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New thread reporting function - your input requested... Lets clean GS up! Condenser Microphones
Old 21st December 2010
  #31
Gear Guru
 

there should be some sort of limit or at least tabs kept on the reporting itself.

people who are constantly flagging stuff could be doing so as a means of being obnoxious or as part of a vendetta

Quote:
"you must not annoy other people
and if you are other people,
you must not be too easily annoyed"
Old 21st December 2010
  #32
Gear Addict
 
lane thaw's Avatar
 

Many of us are industry professionals and this is not a hobby. We try to chime in when appropriate. I like the fact that many "heavy" industry professionals visit, and without a doubt hate when they are treated with disrespect. The outcome is they stop visiting and posting, so yes I agree with Jules - this stupidity causes us to lose our depth of knowledge based contributors.

There is never a time for bad manners and people who have that type of notoriety for their rudeness are just bullys. Case in point, Fletcher just called me ignorant for suggesting a poster to try a Lawson 251 over the Lawson 47 (I own both) - He then pimped the product of the company he worked for. Point being, I doubt he would insult me to my face, does not use his real name, and simply insults for shock value.

Point is, I like Gearslutz as a reference and the interaction I have with newbies and seasoned pros alike and although technology constantly changes, good manners never go out of style.
Old 21st December 2010
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Kingtone's Avatar
 

i dont think JUST disrespect to a 'veteran' should be flagged, But disrespect to ANYONE should be flagged.
There are ways of saying anything in the right way. Just go read some of Gregory Scott's posts (from Kush) . That guy has an incredible talent for being polite and respectful but still get his point across. It always impresses me and i try to say things in better terms like he does. There are many folks like that on here, it is a model that should be followed. You can disagree without being offensive or disrespectful. AND that should go for so called 'veterans' attitudes as well.

I think the whole disrespect/rudeness/aggressiveness thing could be all put into one flag, regardless of who it is.
Old 21st December 2010
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
so does that mean the urinating monkey emoticon goes dfegad???? LOLZ

how about this is it harassing??
Old 21st December 2010
  #35
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Kingtone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
so does that mean the urinating monkey emoticon goes dfegad???? LOLZ

how about this is it harassing??

you have a point! heh
I think any of these things can be used in jest and fun without having to become disrespectful to anyone.
I could have taken your comment to be kinda sarcastic (and maybe it was meant that way) but you did write LOLZ after it, which at least shows a better tone... so I didnt take it that way.
I personally think those smilies are funny and a bit of fun, but like anything, can be used in a sarcastic and disrespectful way.
I think, as the tone of the forum comes up, more people can learn how to write even the most contradictory views in a way that at least is respectful to each other.
Old 21st December 2010
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
listen no one should go out of their way to be a "richard head" but then again censorship sucks..

i feel like we do a good job moderating ourselves considering we are people from around the globe and of all age groups, races, sexes, proclivities etc etc
Old 21st December 2010
  #37
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lane thaw View Post
Point being, I doubt he would insult me to my face, does not use his real name, and simply insults for shock value..
I met Fletcher once. He introduced himself as "Fletcher" and was just as outspoken and blunt in person as he was on-line.

As implied in my quote above, I think it would be unfortunate if we 'cleaned up' Gearslutz to the degree that people could not 'be themselves' even if the selves in question were somewhat abrasive or annoying to others.

I am not suggesting a double standard for the Knowledgeable. I am just saying we should not be too easily annoyed. You never know whose advice is going to be the key piece.
Old 21st December 2010
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Kingtone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
listen no one should go out of their way to be a "richard head" but then again censorship sucks..

i feel like we do a good job moderating ourselves considering we are people from around the globe and of all age groups, races, sexes, proclivities etc etc
I do agree that censorship is not ideal. But being that this is actually a privately owned forum, it is not like your right to say what you believe is being legally repressed. You still would have many available avenues to state your opinion or belief, but I think the point is HOW it is stated.

