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A Thankyou and a vocal question Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 22nd December 2010
  #1
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A Thankyou and a vocal question

Hi Gearslutz,

Firstly a thankyou to alot of guys that has helped me out, it's coming to the end of the creation of my bands debut E.P and it is sounding awsome thanks to alot of you guys help.

One last question, I really like this guy's vocal style / effects..


YouTube - Solution 45 - Lethean Tears.wmv

Can anyone accuratley tell me what effects he is using? it sounds like a plate to me but whenever I use a plate on my lead vox it just dissapears into mudd or becomes weak in the mix. A Basic Large works ok but it still sounds really dry just a bit echoey..
Old 22nd December 2010
  #2
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Hi Buddy,

The vocals have a lot going on for them don't they. If you're unsuccessful with a plate and finding it's becoming too muddy, try by setting up the plate as an FX send rather than a plug-in insert (assuming you're using plugs) and use a high pass filter up to 200Hz, should clear the Reverb up massively.

There is a quick delay in parts of the verse, maybe set to quavers (8th notes), it's double tracked in places so it sounds thicker, panned center and blended in to sound fatter. There sounds like there's either a strange chorus effect on the voice, or the use of Autotune, could be the use of both. It's not as crazy as many records, and actually sounds quite nice in this.

You can hear the 'electronic' values of it though. Listen carefully...

Hope this helps
Old 22nd December 2010
  #3
Deleted 6ccb844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jampottt View Post
Hi Buddy,

The vocals have a lot going on for them don't they. If you're unsuccessful with a plate and finding it's becoming too muddy, try by setting up the plate as an FX send rather than a plug-in insert (assuming you're using plugs) and use a high pass filter up to 200Hz, should clear the Reverb up massively.

There is a quick delay in parts of the verse, maybe set to quavers (8th notes), it's double tracked in places so it sounds thicker, panned center and blended in to sound fatter. There sounds like there's either a strange chorus effect on the voice, or the use of Autotune, could be the use of both. It's not as crazy as many records, and actually sounds quite nice in this.

You can hear the 'electronic' values of it though. Listen carefully...

Hope this helps
Hi Jampott,

I'm using Protools 8 LE, So I have just been adding effects to tracks, So if I added a Plate verb on the track and then put in a HPF on the lead track with a dead centre pan then double tracked it and added some verb and delay/ bit of chorus to the second track and then pan 100 L and 100 R I should get some sort of desired result?

Or should I keep it all dead centre?
Old 22nd December 2010
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Hi Jampott,

I'm using Protools 8 LE, So I have just been adding effects to tracks, So if I added a Plate verb on the track and then put in a HPF on the lead track with a dead centre pan then double tracked it and added some verb and delay/ bit of chorus to the second track and then pan 100 L and 100 R I should get some sort of desired result?

Or should I keep it all dead centre?
Hi Danny,

I've not had the joys of using PT yet, so I wouldn't know how you'd do it. In Cubase however, you can right click and add an FX track, of which you can assign a plug-in to.

Upon doing that I would assign the specific Reverb to that FX track and then open it up on the channel strip, altering the Reverb settings to the desired results first.

To give it the large reverb effect, you might want to try inserting a compressor on the Reverb FX. Then using the EQ take out the frequencies that appear to be clouding up the Reverb, these tend to be up to 200HZ, sometimes more.

I would never pan a double tracked vocal hard L and then pan the original vocal hard R. It would just sound strange I think. It works in the same way that parallel processing does, so you'll record the same part twice, both dead center, both with relatively same settings, and blend the double tracked vocal until you can hear it's thickened. You may need to reverse the phase.

When doing this though, take more of the effect off, otherwise you'll have too much of a build up. So your mixer may look like this

Lead Vox - C - 0db
Vox Doubled - C - -3db

just experiment and see what you get. Instead of double tracking, you could Artificially do it, be assigning a short delay to the Lead Vox.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #5
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jampottt View Post
Hi Danny,

I've not had the joys of using PT yet, so I wouldn't know how you'd do it. In Cubase however, you can right click and add an FX track, of which you can assign a plug-in to.

Upon doing that I would assign the specific Reverb to that FX track and then open it up on the channel strip, altering the Reverb settings to the desired results first.

To give it the large reverb effect, you might want to try inserting a compressor on the Reverb FX. Then using the EQ take out the frequencies that appear to be clouding up the Reverb, these tend to be up to 200HZ, sometimes more.

