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How were drum samples handled in the 80' and 90's Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 22nd December 2010
  #1
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Slap Back's Avatar
 

How were drum samples handled in the 80' and 90's

I'm just wondering by what sort of technique the drum samples were implemented on 90's and earlier metallica albums..
Old 23rd December 2010
  #2
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Slap Back's Avatar
 

bump...

surely, someone here knows how sample replacement/augmentation was done during this period. Maybe I didn't word my question well enough.

I'm only assuming that daws were not used for this purpose until later on...

Am I posting in the wrong forum?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #3
Many were handles using Fairlight's, Atari's and Akai hardware samplers to name a few.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slap Back View Post
bump...

surely, someone here knows how sample replacement/augmentation was done during this period. Maybe I didn't word my question well enough.

I'm only assuming that daws were not used for this purpose until later on...

Am I posting in the wrong forum?
A lot of people used the AMS 1580.

Some people used the Akai S1000 or the SPX 90 in a pinch. Also for a time there was a Forat F-16 around as well.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #5
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Colonel Blues's Avatar
Do not forget the famous Drumulator and others beatboxes from E-Mu !
They were syncronized to audio with Midi Time Code and other SMPTE clocks…
Old 23rd December 2010
  #6
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ams
Old 23rd December 2010
  #7
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There were a couple of samplers that could hold 1-2 seconds worth of audio and then trigger that sample upon an audio input. Which was the original drum replacement as far as I'm aware.

I dont think there are any samples on the early metallica stuff. Or is there?

Drum "augmentation" only became common place when it became easy. Like 9-10 years ago.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #8
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Sonic Lush's Avatar
1995- assisted a producer who used a version of H3000 with sampling.

load a snare and a kick sample off DAT, trigger off 2", reprint, don't tell the band.

or if the drummer played the track poorly, hire so and so to come in after the band is gone to ghost the drums on the tune(s). don't tell the band.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #9
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Here's how we replaced snares in the early 80's. Two drumsticks taped across the top of a nicely tuned snare which is bottom & side mic'd. An Auratone speaker secured across the sticks, cone facing the snare head. Feed the snare track to the Auratone. The air blast plays the new snare. Drum replacement, early 80's style.heh
Old 23rd December 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
Here's how we replaced snares in the early 80's. Two drumsticks taped across the top of a nicely tuned snare which is bottom & side mic'd. An Auratone speaker secured across the sticks, cone facing the snare head. Feed the snare track to the Auratone. The air blast plays the new snare. Drum replacement, early 80's style.heh
if that's true, then that's AWESOME. gotta try that!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #11
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Sonic Lush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slap Back View Post
I'm just wondering by what sort of technique the drum samples were implemented on 90's and earlier metallica albums..
er, were you just wondering about Metallica albums only?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #12
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
Here's how we replaced snares in the early 80's. Two drumsticks taped across the top of a nicely tuned snare which is bottom & side mic'd. An Auratone speaker secured across the sticks, cone facing the snare head. Feed the snare track to the Auratone. The air blast plays the new snare. Drum replacement, early 80's style.heh
Hey- yer givin' away the classics!!!!!!!!heh

The first thing I saw that could trigger samples was the Emulator. Or maybe the AMS.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #13
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thedoner's Avatar
 

Yup, AMS DDL!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #14
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by r4uz View Post
if that's true, then that's AWESOME. gotta try that!
It actually works well if done right, and the planets are aligned. Here's an example that we did at the Record Plant, circa late '80. If memory serves, the live snare was very flabby and dead sounding, so we snapped it up with a piccolo. It tracked beautifully (at the speed of sound, actually), and added a nice high ring.
YouTube - SKAFISH
Old 23rd December 2010
  #15
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slap Back View Post
I'm just wondering by what sort of technique the drum samples were implemented on 90's and earlier metallica albums..
I don't think there was drum replacement on Metallica. They just eq'd the heck out of it from what they say.

Akai samplers were used BIG TIME from drums. Look up the Wendell.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #16
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Little know fact

In 1978 the Monsanto corporation made a robot Ringo starr with a cloned brain(they didn't have the technology to successfully clone an entire Ringo starr). It took one year for the brain to adjust to the robot body and 2 years to clean the rust off his chops. In 1981 the robot ringo (who had now taken the name Robo Offenbach Starr) started taking gigs as a session drummer under many aliases (his first work filling in on Bruce Springsteen's The River) and would later even stop using aliases and just preferred to have producers and engineers claim the work as a sampler.