I do agree, in the most part, we sometimes do a good job of moderating ourselves.. but I have noticed in the past few years a tendency of the site sliding downwards in tone and commentary. You are right in that we are a people from around the globe with a LOT of things differing, and that is why it is a great idea to keep guidelines to keep the common ground our main approach. ie.. our love for gear.
There are a few other forums that do a great job of keeping a civil approach to one another, and I think GS could do well with going back in that direction. I have many friends who do not bother coming on here anymore due to the nonsense that Jules is trying to filter out somewhat.
Old 21st December 2010
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtone View Post

you have a point! heh
I think any of these things can be used in jest and fun without having to become disrespectful to anyone.
I could have taken your comment to be kinda sarcastic (and maybe it was meant that way) but you did write LOLZ after it, which at least shows a better tone... so I didnt take it that way.
I personally think those smilies are funny and a bit of fun, but like anything, can be used in a sarcastic and disrespectful way.
I think, as the tone of the forum comes up, more people can learn how to write even the most contradictory views in a way that at least is respectful to each other.
exactly..it's always hard to tell intent on the internet

speaking face to face you have vocal inflection..visual cues and the word

on the phone you have inflection and word


here it's words and emoticons LOLZ
Old 21st December 2010
  #40
Lives for gear
 
mu6gr8's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Disrespect to an industry veteran contributor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
why should veterans like me be shielded from disrespect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
...there are scientific facts and there are opinions and taste.. i'm hard on people who distort facts because there are kids learning here...
This merits some contemplation. One one hand, everyone should be entitled to respect and common courtesy, so we veterans shouldn't necessarily be entitled to *special* treatment. On the other hand, if we don't stick around here, who is going to help the kids distill the facts (as well as tips & techniques) from the misinformation?

Recently Shipley and Brauer were insulted by rude posters, and more or less said to heck with GS, we're gone; good luck, figure it out on your own. At least that's my interpretation of their exits.

It's a shame to lose marquee vets, so maybe it does make sense to be aware of the insults and disrespect before they drive away members.
Old 21st December 2010
  #41
Gear Addict
 
Empora's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Suitcase View Post
Maybe we need a subforum for purchase recommendations?

It seems like I see the "Recommend a mic under $500" type posts a lot, like the "work in progress" area, but just for gear?
Yes! Great idea.

Also, good on the moderators for trying to make this a better place! I agree with others that too much censorship is a bad thing, however something is needed as I think certain reoccurring themes are getting tiresome...
Old 21st December 2010
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mu6gr8 View Post
This merits some contemplation. One one hand, everyone should be entitled to respect and common courtesy, so we veterans shouldn't necessarily be entitled to *special* treatment. On the other hand, if we don't stick around here, who is going to help the kids distill the facts (as well as tips & techniques) from the misinformation?

Recently Shipley and Brauer were insulted by rude posters, and more or less said to heck with GS, we're gone; good luck, figure it out on your own. At least that's my interpretation of their exits.

It's a shame to lose marquee vets, so maybe there it does make sense to be aware of the insults and disrespect before they drive away members.
firstly..i don't understand being a "hidden entity" when people don't have somewhere a name or link to who they are for all to see

secondly.. as service providers we all dealt with egotistical ignorant clients and had to kiss ass at some time or other..it's PART OF OUR JOBS

so digging here or there shouldn't be the end of the world especially if you have a wildly divergent opinions or techniques and don't correlate that with the success you garnered with it by omitting your name..not saying you still wouldn't take a hit

listen there are "famous" engineer/mixers where i hate their techniques and think they are heavy handed hacks..and i'm sure people say the same about me..we are artists ourselves..i'm not going to live die or sulk away because someone dissed my work..the only people i have to make happy are my clients
Old 21st December 2010
  #43
Lives for gear
 

New thread reporting function - your input requested... Lets clean GS up!

FWIW - from a long time lurker, recent poster...

I think vague, ambiguous guidelines are worse than none - unless the mods are willing to issue WARNINGS prior to INFRACTIONS.

I think a Warnings System is definitely more appropriate if the grounds for infractions are not completely clear in the TOS Guidelines and Forum Rules.

I think the mods get frustrated and are quick to issue infractions to people who genuinely were unaware of the issue - and I've seen cases where there was no clear TOS that lead to the infraction other than a knee jerk response.

Also as for beating a dead horse - sometimes that's the only time new members enter a discussion that they had not previously had the opportunity to voice an opinion on.