I would never pan a double tracked vocal hard L and then pan the original vocal hard R. It would just sound strange I think. It works in the same way that parallel processing does, so you'll record the same part twice, both dead center, both with relatively same settings, and blend the double tracked vocal until you can hear it's thickened. You may need to reverse the phase.

When doing this though, take more of the effect off, otherwise you'll have too much of a build up. So your mixer may look like this

Lead Vox - C - 0db
Vox Doubled - C - -3db

just experiment and see what you get. Instead of double tracking, you could Artificially do it, be assigning a short delay to the Lead Vox.
Thanks Jampottt

It turns out on his record there are 10 - 15 tracks of vocals panned across the whole spectrum but that's all the info I can scoop, I have 6 vocal tracks but it sounds like he has got phase variance.. But it is phased on purpose as though he is using autotune like you said (I will never use autotune or pitch correction).. I tried your approach and it didn't work out I'm afraid, it either sounded like I was in a bath or when I tried it on the second track it just got lost underneath the other track or smothered it when I turned it up.

I duplicated the lead track and added some chorus to the main panned 50 50 and another track panned 100 100 tucked behind it tighter compressed and leveled with d-verb vocal plate and and some more chorus and it seems to have done the trick..

I have 5 other tracks panned accross the spectrum to fill every corner so to speak..

It sounds wicked But still not as overly produced as his.. any other tips or tricks out there?

I'm trying to get it to sound fantastic quality without being a cheat and still able to pull it off live.. I might be a dreamer
Old 23rd December 2010
  #6
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Thanks Jampottt

It turns out on his record there are 10 - 15 tracks of vocals panned across the whole spectrum but that's all the info I can scoop, I have 6 vocal tracks but it sounds like he has got phase variance.. But it is phased on purpose as though he is using autotune like you said (I will never use autotune or pitch correction).. I tried your approach and it didn't work out I'm afraid, it either sounded like I was in a bath or when I tried it on the second track it just got lost underneath the other track or smothered it when I turned it up.

I duplicated the lead track and added some chorus to the main panned 50 50 and another track panned 100 100 tucked behind it tighter compressed and leveled with d-verb vocal plate and and some more chorus and it seems to have done the trick..

I have 5 other tracks panned accross the spectrum to fill every corner so to speak..

It sounds wicked But still not as overly produced as his.. any other tips or tricks out there?

I'm trying to get it to sound fantastic quality without being a cheat and still able to pull it off live.. I might be a dreamer
Well it definetley sounds smoother and better balanced, but I just don't have that pure fluid shine he has.. Can anyone assist?

If I posted my track would that help?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #7
Gear Head
 
BrianW's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Well it definetley sounds smoother and better balanced, but I just don't have that pure fluid shine he has.. Can anyone assist?

If I posted my track would that help?
It might. Have you tried putting your verb(s) & time-based fx on busses instead of as inserts in the vocal track itself?

Also, put some hp/lp filtering on your verb buss & play with eq'ing the verb itself to clean it up as you like.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #8
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
It might. Have you tried putting your verb(s) & time-based fx on busses instead of as inserts in the vocal track itself?

Also, put some hp/lp filtering on your verb buss & play with eq'ing the verb itself to clean it up as you like.
Hi Brian,

For some reason when I am using the HPF it is making the vox sound a little brittle at what freq should I be applying it?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #9
Registered User
I'm hearing a long delay that is perfectly matched to the beat ... try a 1/4 note delay with at least 4 repeats. Automate the levels to keep it unobtrusive in exposed parts.

A strong delay like this really adds to the sense of space and enhances the plate reverb. By having it perfectly timed, it isn't really perceived as a delay because drum hits etc cover up the obvious repeats.

I suspect this is the "pure fluid shine" that you are missing. The thing about long delays is that it almost introduces a chorus effect, because the pitch of the vocal isn't steady, so the delays introduce interesting pitch variations. Of course you can also apply a very subtle modulation to the delay as well - around 0.5 Hz.
Old 24th December 2010
  #10
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Thank's Kiwi and merry Xmas to everyone It turns out it's all in the panning. This is my first ambitious vocal shot so I was not used to dealing with 15 tracks of vocals, but I found some tech notes from a mix of one of my favorite bands. If you are used to tracking and panning guitars, you can just follow in the foot steps and do the same with the vox then add a duplicate track to underline the effects.

I have managed to somehow do what the guy has done without sounding like a robot, but I don't use autotune cause I can keep in tune

I'm so happy right now this demo has been coming for ten years now and for once it is feeling worth it
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