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I have a problem!
Old 23rd January 2006
  #1
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Cojo's Avatar
 

I have a problem!

I have a problem!

To make a long story short... I have a couple of tracks that is mixed in the "wrong enviroment" (my livingroom) and you all knows what can happen then? You guessed it, my kick is sounding verry weak, no punch at all! Since I have only the stereomix it's a bit of a problem to just beef the kickdrum up without making the bassline to bassy.

So my question is: is it possible to fix this or is the only solution to record everything over again?

/Cojo
Old 23rd January 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cojo
I have a problem!

To make a long story short... I have a couple of tracks that is mixed in the "wrong enviroment" (my livingroom) and you all knows what can happen then? You guessed it, my kick is sounding verry weak, no punch at all! Since I have only the stereomix it's a bit of a problem to just beef the kickdrum up without making the bassline to bassy.

So my question is: is it possible to fix this or is the only solution to record everything over again?

/Cojo
To record it all over again is not the only solution, it's the best solution though.
If you don't want to record it all over again and you want punch I would suggest that you first make it as dry as possible, no reverbs, delays or anything. Then clone the track. On the second track you filter out all except the punch frequencies, so leave 100 - 250 Hz left on that track. Now route these two tracks to a group channel. Apply 4 compressors on top of the group channel, 3 with increasing compression ratio:

-1st compressor:
-5 dB threshold
2:00 ratio
low release

-2nd compressor
-10 dB threshold
3:00 ratio
low release

-3rd compressor
-15 dB threshold
4:00 ratio
low release

-4th multi-band compressor

Adjust the track volume level and multi-band compressor until it is punchy enough. I suggest you gate it a bit before the effects.
Old 23rd January 2006
  #3
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

This could be a very whack suggestion but try laying a kick sample in by ear and blend it in. See what happens. Kinda like mixing a vocal into a karaoke track.
Old 23rd January 2006
  #4
AB3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo
This could be a very whack suggestion but try laying a kick sample in by ear and blend it in. See what happens. Kinda like mixing a vocal into a karaoke track.
Not a bad idea - and sometimes it is best to even remove the original kick track (even then there is some bleed through) while putting in the better kick sound. This can be tedius, but worth it - the tedious part is putting the sound in the most approximate locations.
Old 23rd January 2006
  #5
CKK
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CKK's Avatar
 

I think you guys mist the point - He only got his stereomix to work with (2 trax).

Run your signal though an spectrum analyzer (a good one). Look closely in the bottom end of the signal, and find your bassdrum (a little spike should apear everytime the kick hits). It could take some time to find it since the bass mostly uses the same freq. as the kick, but there should be at least one or two points where its only the kicks freq you see.

Then try to boost those freq. slightly (with a high Q value).

The same can be done with the high freq. of the kick (a slight boost in the high freq. will help the listener locating the kick, and help him/her hearing the bottom end of the kick).

BUT THE BEST WOULD BE TO REMIX YOUR TRACKS IF POSSIBLE
Old 23rd January 2006
  #6
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
If you're pleased with the performance then don't re-record a damn thing unless you feel that the musicians involved can beat the performance.

Audio is just audio but performance is the music!!!

You might want to think about sending that stereo mix to a good mastering engineer as they will have a superior set of ears and a superior tool set to anything you can do at home.

I can't tell you how many times a good mastering engineer has totally saved my ass... they can often perform miracles with 2 track product... which in my world is a good thing.

Best of luck with it.
Old 23rd January 2006
  #7
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Cojo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo
This could be a very whack suggestion but try laying a kick sample in by ear and blend it in. See what happens. Kinda like mixing a vocal into a karaoke track.
I've actually tried this once but it was verry difficult to get the new kick in phase with the old. So I ended up connecting a gate with a slow attack on the additional kick. It did get punchier but it didn't sound good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKK
CUT-->Run your signal though an spectrum analyzer (a good one). Look closely in the bottom end of the signal, and find your bassdrum (a little spike should apear everytime the kick hits). It could take some time to find it since the bass mostly uses the same freq. as the kick, but there should be at least one or two points where its only the kicks freq you see.<--CUT
Yeah, I'we tried this briefly. I'll try it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher
If you're pleased with the performance then don't re-record a damn thing unless you feel that the musicians involved can beat the performance.

Audio is just audio but performance is the music!!!

You might want to think about sending that stereo mix to a good mastering engineer as they will have a superior set of ears and a superior tool set to anything you can do at home.

I can't tell you how many times a good mastering engineer has totally saved my ass... they can often perform miracles with 2 track product... which in my world is a good thing.

Best of luck with it.
Yes I'm pleased with the performance. It's me, myself and I! heh

The problem is that I was to lazy to record every track, and as it only was synths and midi I recorded it "live" to two tracks. How could I be so stupid! I've learned my lesson though! Now I want to repair the damage.

About mastering: are they really THAT good so that they can do wonder? Sounds great, the thing is that this is going to be a demo and I'm not willing to master it before any recordlabel says OK.

Thanks everybody for your advice/advise (don't remeber)

/Cojo
Old 23rd January 2006
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cojo
The problem is that I was to lazy to record every track, and as it only was synths and midi I recorded it "live" to two tracks.
/Cojo
Sorry to appear dull on this matter... but....by that statement... Do you not still have the midi parts that you could take the kick channel & trigger a new additional sample (that would rectify the situation) in a session with only your mix & kick ?
Old 23rd January 2006
  #9
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Cojo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muziqfreek
Sorry to appear dull on this matter... but....by that statement... Do you not still have the midi parts that you could take the kick channel & trigger a new additional sample (that would rectify the situation) in a session with only your mix & kick ?
Hi, thanks for helping!

Yes I got the midiparts, no sounds and settings though (everthing old analog synths). I have tried this awhile ago and it did not workout well because the midi did not deliver sample accurate sync so I got awhole lot of phase problems. One way is to record the kick again and then cut up all hits and place them by hand!?

Although I hve a feeling, this is the way to go!

Another way I'm thinkin about is if there is a way to apply EQ just when the kick hits. Then it would be possible to have one EQ setting when the kick strikes and one for the bass in between and then compress the low freqs in some kind!? Maby I'm way out, doing bicycling here? Any experience somebody?

/Cojo
Old 23rd January 2006
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cojo
Hi, thanks for helping!

Yes I got the midiparts, no sounds and settings though (everthing old analog synths). I have tried this awhile ago and it did not workout well because the midi did not deliver sample accurate sync so I got awhole lot of phase problems. One way is to record the kick again and then cut up all hits and place them by hand!?

Although I hve a feeling, this is the way to go!

Another way I'm thinkin about is if there is a way to apply EQ just when the kick hits. Then it would be possible to have one EQ setting when the kick strikes and one for the bass in between and then compress the low freqs in some kind!? Maby I'm way out, doing bicycling here? Any experience somebody?

/Cojo

Track the midi kick to audio.

Line it up with the stereo mix kick.

Use the same processing as original and balance it against the stereo mix.

Print it and go home.

Its really that simple.
Old 24th January 2006
  #11
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Cojo's Avatar
 

Thanks for all the help!

Ok, I did some test mixes last night and this is what I came up with.

The best way was to first copy the stereo mix to another track, phase reverse it and cut out all but the kick. Then mix this together so I got a new mix without the kick. Then I took the kick track again, now with normal phase, eq'd and compressed it to my taste and mixed it all together once again. Not perfect but much then before and much better control over the kick then by just eq it.

Thanks for all the help!

/Cojo
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