So what if a subject or thread is beaten to death - eventually all threads give out to new discussion.

Although bickering may be frustrating when devolved into playground taunts I find the mods generally don't look at each users behavior prior - 9 times out of 10 bickering is the result of a forum member who has a history of fight picking and usually they get banned over time.

However in the process I've seen good forum members get sucked into someone else's personal grudge.

I do agree about Zero Tolerance for ANY Hateful Posting - be it targeted at a persons race, sexual orientation or political views. This should maybe even extend into agism both young and old - it goes both ways.

Respect is Respect - Period.

Speaking of politics- it's nearly impossible to have a real conversation about the state of the current music industry without bleeding into discussions about anti-piracy legislation, net neutrality, etc.

So what to do about that?
Old 21st December 2010
  #44
If people are going to be infracted and punished for various behaviors, it's only fair to let people know precisely what the rules are. Moderators can still maintain flexibility, even with posted rules.

But I would also urge a rededication to an attempt to be fair and even-handed by moderatorswho have, at times, appeared to some to deliver punishment unevenly and with little apparent regard for the severity of worse offenses in the same thread.

It can be enormously frustrating to be infracted for behavior one didn't know was prohibited -- or which is commonly left unpunished -- sometimes in the previous or very next post.
Old 21st December 2010
  #45
Lives for gear
 

New thread reporting function - your input requested... Lets clean GS up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mu6gr8
Quote:
why should veterans like me be shielded from disrespect?
Quote:
...there are scientific facts and there are opinions and taste.. i'm hard on people who distort facts because there are kids learning here...
This merits some contemplation. One one hand, everyone should be entitled to respect and common courtesy, so we veterans shouldn't necessarily be entitled to *special* treatment. On the other hand, if we don't stick around here, who is going to help the kids distill the facts (as well as tips & techniques) from the misinformation?

Recently Shipley and Brauer were insulted by rude posters, and more or less said to heck with GS, we're gone; good luck, figure it out on your own. At least that's my interpretation of their exits.

It's a shame to lose marquee vets, so maybe there it does make sense to be aware of the insults and disrespect before they drive away members.
I think a Pros Only section might be nice which requires real names of anyone who wants to Post in that section directly. Otherwise the posts are subject to approval by a moderator. Everyone can read, but posting is earned. Maybe 2500 posts and no infractions? I don't know.

Many of the most successful professionals I know currently working refuse to even look at GS for anything other than comic relief and absurdist humor.

Mbox guys telling seasoned pros an mxl mic is as good or better than a telefunken 251 is nuts, but then getting rude about it is just unacceptable.
Old 21st December 2010
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo View Post
I think a Pros Only section might be nice which requires real names of anyone who wants to Post in that section directly. Otherwise the posts are subject to approval by a moderator. Everyone can read, but posting is earned. Maybe 2500 posts and no infractions? I don't know.

Many of the most successful professionals I know currently working refuse to even look at GS for anything other than comic relief and absurdist humor.

Mbox guys telling seasoned pros an mxl mic is as good or better than a telefunken 251 is nuts, but then getting rude about it is just unacceptable.
they do that because there are so many levels of engineering today.."when i was a kid {LOLZ} " to be in a professional studio , one had to know audio inside out..you had to be the best on the block to sit in the chair..

with DAW technology anyone can purport to be an audio engineer ..and some old schoolers take umbrage at that especially when they feel snubbed

to me it's great so many people love music and now try to make and record it..it's like music and recording are as pedestrian as eating beans and rice..to me THAT's COOL!!! and i want to help support people who earnestly want to learn
Old 21st December 2010
  #47
Lives for gear
 

New thread reporting function - your input requested... Lets clean GS up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma

they do that because there are so many levels of engineering today.."when i was a kid {LOLZ} " to be in a professional studio , one had to know audio inside out..you had to be the best on the block to sit in the chair..

with DAW technology anyone can purport to be an audio engineer ..and some old schoolers take umbrage at that especially when they feel snubbed

to me it's great so many people love music and now try to make and record it..it's like music and recording are as pedestrian as eating beans and rice..to me THAT's COOL!!! and i want to help support people who earnestly want to learn
I totally agree with you - but I also think that they can learn in earnest without being rude and mouthing off.
Old 21st December 2010
  #48
Good feedback so far!

