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Trying to record amp direct(echo audiofire users plz help) Audio Interfaces
Old 23rd December 2010
  #1
Registered User
 

Trying to record amp direct(echo audiofire users plz help)

Currently my signal chain is like this:
Guitar - > amp(suhr badger) -> weber minimass(fully attenuated to provide speaker load)->echo audiofire 4->redwirez impulse in cubase sx3

problems are on two fronts:
(1) input level( it is very very low ) not sure why this is, at first i thought it might be the attenuator but then i plugged my guitar straight into the audiofire's input and it didnt help the level, the input also seems to be dying out realy fast....i tried guitar direct to audiofire into amplitube and even on the heaviest patches i wasnt getting much gain( was more like a blues patch)...notes dies out sharply as well....audiofire users please help
(2) the tone im getting is pretty crappy, ive tried a few different mics and distance on the impulses, cant seem to get anything decent...now this may relate to the first point of low input signal, or that i just havent had the eureka moment where i figure out whats wrong

would realy appreciate any help on this....ive heard that people get very good results recording their amps direct.....if there are better solutions to recording amps direct, id like to try those too


cheers and happy holidaysheh
Old 23rd December 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 

What kind of output does the attenuator have? Which input are you using on your interface? When you plugged the guitar in direct, which input did you use? I'd say to just try the guitar direct into the amp modeler and see if you can get a workable signal there, then try adding in the amp.

Can you be more specific about your signal chain... 1/4 TS hi-z instrument level to 1/4 TS DI input, for example, instead of "->".

What does the guitar sound like plugged into the amp? (is it a combo amp or just a head?) with no interface or computer involved, and the speakers up... does it sound right there?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #3
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Jerrick's Avatar
 

Do you have anything else that you know is working perfectly and can test your inputs with? A mic or something that you can test the two preamps with and a Line out source that can test the two line ins on the back of the audiofire. Id also make sure nothing is being padded and check the other basic settings.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #4
Gear Nut
 

The descriptions you're giving sound more like an active pickup in your guitar that's got a dying 9v battery.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #5
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb4t2 View Post
What kind of output does the attenuator have? Which input are you using on your interface? When you plugged the guitar in direct, which input did you use? I'd say to just try the guitar direct into the amp modeler and see if you can get a workable signal there, then try adding in the amp.

Can you be more specific about your signal chain... 1/4 TS hi-z instrument level to 1/4 TS DI input, for example, instead of "->".

What does the guitar sound like plugged into the amp? (is it a combo amp or just a head?) with no interface or computer involved, and the speakers up... does it sound right there?
Ok Let me try and give all the information
Guitar: Tom anderson droptop classic(passive pickups)
Amp: Suhr Badger 18 amp head
Cables:all cables Gepco cables from lavaman(all 1/4" standard guitar/instrument cables)
Input used on interface: input 3 which is an analog line input

Plugged into the amp direct i get a beautiful tone, from bluesy to realy heavy tones.....the cabinet i use is an avatar 1x12...

ofcourse when i connect to the interface, i take the speaker out from the amp into the weber minimass and take the line out from the minimass.

Using the guitar straight into interface and using the amp modeler,i still get a weak tone...however when i use the line6 toneport ux1 and connect my guitar directly the tone is fine and can get really heavy...so i guess there is something on the echo audiofire that i need to adjust in terms of settings....

the echo is firewire powered and the line6 is usb powered...my computer is a quadcore with 4 gb ram, asus p5k motherboard

let me know if i cna provide any more information...thanks
cheers
Old 23rd December 2010
  #6
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrick View Post
Do you have anything else that you know is working perfectly and can test your inputs with? A mic or something that you can test the two preamps with and a Line out source that can test the two line ins on the back of the audiofire. Id also make sure nothing is being padded and check the other basic settings.
unfortunately i have nothing else....i could try another guitar, but im pretty sure the problem is not my guitar because straight into the amp(playing through the avatar 1x12 cabinet) the tone is beautiful with no problems

also what do u mean by padded?

