (a fancy word for cables). These cables were crap, honestly. They made a huge difference in sound by design. The difference was not good. This deaf old coot could not hear me talking from across the room, and could not hear me rubbing my fingers together behind his head when he was not expecting me, but he swore he could hear a difference in extended high frequencies.



The other thing these fools believe is that they must have amps, speakers and cables capable of reproducing audio out to 40k plus. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Once I explained mastering, the names and model numbers of the mics capable of capturing that, and how none of them are linear, how none of them were used on their 1960s audiophile records, how our auditory system is not linear up there, how much power would be required to reproduce 30kHz at the same SPL as 1kHz, and how they would need to buy another fire extinguisher for their listening room....they still refused to accept it. Whatever.



I made a bunch of money selling custom cables with funky colored Neutrik NC3XX connectors with Beldon cable and wire dressing. I told them to keep the wire runs parallel to the floor with toilet paper dowels to reduce interference, and they ate that crap up. Silly.

Most of the sales people I've run into at shops like yours would rather put a customer that needs help in a ditch to make a buck and have never spent any quality with the gear they sell except maybe through a mixing board. This is why people seek opinions from other users who actually used the equipment at home to enjoy their music. Only difference between you and most of the sales parrots is they aren't stupid enough to admit they don't know much and are only interested in making money.

But hey dude, since you brought up the "Scientific Facts" please do explain them to all of us in great detail. I will assume you don't even know what scientific facts apply to the conversation and you won't be able to teach us a damn thing.
Old 23rd July 2012
  #28
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Most of the sales people I've run into at shops like yours would rather put a customer that needs help in a ditch to make a buck and have never spent any quality with the gear they sell except maybe through a mixing board. This is why people seek opinions from other users who actually used the equipment at home to enjoy their music. Only difference between you and most of the sales parrots is they aren't stupid enough to admit they don't know much and are only interested in making money.

But hey dude, since you brought up the "Scientific Facts" please do explain them to all of us in great detail. I will assume you don't even know what scientific facts apply to the conversation and you won't be able to teach us a damn thing.
Look "dude", I did them a favor. Instead of selling them a 6k pair of cables that were nothing more than cheap cable and knock off Chinese connectors with some bull crap sales pitch, I sold them good Neutrik connectors, with good Beldon cable. If they want to believe that running all of their cables on toilet paper dowels keeps the + and - running equally and EMF radiating away from the cable equally, then I can't change that and it doesn't make any difference, because I charged only for the materials plus labor. These cables were generally much cheaper than their "low-end Monster" cables. In some cases I talked them out of cable that was directional, with the conductors completely separated. There was not twisted pair, and their was no shielding of a coax. These guys would come in and complain about noise and RF. No kidding. Wonder why.

Me agreeing to their toilet paper dowel thing was tongue in cheek. Sometimes the power of suggestion over-rides the power of reason and reality. Audiophiles are part of a religious cult. Their Mecca is hotel in Colorado, where they all return and kick the tires, tell lies and boast about things that are unseen and unheard. Rather than enjoying music, they enjoy talking about what they use to make music, and brag about it. Sounds kind of like Gearslutz.
Old 23rd July 2012
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
Yann Leon's Avatar
 

I had the same hd600 and yes, without the foam, it sounds less muffled. But.....it depends on what you like the most: chirurgical high def... or warm and cosy sounds?

Also...the preamp is more important than the cable in my own opinion.

After trying a lot of combinaison and such...I finally save money for the big one : HD800. So no more need for 'best cables' nor any further tweaking.

Sometime, the sum of add-ons to upgrade average tools cost more than paying for a better tool.
Old 23rd July 2012
  #30
Here for the gear
 
olblueyez's Avatar
 

High end headphone cables - what the balz is the deal???? and defoaming??

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
Look "dude", I did them a favor. Instead of selling them a 6k pair of cables that were nothing more than cheap cable and knock off Chinese connectors with some bull crap sales pitch, I sold them good Neutrik connectors, with good Beldon cable. If they want to believe that running all of their cables on toilet paper dowels keeps the + and - running equally and EMF radiating away from the cable equally, then I can't change that and it doesn't make any difference, because I charged only for the materials plus labor. These cables were generally much cheaper than their "low-end Monster" cables. In some cases I talked them out of cable that was directional, with the conductors completely separated. There was not twisted pair, and their was no shielding of a coax. These guys would come in and complain about noise and RF. No kidding. Wonder why.

Me agreeing to their toilet paper dowel thing was tongue in cheek. Sometimes the power of suggestion over-rides the power of reason and reality. Audiophiles are part of a religious cult. Their Mecca is hotel in Colorado, where they all return and kick the tires, tell lies and boast about things that are unseen and unheard. Rather than enjoying music, they enjoy talking about what they use to make music, and brag about it. Sounds kind of like Gearslutz.

Just as I thought, your able to spew the sales pitch they taught you and nothing more. You don't even have a grasp of your competition but your able to tell people if they are nuts.

"Shielding makes a difference" is all of your "Scientific Facts". How typical.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Aaron Rash / High end
146
edwardsean / So much gear, so little time
7
Westlake HR1 / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
1

Forum Jump
Forum Jump