The report system will have a warning option prior to "infraction points"
(we issue warnings all the time, it's standard for minor or first time / borderline issues)

At the moment the forum is set to 3 points and the forum software "auto bans" that member.

There will be a "message to member" option (again we do use that now) but folks should bear in mind that moderators are often not in the mood to take the time to write lengthy "reasons why" to time wasting, thread disrupting rule breakers.

What do you think of an "rule breaker page" where it's possible to see all the current infractions. I ask this only because a) other forums do this with some success and b) it would cure the "what happens to xxxxxx member?" mysteries (as it would be clear to see that person had been warned 3 times for posting political threads and amassed the 3 infraction points that finally got them banned. People could follow the moderation warnings / "requests to stop" etc.
Good idea? Bad idea?

Sincere thanks folks.

Btw, the points about charging for forum accesss were way off topic, won't be happening and were removed!
Old 21st December 2010
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
LOL mine

N/A 12th March 2010
06:18 PM Never 1 Inappropriate Language Jules
People with handicaps...
5th June 2008
02:29 PM Never 0 Inappropriate Language Jules
Private 25th September 2007
05:14 AM Never 1 Insulted Other Member(s) Jules

i guess i have one to go and i'm gone
Old 21st December 2010
  #50
What about dealer / gear pimp posting issues? (dealers feel free to contribute) they can annoy people sometimes.

And perhaps a "bogus / dual / covert registration" report option? Sometimes people feel they can spot someone covertly trashing someone or some company or a banned member doubling back with a new ID...?
Old 21st December 2010
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
on the gear issue it's a society of merit..post a shill at your own risk..i know i dissed and became later a "friend" of a manufacturer here

i see no problem in shilling gear or services as long as the people who PAY to advertise don' feel cheated

on the issue of censorship ..i'm with the ACLU and american press ..rather to support the fringe nuts freedom to express than to erode rights

but again it's not a democracy here ...
Old 21st December 2010
  #52
Lives for gear
 
John Suitcase's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
LOL mine

N/A 12th March 2010
06:18 PM Never 1 Inappropriate Language Jules
People with handicaps... 5th June 2008
02:29 PM Never 0 Inappropriate Language Jules
Private 25th September 2007
05:14 AM Never 1 Insulted Other Member(s) Jules

i guess i have one to go and i'm gone
Shouldn't (do they already?) infractions have some time element, say three infractions inside of 6 months, or whatever works?
Old 21st December 2010
  #53
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

To me Jules . . some of the sales guys are getting over the top. The 'we sell gear' sigs / jpg 'signs' / multiple links / 'contact me 24 hours a day' blah blah sigs / different color text 'signs' / different size text 'signs' / even imbedding you tube videos etc etc is pushing the limits. And of course many of them just post in threads and talk about / recommend gear they 'just happen to sell'. It's used car salesman tactics. A simple one line signature is one thing for sales guys . . but when does all this get to be too much and too damn obvious? Even some salesman's avatars are 'signs'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
What about dealer / gear pimp posting issues? (dealers feel free to contribute)

And perhaps a "bogus / dual / covert registration" report option? Sometimes people feel they can spot someone covertly trashing someone or some company or a banned member doubling back with a new ID...?
Old 21st December 2010
  #54
Gear Addict
 
Lorddiagram's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
What about dealer / gear pimp posting issues? (dealers feel free to contribute) they can annoy people sometimes.
This annoys me. When i saw that a dealer had incorporated their company logo in to their profile image it made me want to unbookmark this site.

lD
Old 21st December 2010
  #55
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Mike . . wasn't it Groucho who said he did not want to be a member of any place that would have him as a member? I have had a red button underneath my name for years after I was called to task a few times. I don't know what it means but I have an idea. I'm not sure I want to be a member of a place that would have you OR me as a member! *smile*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
LOL mine

N/A 12th March 2010
06:18 PM Never 1 Inappropriate Language Jules
People with handicaps... 5th June 2008
02:29 PM Never 0 Inappropriate Language Jules
Private 25th September 2007
05:14 AM Never 1 Insulted Other Member(s) Jules

i guess i have one to go and i'm gone
Old 21st December 2010
  #56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
LOL mine