cheers
Old 23rd December 2010
  #7
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcolbeyx View Post
The descriptions you're giving sound more like an active pickup in your guitar that's got a dying 9v battery.
thats actually a great description of the tone....very succintly put...unfortunately my pickups are passive...but that brings up the interesting point that it might be something to do with power somewhere...
Old 23rd December 2010
  #8
Registered User
 

ok i got through to the echo guys(who were very helpful by the way) they advised me that the audiofire line input has about 20 db of attenuation(or padded headroom) that might be causing this, they suggested i try the mic preamp universal input so once im home im gonna try that and report back as wel
Old 23rd December 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Jerrick's Avatar
 

Yes, when I run my guitar into my motu I always go through the preamp, if I try to run the guitar straight into a line in, the sound is just like you described.

Im kind of surprised the webers line out doesnt just go from line out - line in without a problem. If anything just run that through one of the two preamps on the echo.

I wouldnt worry about your pickups, ive used all sorts of passive pickups and combinations with amp sims and they have all been able to drive all my amp sims. The pickups on my tele are awfully noisy though.
Old 24th December 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Well, that's the question, really, what kind of output does the weber have? Is it an instrument level unbalanced, line level balanced, what?

To the OP, thanks for the details, but can you provide more? The type of input and the type of output for each section of the chain. Not the size of the connector, the actual balanced or unbalanced, line level or instrument level....
Old 24th December 2010
  #11
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb4t2 View Post
Well, that's the question, really, what kind of output does the weber have? Is it an instrument level unbalanced, line level balanced, what?

To the OP, thanks for the details, but can you provide more? The type of input and the type of output for each section of the chain. Not the size of the connector, the actual balanced or unbalanced, line level or instrument level....
i'm actually not sure about this, all the cables are standard instrument cables, do you think a change might help?..i cant comment on the weber because they NEVER reply to emails....but it says line out so it should be line level....
Old 24th December 2010
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Okay, let's get down to some more details lol

The echo audiofire4 has two types of analog inputs, the two on the front, which are combo XLR (mic pre) and 1/4TS (DI) jacks. When plugging your guitar straight into the interface, you need to plug it in to input 1 or 2, set to instrument (if possible). You were plugging a guitar (hi-z, unbalanced) into a line level (low-z, balanced) input, that's why it sounded crappy when you used it direct. Try it in the front as echo suggested.

For the MiniMass, which output are you using? It appears to have a speaker-level output ("Output") and a line-level output ("Line Out"). You should be using the Line Out, which is probably balanced, so you'll probably want to use a TRS cable, not a regular instrument cable. Then run this to input 3 as suggested.

I'm not sure why the minimass>echo connection isn't working out properly. Try a TRS cable instead and see if that helps.

Also, I'd try plugging the guitar straight into the combo jack on the audiofire first, getting to know the amp modeling software and getting a good handle on how it works, which patches sound good, etc. Eliminate that as a variable and then try to work the amp/attenuator rig into it.

Finally - amp modelers usually don't sound as good as a mic'd amp (usually>always?), so have realistic expectations. But it sounds like you're having an input level problem.
Old 24th December 2010
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Trying to record amp direct(echo audiofire users plz help)

Since you have the mini mass why not just track with a mic at low levels?? I have one and love the fact that I can get a hot sound out of my amp without being loud
Old 24th December 2010
  #14
Registered User
 

ok guys the problem is fixed...thanks for all the great suggestions and all the help...

i finally figured out the problem, i'm still not getting the tones close to how good id like but the tones there to be had...ps care to share any nice IR combos that you found to work?

it was a problem with the attenuation due to the line level input on the audiofire, i plugged into the universal input with the mic pre and voila, got all my gain and volume back...im trying to dial in a combination of some impulses and room reverb to get a tone close to what i hear in my room:D

thanks for all the help guys, much appreciatedheh
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