A short list of non accredited works

The J Giles Band-Freeze Frame
Leo Sayer Have You Ever Been in Love
Slayer-Hell Awaits
Wham-Make It Big
John Fogarty-Centerfield
Scoolly D-Self Titled
Grateful Dead-In The Dark
Ringo Starr-Vertical Man
Gerardo-Mo'Ritmo
Third Bass Derelicts of Dialect


As well as many others and Various Kentucky Fried Chicken Commercials.


Just wanted everybody to be in the know.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #17
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Beyersound's Avatar
There was also sidechaining into D-Drum or other premium drum brain channels to trigger the samples in the late 80s/early 90s. I used to do it live for sample enhancement on big rock shows as well.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #18
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
I don't think there was drum replacement on Metallica. They just eq'd the heck out of it from what they say.

Akai samplers were used BIG TIME from drums. Look up the Wendell.
it's a well known fact that Bob Rock and Randy Staub had samples on the Black Album. As well as the subsequent albums Rock produced for them.

I believe the Black Album came out in '91?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #19
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
It actually works well if done right, and the planets are aligned. Here's an example that we did at the Record Plant, circa late '80. If memory serves, the live snare was very flabby and dead sounding, so we snapped it up with a piccolo. It tracked beautifully (at the speed of sound, actually), and added a nice high ring.
YouTube - SKAFISH
that dudes nose is huge
Old 23rd December 2010
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by tincan View Post
it's a well known fact that Bob Rock and Randy Staub had samples on the Black Album. As well as the subsequent albums Rock produced for them.

I believe the Black Album came out in '91?
I remember the Bob Clearmountain Drums sample libraries were definitely for sale in the mid 80's. I remember everyone talking about it then.

Sample replacement and enhancement really gained its foothold in mixing here in NYC in the 80's because so many of the top mixers of the time were doing alternate club and dance remixes for the hit songs of the day. Replacing and enhancing the drum sounds became the norm. Basically it was something asked alot in the sessions, as well as flying chorus vocal parts around with samplers and retuning vocal parts with an H3000.

The good ole days.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #21
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popmann's Avatar
How were drum samples handled in the 80' and 90's

Real drums sound better. People would spend days dialing in the drum sound...between the mic placement and gates and eq and compression going to tape...you'd get it set and record the album's worth of drums.

There were audio to midi trigger units like the alesis d4...but, you have to remember this was a day when everyone was expected to know what they were doing-both drummer and engineer. Before digital made them both lazy.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #22
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos24 View Post
that dudes nose is huge
Haha. Yes it is!

Regarding the digi samples, a few years later, late 80's, we were replacing from an Alesis HR16 with some sort of audio trigger/MIDI thing. I remember it being a royal PITA, with generally poor results, and having to punch individual hits that mis-triggered. It's a wonder we ever bothered, but new tech was new tech and we felt we had to be there pushing things. It got to where we'd spend an hour looking for a good tamb sample, and nobody would suggest just playing one live into a mic.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #23
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
It got to where we'd spend an hour looking for a good tamb sample, and nobody would suggest just playing one live into a mic.
Amazing, right?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #24
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
A lot of people used the AMS 1580.

This.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #25
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
Here's how we replaced snares in the early 80's. Two drumsticks taped across the top of a nicely tuned snare which is bottom & side mic'd. An Auratone speaker secured across the sticks, cone facing the snare head. Feed the snare track to the Auratone. The air blast plays the new snare. Drum replacement, early 80's style.heh
and This -- except instead of two drumsticks I always used the plastic packing ring that surrounded a new reel of 2" tape.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #26
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The Wendel. Some of the bigshots in LA around late 80's early 90's seemed to be using it.
I remember it working quite well actually.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #27
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lots of 80s records that sound sampled were not, it was a the gated verb thing. Which every still loves
Old 23rd December 2010
  #28
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

i didn´t record in the 80s, but in the 90s:
ams of course and a lot of alesis D4
i also recognized people overdubbing snare with a synth
Old 23rd December 2010
  #29
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Jeancab's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
A lot of people used the AMS 1580.
Some people used the Akai S1000 or the SPX 90 in a pinch..
yes, and later, the delay/sampler T.C. 2290. Great unit.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #30
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Slap Back's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Lush View Post
er, were you just wondering about Metallica albums only?
Just as a jumping off point...metallica is what I'm most familiar with. The drums on Load and Reload are sick and tight; not squashed to death and very organic sounding (IMO). I'd really like to know specifically how it was done, considering the great quality. Ive heard that some of their 80's stuff used samples too, so ditto on that as well..

Thanks for the many replies. That gives me lots of research to do.
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