N/A 12th March 2010
06:18 PM Never 1 Inappropriate Language Jules
People with handicaps... 5th June 2008
02:29 PM Never 0 Inappropriate Language Jules
Private 25th September 2007
05:14 AM Never 1 Insulted Other Member(s) Jules

i guess i have one to go and i'm gone
Yeah your debute here was peppered with off color locker room topics. You were warned countless times by myself (prior to the infraction system got rolling) but seemed unable to keep a lid on it and kept going!
If a mod gives you one more infraction point - you are toast!

heh
Old 21st December 2010
  #57
Lives for gear
 
Big_Bang's Avatar
 

GS is a place I come daily, like picking up the morning paper or something... Its become a habbit, tastes fine with coffee heh

I love getting the scoops and the rumors! No biggie if manufacturers post news, or people publicising their own studios, ideas, songs, loves and hates!

There is a place for press releases, and what better place than here to get first hand news and discuss? Like recently when Apogee Symphony pics were found and posted before an official release, wow! great threads with an extremely rich environment of thought, covering many fields of AE from various countries and continents etc etc... delightful !

As long as there is a place for it, there is respect for respect itsef, and freedom of thought... let it be... live and let die... or any other Mcartney'esque pun!!

I'm all up for bumps... bumps are cool.

Bump-crazies often die out after 3rd or 4th bump, so what harm can they do?
Old 21st December 2010
  #58
Lives for gear
 
doug hazelrigg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
As for shielding veterans (only) from disrespect, I think everyone is entitled to respect.

--Ethan
+1, Amen, and every other applicable assertion

If this ONE tenet were scupulously followed here, it'd eliminate 90% of the problems

Personally, I wouldn't like to see "swear words" moderated against, as long as they're not directed at another Forum member
Old 21st December 2010
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
again it' s your site your rules but using the old english term for that which a child suckles from or a cow emits milk from, to me, isn't a reason for a point, nor is using the term my old cerebral palsy afflicted and our PC culture stricken gf called "differently abled people"

but again your site and rules..3 issues in 3 years..yeah prob should be a time limit but the groups loss if i'm gone..there are probably 3 to 4 dozen people here who have a firm grasp on audio recording science and techniques and the history to back it up
Old 21st December 2010
  #60
Lives for gear
 
mu6gr8's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo View Post
I think a Pros Only section might be nice which requires real names of anyone who wants to Post in that section directly. Otherwise the posts are subject to approval by a moderator. Everyone can read, but posting is earned. Maybe 2500 posts and no infractions? I don't know.

Many of the most successful professionals I know currently working refuse to even look at GS for anything other than comic relief and absurdist humor.

Mbox guys telling seasoned pros an mxl mic is as good or better than a telefunken 251 is nuts, but then getting rude about it is just unacceptable.
Interesting thought about a Pros Only section, but it doesn't appeal to me. I like the mixture of people across a wide range of experience--I continue to learn new stuff all the time, i.e. from some ignorant kid who has no idea how to hang a microphone, but thinks it sounds good anyway. I try it, it's different, and I add it to my palette for future use when I'll need that particular contrasting shade of color.

In an earlier post, Mike Tarsia wrote something to the effect of his best work not necessarily being related to the number of units sold, and he later added that he likes some pros' work, but not that of others. Those statements reinforce the fact that we were all unknowns before we "made it" and that art is highly subjective. Frankly, we were lucky enough to be in the right place *enough* times to finally find the right recording artist. Without the artist and the song, we'd still be undiscovered. Working on the right record can open doors, and the producers/mixers/engineers with the right instincts and people-skills become the chosen few who are able to forge careers with longevity. Nonetheless, you gotta start somewhere, and GS has the potential to be a potent resource for pros and amateurs alike.

The wide variety of characters is what makes Gearslutz entertaining and welcoming. I wish, however, that more members had enough self-control to treat others with common courtesy, respect and dignity--and to refrain from blathering about stuff that they honestly know nothing. There's a reason that God gave us two ears, but only one mouth. Some members come here to learn, and others are willing to help. Let's facilitate that exchange.
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